The Nature of Consciousness

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Speakpigeon
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Re: The Nature of Consciousness

Post by Speakpigeon » Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:33 am

RCSaunders wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:25 pm
Speakpigeon wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:21 pm
... I don't need to be given an explanation of reality because by definition there is none. But explain to me what is really the physical world.
At first blush, the request seems disingenuous. If you know there is no reality (by definition) what would be the point of asking for an explanation of what you know does not really exist?

Exactly what is defined in such a way that it means there is no reality? "There is no reality," is not a definition of anything, it is simply a proposition.
I see. So, you are having a conversation with whom exactly?! Surely not me. So, why do you quote my post?!

Your mention of the phrase "There is no reality,", in between quotes, implies this is something I said. But I didn't said that. I didn't suggest that. What I say doesn't imply that.

So why do you believe in God again?
RCSaunders wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:25 pm
Since you asked: the physical world is the one in which its constituent elements are discovered and described by chemistry, for example. The one you eat, drink, sleep, read, shop, drive your car, make love, and write responses to posts in.
OK, so God is the being which can be discovered using the power of your mind. It is a being that can help you when in need and it, obviously, created the whole world, which must be reassuring. So why do you believe in God?

OK, we can stop here. You don't seem to understand the strictures of rational debate. The first one being that you should attribute to the other guy something he didn't say.
EB

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Speakpigeon
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Re: The Nature of Consciousness

Post by Speakpigeon » Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:37 am

RCSaunders wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:03 pm
Speakpigeon wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:31 pm
Existence is indeed fundamental but existence only as you experience it subjectively, and as such it implies neither space, time nor space-time just as the quale of redness doesn't imply anything about the physical world. Existence in space-time, or more generally in the physical world, or indeed existence of the physical world isn't fundamental since all these concepts are beliefs derived from our experience.
EB
Space and time are concepts for physical phenomena. Things really do have positional relations to each other, and things that move change their positional relationships and those relationships are called spatial. Time is a way, along with velocity, of relating motions to each other. The are not themselves entities, but they certainly exist as real physical relationships. Those relationship exist independently of anyone's consciousness or knowledge of them.
Sure, that's what you believe, but I don't see how that would be anything like a considered reply to what I said.
RCSaunders wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:03 pm
As for, "the quale of redness doesn't imply anything about the physical world," why does science attribute a unique range of electro-magnetic wavelengths to the color red if there is no actual relationship between them?
You would need to ask scientists about that. You see, God exists because why would the Pope say that God exists if He didn't?

OK, please ignore my posts.
EB

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RCSaunders
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Re: The Nature of Consciousness

Post by RCSaunders » Sat Aug 10, 2019 2:16 pm

Speakpigeon wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:33 am
RCSaunders wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:25 pm
Speakpigeon wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:21 pm
... I don't need to be given an explanation of reality because by definition there is none. But explain to me what is really the physical world.
At first blush, the request seems disingenuous. If you know there is no reality (by definition) what would be the point of asking for an explanation of what you know does not really exist?

Exactly what is defined in such a way that it means there is no reality? "There is no reality," is not a definition of anything, it is simply a proposition.
I see. So, you are having a conversation with whom exactly?! Surely not me. So, why do you quote my post?!

Your mention of the phrase "There is no reality,", in between quotes, implies this is something I said. But I didn't said that. I didn't suggest that. What I say doesn't imply that.

So why do you believe in God again?
RCSaunders wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:25 pm
Since you asked: the physical world is the one in which its constituent elements are discovered and described by chemistry, for example. The one you eat, drink, sleep, read, shop, drive your car, make love, and write responses to posts in.
OK, so God is the being which can be discovered using the power of your mind. It is a being that can help you when in need and it, obviously, created the whole world, which must be reassuring. So why do you believe in God?

OK, we can stop here. You don't seem to understand the strictures of rational debate. The first one being that you should attribute to the other guy something he didn't say.
EB
Perhaps I misunderstood. I thought, in your sentence, "I don't need to be given an explanation of reality because by definition there is none," your phrase, "because by definition there is none," modified the noun, "reality," immediately preceding it. You apparently meant for it to modify the entire phrase, "an explanation of reality." Is that right?

If that is the case, I apologize for misreading what you wrote, but it raises another question. What do you mean by, "an explanation of reality?" Do you not believe it is possible to define the word, "reality," that is, to explain what you mean when you use the word? What is someone supposed to understand you are referring to when you use the word reality? What other explanation of reality might there be?

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RCSaunders
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Re: The Nature of Consciousness

Post by RCSaunders » Sat Aug 10, 2019 2:27 pm

Speakpigeon wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:37 am
Sure, that's what you believe, but I don't see how that would be anything like a considered reply to what I said.
You don't really? Then I'm sorry about that.
Speakpigeon wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:37 am
RCSaunders wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:03 pm
As for, "the quale of redness doesn't imply anything about the physical world," why does science attribute a unique range of electro-magnetic wavelengths to the color red if there is no actual relationship between them?
You would need to ask scientists about that. You see, God exists because why would the Pope say that God exists if He didn't?
I do not take the word of any authority no matter what he calls himself, scientist, philosopher, or pope.
Speakpigeon wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:37 am
OK, please ignore my posts.
EB
Take it easy. I find your posts both interesting, thought-provoking, and entertaining. So I will not ignore them.

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