An Analogy, From Physical To Mind

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Age
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Re: An Analogy, From Physical To Mind

Post by Age »

surreptitious57 wrote: Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:00 pm
Age wrote:
Maybe you could clear up my misunderstanding here
It makes sense from within my own mind but maybe less so from within yours but one nevertheless does ones best to be understood
I do NOT have a "mind". How many times do I have to inform you of this?

From my perspective, what makes sense to you but not to me is the contradictory things you say, and, the things that you can not explain.
surreptitious57 wrote: Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:00 pmAlthough it is ultimately more important that it makes sense to me and only me but you can still try and understand as best you can
If it makes sense to you, and it fits in with EVERY thing else in the Universe, to make up one full and true big picture of ALL-THERE-IS, then great.

I just hope you will try a little harder to help me understand, from your perspective.

If, however, you do NOT yet have a full and true big picture of ALL-THERE-IS, then this just might be because of one of your views or opinions is not quite right and true.
Age
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Re: An Analogy, From Physical To Mind

Post by Age »

surreptitious57 wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:53 am
Age wrote:
By definition a closed mind is NOT open to any new things knowledge nor experiences
A closed mind can become open whenever it wants to as they change over time as they are not something that is set in stone
If this is what it IS, then that is what it MUST BE, to 'you'.

To me, the one and only OPEN Mind, is always OPEN. Human beings just can not see this with their closed thinking and views of things.
surreptitious57 wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:53 amThe state of a mind is therefore not absolute but organic and changes according to its perception of knowledge or experience
If this is what it IS, then that is what it MUST BE, to 'you'.

To me, the Mind is in a state of completely and utter OPENNESS. Human beings, however, are in a continual state of change. Closing and opening themselves with and from their thinking and views of things.
Age
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Re: An Analogy, From Physical To Mind

Post by Age »

surreptitious57 wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:00 am
Age wrote:
How do you know that in the future minds will be machine like more logical and less emotional

To me the Mind is absolutely logical and non emotional already
The Universe is absolutely logical and non emotional but the Universe and minds are entirely different phenomena though
This is another great example of 'you' proposing some thing as being true. You come across with a fixed opinion on this, and thus unable to view differently.

If as you propose the Universe and "minds" are entirely different phenomena, then explain exactly and fully how they are.

If you are unable to explain exactly and fully how they are, then how do you KNOW that they are entirely different phenomena?
surreptitious57 wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:00 amThe Universe is ALL THAT EXISTS but minds are an infinitesimal sub set of that and more specifically biological computers
If "minds" are completely invisible to the human eye, then how do you KNOW what they specifically ARE?

Could you be at all wrong about any thing you say here?

To me, the human brain is a biological computer. Thoughts are the output of those 'computers'.

The Mind is what allows human beings to imagine, conceive, design, plan, and create absolutely any thing. Creativity and creation comes from a truly OPEN Mind. A computer, or the human brain, is what is needed for the information, to be able to imagine and create things, to be stored, computed, and processed to produce an outcome, which can allow the creation of things.

The Universe is just made up of two fundamental parts, matter, and space around and in between matter. Space allows matter to move freely, so that they can come together producing things, which evolves.

The ability to be Conscious or Aware of ALL-OF-THIS comes from imagination, which comes from a Truly OPEN Mind. The ability to create, comes from imagination, again which comes from A Truly Open Mind, combined with a truly amazing brain, that works just like a computer in its ability to gather and store information.

Information that is able to be learned, understood, and reasoned comes from BOTH a Mind that is OPEN to any and EVERY thing, and a storage device, which is capable of obtaining and sharing information with other computers, or human brains.

The Universe is made up of matter and space (non matter). The Universe is NOT logical. It is just matter and space. The Mind is logical, as it is OPEN to ALL things, and as such just KNOWS ALL things anyway. The Mind is also non emotional.

The human brain, however, can be logical and illogical, or more correctly the thoughts, which arise from a working brain can be logical or illogical. With the absolute wrong and incorrect, illogical, information that gets fed into brains, then obviously the output can and will be illogical also. From the brain also comes emotions.

