Ultimate Reality

So what's really going on?

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Dontaskme
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Re: Ultimate Reality

Post by Dontaskme » Fri Jul 05, 2019 3:16 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:57 am
Dontaskme wrote:
You ve made a claim that minds exist here . So what scientific sufficient valid evidence is there for a mind in your opinion ?

What is a mind ?

What KNOWS the concept ( mind ) ?
I am a mind and I exist so minds exist as well. Mind is the function of the brain and so when the brain dies then the mind dies too.
So what knows that claim you make?

You say there is an I that is a mind...and that this I can be described as being the mind? or is the mind describing itself as an I ? ... how is this known? and by what? ...if the answer is by the mind, then how come a mind that has NEVER been SEEN know that it exists? How does that work?

This kind or reasoning tells us nothing of what or who or what knows this MIND - where is the scientific sufficient valid evidence to support such a claim that the MIND exists?

There isn't any is there? ..and yet you confidently talk about a MIND as existing ...prove it and then I'll believe you.

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Ramu
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Re: Ultimate Reality

Post by Ramu » Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:23 pm

Mind being a function of the brain is pure concept and nothing else. Science has never proven mind as a function of brain..

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bahman
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Re: Ultimate Reality

Post by bahman » Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:50 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 6:10 am
bahman wrote:
Consider a change in a system A to B. A and B cannot coexist therefore A has to vanish before B is caused. There is however nothing when
A vanishes and B cannot possibly be caused by nothing. Therefore there should exist a mind which experiences A and causes B
Physical systems pre date minds by ten billion years so can function perfectly well without them
The changes that occur within them are caused by inanimate matter that are entirely mind free
It was also inanimate matter that had to already be in existence before minds could be created
Did you understand my argument? If yes, what is wrong with that?

Ramu
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Re: Ultimate Reality

Post by Ramu » Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:03 pm

Physical systems and a physical universe don't exist as there is NOTHING to ground the physical. What your stating is a form of Naive Realism. Sloppy metaphysics at best!

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bahman
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Re: Ultimate Reality

Post by bahman » Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:26 pm

Ramu wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:03 pm
Physical systems and a physical universe don't exist as there is NOTHING to ground the physical. What your stating is a form of Naive Realism. Sloppy metaphysics at best!
Are you talking to me? If yes, I have to say that my argument is the proof in favor of idealism and against materialism. Materials, including internal states such as thought, cannot exist without a mind.

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RCSaunders
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Re: Ultimate Reality

Post by RCSaunders » Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:33 am

Ramu wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:03 pm
Physical systems and a physical universe don't exist as there is NOTHING to ground the physical.
Students sometimes ask me for examples of sentences that don't say or mean anything. Do you mind if I quote you?

surreptitious57
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Re: Ultimate Reality

Post by surreptitious57 » Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:30 am

Dontaskme wrote:
You say there is an I that is a mind ... and that this I can be described as being the mind ? ... or is the mind describing itself as an I ? ... how is this known ? and by what ? ... if the answer is by the mind then how come a mind that has NEVER been SEEN know that it exists ? How does that work ?
I cannot answer questions of that nature because I do not actually know what they are
What I do know is that looking for answers does not always get results so I let them be

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Dontaskme
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Re: Ultimate Reality

Post by Dontaskme » Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:01 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:30 am
Dontaskme wrote:
You say there is an I that is a mind ... and that this I can be described as being the mind ? or is the mind describing itself as an I ? ... how is this known ? and by what ? ... if the answer is by the mind then how come a mind that has NEVER been SEEN know that it exists ? How does that work ?
I cannot answer questions of that nature because I do not actually know what they are
What I do know is that looking for answers does not always get results so I let them be
That's weird though huh? ..you speak of death and the mind as if they actually existed as real...but really they are just concepts made up out of thin air believed to be real, but no one knows who or what is the believer do they? No one has the answers to the questions they ask do they, questions like what is this mind I speak about...? what is this death I speak about etc etc..?

So now you cannot answer the question what is death and what is the mind you speak of so confidently. And is why questions can only pertain to a sense of separate self which is a knowledge you have about yourself. So in fact all questions must already contain the answers via the knowledge you already think you have. You talk about a mind via the knowledge you have, but you never question where that knowledge actually comes from.. no?

What if there is nothing outside of knowledge, and that all knowledge is sourced in that nothingness? Where is the knower/believer, other than what is made up out of pure imagination and fantasy by the same nothingness.

Knowledge is a fantasy, a conceptual overlay upon the blank screen of awareness your true non-identified unknowing known identity.