The OPEN Mind allows us, human beings, to transcend any thing, any where. Through imagination we are able to be any where at any time. The OPEN Mind can see any thing and EVERY thing. The human brain can only see from what information has been fed into it.
surreptitious57
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Re: An Analogy, From Physical To Mind

Post by surreptitious57 »

Age wrote:
To me the Mind is in a state of completely and utter OPENNESS

Human beings however are in a continual state of change Closing and opening themselves with and from their thinking and views of things
Human minds are all that you say they are [ the terms human minds and human minds are compatible for the purpose of this thread ]

I do not think the Mind exists only minds [ animal / human / machine ]
surreptitious57
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Re: An Analogy, From Physical To Mind

Post by surreptitious57 »

Age wrote:
If however you do NOT yet have a full and true big picture of ALL THERE IS then
this might be because of one of your views or opinions is not quite right and true
Opinions can never be right and true at the time they are expressed because while they may be based on facts they are not facts as such
Therefore no matter how logical or reasoned they may be they are ultimately no more than a subjective interpretation of objective truth

Also my own knowledge base like that of all human minds will always be limited so I will never have an absolute understanding of reality
Minds can acquire knowledge over time though that will never amount to omniscience but this is just a limitation that has to be accepted
Age
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Re: An Analogy, From Physical To Mind

Post by Age »

surreptitious57 wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:51 pm
Age wrote:
To me the Mind is in a state of completely and utter OPENNESS

Human beings however are in a continual state of change Closing and opening themselves with and from their thinking and views of things
Human minds are all that you say they are [ the terms human minds and human minds are compatible for the purpose of this thread ]

I do not think the Mind exists only minds [ animal / human / machine ]
But, if I recall correctly, I have NEVER used the phrase "human mind nor human minds" in this forum. If I have then it was to only point out that it does not exist.

So, if as you say, human minds are all what I say they are, then they do not exist.
surreptitious57
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Re: An Analogy, From Physical To Mind

Post by surreptitious57 »

Age wrote:
To me the human brain is a biological computer . Thoughts are the output of those computers [ YES YES ]

The Mind is what allows human beings to imagine conceive design plan and create absolutely any thing . Creativity and creation comes from
a truly OPEN Mind . A computer or the human brain is what is needed for the information to be able to imagine and create things to be stored computed and processed to produce an outcome which can allow the creation of things [ NO NO YES ]

The Universe is just made up of two fundamental parts - matter and space around and in between matter . Space allows matter to move freely so that they can come together producing things which evolve [ NO YES ]

The ability to be Conscious or Aware of ALL OF THIS comes from imagination which comes from a Truly OPEN Mind . The ability to create comes from imagination - again which comes from A Truly Open Mind combined with a truly amazing brain that works just like a computer in its ability to gather and store information [ NO NO ]

Information that is able to be learned understood and reasoned comes from BOTH a Mind that is OPEN to any and EVERY thing and a storage device which is capable of obtaining and sharing information with other computers or human brains [ NO YES ]

The Universe is made up of matter and space ( non matter ) . The Universe is NOT logical . It is just matter and space . The Mind is logical as it is OPEN to ALL things and as such just KNOWS ALL things anyway . The Mind is also non emotional [ YES YES YES NO NO ]

The human brain however can be logical and illogical or more correctly the thoughts which arise from a working brain can be logical or illogical
With the absolute wrong and incorrect and illogical information that gets fed into brains then obviously the output can and will be illogical also From the brain also comes emotions [ YES YES YES ]

The OPEN Mind allows us human beings to transcend any thing any where . Through imagination we are able to be any where at any time
The OPEN Mind can see any thing and EVERY thing . The human brain can only see from what information has been fed into it [ NO NO YES ]
surreptitious57
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Re: An Analogy, From Physical To Mind

Post by surreptitious57 »

Age wrote:
I have NEVER used the phrase human mind nor human minds in this forum
The phrase human minds as used here is mine not yours [ usually I only say minds ] as I know you yourself do not use the phrase
You say human beings but to me human beings and human minds are the same within the context of this thread and others also
Age
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Re: An Analogy, From Physical To Mind

Post by Age »

surreptitious57 wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:19 pm
Age wrote:
If however you do NOT yet have a full and true big picture of ALL THERE IS then
this might be because of one of your views or opinions is not quite right and true
Opinions can never be right and true at the time they are expressed because while they may be based on facts they are not facts as such
Are you saying that an opinion could never coincidentally coincide with a fact?
surreptitious57 wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:19 pmTherefore no matter how logical or reasoned they may be they are ultimately no more than a subjective interpretation of objective truth
Are you saying a subjective interpretation can not coincide with an objective truth?
surreptitious57 wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:19 pmAlso my own knowledge base like that of all human minds will always be limited so I will never have an absolute understanding of reality
Well you proving this true. You are so limited that you are completely closed off to that what you already believe you know is true.

Of course when limited human beings with their limited thinking, which comes from a limited brain and limited past experiences, only views things from this limited perspective, then they will not see, nor fully comprehend and understand, reality, itself.

That is why you human beings need to discover and/or learn how to view things from the fully OPEN perspective and not from the limited perspective. Then you can transform out of the limited human being and evolve into the next stage of Life, and thy True Self.

I have already, enough times now, informed HOW this can and will be achieved.
surreptitious57 wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:19 pmMinds can acquire knowledge over time though that will never amount to omniscience but this is just a limitation that has to be accepted
Now, this is a very typical human being perspective of things. "we are limited so some things can never be known nor achieved". Spoken like a true human being. That is; says some things can not be known nor done, but professes to KNOWING the Truth of this.

Yet absolutely EVERY thing you human beings have achieved and know now, when this is written, was once seen as and professed to being impossible and never being able to be achieved nor known. Funny that.
Age
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Re: An Analogy, From Physical To Mind

Post by Age »

surreptitious57 wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:31 pm
Age wrote:
I have NEVER used the phrase human mind nor human minds in this forum
The phrase human minds as used here is mine not yours [ usually I only say minds ] as I know you yourself do not use the phrase
You say human beings but to me human beings and human minds are the same within the context of this thread and others also
But, to me, they are not the same things.
surreptitious57
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Re: An Analogy, From Physical To Mind

Post by surreptitious57 »

Age wrote:
Now this is a very typical human being perspective of things . we are limited so some things can never be known nor achieved
Spoken like a true human being . That is says some things can not be known nor done but professes to KNOWING the Truth of this

Yet absolutely EVERY thing you human beings have achieved and know now when this is written was once seen as and professed to
being impossible and never being able to be achieved nor known
If human beings ever achieve omniscience within my lifetime then I will accept it without question
But less they actually do so before they eventually become extinct then it will indeed be impossible

The impossibility of some things being made possible in the future - specifically only the future they will be living in - does not apply to all things
That however should not and indeed does not stop human beings from trying to make some things that are impossible now possible in their future
surreptitious57
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Re: An Analogy, From Physical To Mind

Post by surreptitious57 »

Age wrote:
You are so limited that you are completely closed off to that what you already believe you know is true
I am never closed off to any evidence that truly invalidates any statements that I make about the future or anything else
Some statements may be provisional and others may be absolute but anything shown to be false will always be discarded
surreptitious57
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Re: An Analogy, From Physical To Mind

Post by surreptitious57 »

Age wrote:
you human beings need to discover and or learn how to view things from the fully OPEN perspective and not from the limited perspective

I have already enough times now informed HOW this can and will be achieved
Yes you have and that is by being truly open and seeing reality as it is without making assumptions or having beliefs about it in any way
My own mind is very limited in its capabilities and thinks that it will never attain such a state and is why it is very sceptical about this

It is far more open now than it has ever been but I know that that is however not the same as being completely open
Maybe the machines of the future will be able to attain the openness that human minds cannot attain for themselves
Age
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Re: An Analogy, From Physical To Mind

Post by Age »

surreptitious57 wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:39 pm
Age wrote:
you human beings need to discover and or learn how to view things from the fully OPEN perspective and not from the limited perspective

I have already enough times now informed HOW this can and will be achieved
Yes you have and that is by being truly open and seeing reality as it is without making assumptions or having beliefs about it in any way
My own mind is very limited in its capabilities and thinks that it will never attain such a state and is why it is very sceptical about this
You even know what the very thing stopping you is, yet you keep persisting in following that thing. So, just continue being it.
surreptitious57 wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:39 pmIt is far more open now than it has ever been but I know that that is however not the same as being completely open
The Mind, which you say is far more open now than It ever has been, is obviously not true. When that body was born there was a complete openness within it, but sadly that openness become slowly closed. Although an openness may be slowly becoming more open again it is obvious that that that openness is not as open as it once was previously.
surreptitious57 wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:39 pmMaybe the machines of the future will be able to attain the openness that human minds cannot attain for themselves
This is so obviously wrong and false on all accounts. But because you do not want to look at anything other than what you keep on insisting is true, there is no use commenting any further.
surreptitious57
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Re: An Analogy, From Physical To Mind

Post by surreptitious57 »

Age wrote:
You even know what the very thing stopping you is
The first step to attaining self improvement is to acknowledge ones weaknesses which I have done
For by doing this can one become a better human being though it will always be a work in progress
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