.

surreptitious57
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Re: Ultimate Reality

Post by surreptitious57 » Sat Jul 06, 2019 10:07 am

Nothing for me is set in stone so I cannot be certain about anything that I think anymore. What I do think is based upon my own very limited understanding at the time. This is true for everything not just what we are discussing here. I known virtually nothing therefore being certain about anything is not wise. However I cannot see anything wrong with what is being discussed here for it seems to make perfect sense to me Unfortunately holding onto knowledge is not for me as I just want to know and nothing else. I do not want to hold on anymore than I have to

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Dontaskme
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Re: Ultimate Reality

Post by Dontaskme » Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:01 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 10:07 am
Nothing for me is set in stone so I cannot be certain about anything that I think anymore. What I do think is based upon my own very limited understanding at the time. This is true for everything not just what we are discussing here. I known virtually nothing therefore being certain about anything is not wise. However I cannot see anything wrong with what is being discussed here for it seems to make perfect sense to me Unfortunately holding onto knowledge is not for me as I just want to know and nothing else. I do not want to hold on anymore than I have to

The point is there is no one to be certain about anything. So any assumption or claim to know about anything at all is just an idea about what cannot in reality be known.
''Thoughts'' are just more paint on the blank screen of awareness, no amount of paint added to the screen of actual reality makes any difference to the screen, the picture will just appear to be an ever changing appearance upon the never changing non-appearing blank screen...and there is no way of approaching the screen by applying more paint to it. Beneath the conceptual overlay (what no one paints reality to be) there is nothing.

For the human being, life is a fictional story, nothing spoken about can be proven to exist at all, there is simply no you to be certain of anything except in this conception of you, as imagined by no one appearing on the blank screen of awareness.

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surreptitious57
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Re: Ultimate Reality

Post by surreptitious57 » Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:13 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Thoughts are just more paint on the blank screen of awareness no amount of paint added to the screen of actual reality makes any difference to the screen the picture will just appear to be an ever changing appearance upon the never changing non appearing blank screen
I cannot see the blank screen so do not know that it exists but the fact that others think it exists does help
But with so many different perspectives about reality and not knowing which is true I try to keep detached
All I am doing now is simply being open about all the possibilities without committing myself to any of them

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Dontaskme
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Re: Ultimate Reality

Post by Dontaskme » Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:19 am

RCSaunders wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:33 am
Ramu wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:03 pm
Physical systems and a physical universe don't exist as there is NOTHING to ground the physical.
Students sometimes ask me for examples of sentences that don't say or mean anything. Do you mind if I quote you?
It's no big deal because some students of philosophy prefer to look through the opposite side of the telescope when seeking meaning, purpose and truth...looking out one sees nothing, looking in one sees nothing...take your pick which one is more meaningful?

There is nothing in reality to make anything of, no actual physical ground to hang out together to maybe share a costa coffee or two.
The you you believe to exist is literally made out of the emptiness you are appearing in.

Any demand for meaning, or no demand for meaning found in appearances in the form of concepts/words.. will know there are always two sides to every story. Stories don't have to mean anything, or they can mean whatever meaning puts there conceptually, it all depends whether one is looking for meaning or not. What you want you usually get, just by thinking about some thing out of thin air.

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Dontaskme
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Re: Ultimate Reality

Post by Dontaskme » Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:23 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:13 am


I cannot see the blank screen so do not know that it exists but the fact that others think it exists does help
No one can see the blank screen, no more that an eyeball can look at itself, seeing is one unitary action.
You cannot see the seer, you are the seer.
surreptitious57 wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:13 am
But with so many different perspectives about reality and not knowing which is true I try to keep detached
All I am doing now is simply being open about all the possibilities without committing myself to any of them
Of course, we've only got a trail of breadcrumbs to feast upon here, but never the whole loaf of bread.

You are the whole loaf of bread, experiencing what it is like to taste one crumb at a time.

.

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RCSaunders
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Re: Ultimate Reality

Post by RCSaunders » Sat Jul 06, 2019 6:59 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:19 am
RCSaunders wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:33 am
Ramu wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:03 pm
Physical systems and a physical universe don't exist as there is NOTHING to ground the physical.
Students sometimes ask me for examples of sentences that don't say or mean anything. Do you mind if I quote you?
[/quote
It's no big deal because some students of philosophy ...
They're students of English.

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Dontaskme
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Re: Ultimate Reality

Post by Dontaskme » Sun Jul 07, 2019 8:23 am

RCSaunders wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 6:59 pm
They're students of English.
That's lucky, then at least they'll be able to translate the (Ramu quote) you want to use as an example of what is in your opinion meaninglessness.

Just remember to allow the students to make up their own mind about what they are reading. Try to resist the urge to plant a seed of thought that is yours into another head as if it was their thought too.

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