You never happened.

[jayjacobus]

if indeed you are

Indeed I am.

[Dontaskme]

I did not say "universe" nor did I say "rational" nor did I say "assumption" nor did I say "metaphysical".

You may be confused but I think you are confusing.

No it's you who is confused.

You are questioning the answers I've already given to Arising_uk

.

[Dontaskme]

I have issues with clarity some times.

Happen is or happen does or happen represents.

What's happenning here?

Infinity is a presentation happening right now infinitely for eternity, meaning it's not happening.

A representation is a happened that never happens.

[Dontaskme]

Of course the knower hasn't been seen. He/she/it is an abstraction. But I am not abstract to me. You miss the point.

Objectivity is not the point. Compatible subjectivity is the point. The more compatible we are, the more our subjectivity supervenes on the real.

Why complicate, the simple?

What?

[Dontaskme]

Death and Life are the same reality, they just differ in appearance, one is seen/known the other is unseen/known. Awareness is a two way mirror reflecting itself alone.


( “Thou cannot see My face, for there shall no man see Me and live.”Exodus 33:20 )


.

Are these two independent statements or is there a connection? Have you ordered them in a logical way?

There is no logical way.

The two way mirror that is non-dual reality has two sides, the two sides can never meet, or see each other - as each side is the same one mirror reflecting itself only, so never the twain shall meet.

Metaphysics is not woo...it's all the conceptual dogma that is the woo.

.

[Dontaskme]

Rather they try [ and fail ] to explain what they do not understand as all metaphysical claims are unfalsifiable

There is no such entity as a metaphysical claimer, that's what metaphysics mean, it's the realisation by no one that there is no one to claim any knowledge of anything. As such, there is nothing to understand or explain. Any attempt to do so is a falsifiable claim.

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[Dontaskme]

Yes the knowers have been seen because we are all each the physical manifestation of our own individual minds
There is no one single absolute knower but instead many which collectively make up all of human consciousness

ok thanks, so then if the knower has been seen as you say it has, then where is it's actual location can you point to it directly and say that is the knower?



.

[Dontaskme]

The belief that there is an absolute knower exists as many conceptual ideas within human consciousness

Do you not see that the word human is a concept known by consciousness, and that consciousness is that which knows a concept, not that the concept human is the knower, the concept human is the known not the knower...the knower is consciousness.

Can you see that by saying human consciousness...there is a label being stuck on consciousness...which give consciousness an identity...the identity of human....is that true, is consciousness human...if it is then as a human try and create human consciousness from scratch...if it's human then that human should be able to recreate it's consciousness from scratch...is consciousness a created manifested thing? ..if it is, then point to it?

Do you see the problem?

Human minds have always had these conceptual ideas because they explain what they do not understand

[jayjacobus]

Of course the knower hasn't been seen. He/she/it is an abstraction. But I am not abstract to me. You miss the point.

Objectivity is not the point. Compatible subjectivity is the point. The more compatible we are, the more our subjectivity supervenes on the real.

Why complicate, the simple?

What?

What is unknown.

[Dontaskme]

Of course the knower hasn't been seen. He/she/it is an abstraction. But I am not abstract to me. You miss the point.

Objectivity is not the point. Compatible subjectivity is the point. The more compatible we are, the more our subjectivity supervenes on the real.

Why complicate, the simple?

What?

What is unknown.

Only what is known is known...what is unknown will eventually become known...but what is unknowable can never be known.

.

[jayjacobus]

What?

What is unknown.

Only what is known is known...what is unknown will eventually become known...but what is unknowable can never be known.

.

What is unknown.
or
What is unknown?

Are you the period or the question mark

[Dontaskme]

What is unknown.

Only what is known is known...what is unknown will eventually become known...but what is unknowable can never be known.

.

What is unknown.
or
What is unknown?

Are you the period or the question mark

You are everything and nothing.

[jayjacobus]

Only what is known is known...what is unknown will eventually become known...but what is unknowable can never be known.

.

What is unknown.
or
What is unknown?

Are you the period or the question mark

You are everything and nothing.

That can't possibly be true.

[Arising_uk]

Do me a favour please, I get that you think 'it' all one big consciousness or awareness but when you are talking about 'it' could you capitalize it to differentiate when you are talking about individual consciousnesses and do the same with knowing and concept, that is, capitalise when you are talking about 'it' knowing or having a concept and us knowing or having a concept as it is very difficult to make sense of what you say when you mix and match them.

The body is a concept known (information) but not known by the concept itself... ...

I differ, the body is a fact not a concept, it is the ground for the phenomenal experience we have of an external world.

you as awareness is aware of the body, ...

I differ, me as a body is aware that it is one.

but is not the body as awareness has never been born or died, ...

I agree, only bodies are born and die and awareness lives and dies with them.

only a concept is born and can die..and concepts are not real...

No idea how you are applying "born" and "die" to a concept nor how you can if they aren't real?

But You Awareness is real right now and knows every concept as when they arise and fall in you. ...

In who? How can you have a "you" given what you say?

A tree doesn't exist apart from awareness, it's an imaginary image of the imageless faceless awareness. ...

Is "awareness" in this case your "Awareness"? As trees exist apart from my awareness otherwise they'd not be bigger or changed when them come back into my awareness. Are you basically saying you are an Idealist a la Berkley and it is 'God' who sustains ideas when we're not looking?

I agree that given Causation and Reason it is logical to think that there is a Noumena and as such I know that you cannot know that 'it' is imageless, faceless or aware. Such assumptions are just a personal metaphysic presumably based upon some psychological reason, desire or need.

Awareness has no face, it's face is seen in it's reflection..the conceptual image reflecting back at it's imageless self. ...

Sounds lovely, what's conceptualising 'it'?

Death and Life are the same reality, ...

Neither are a reality in the sense of being things, 'Death' is not a thing other than being the state of a ex-living thing and 'Life' is just a reification as there is no 'Life' other than living things.

they just differ in appearance, one is seen/known the other is unseen/known. Awareness is a two way mirror reflecting itself alone. ...

If your 'Awareness' is alone then it cannot reflect as it will have nothing to reflect upon.

( “Thou cannot see My face, for there shall no man see Me and live.”Exodus 33:20 )

You appear to me to be an ex-theist recreating a 'God' more suitable to yourself.

[Dontaskme]

Arising_uk...you ask what’s conceptualising it?

The answer is awareness is..while at the same time is not a concept, but knows each and every concept as and when it is born via the mental construction...where the unknown becomes known to itself ..in this conception...as it conceives itself to be....see here>

“Consciousness does not shine by itself. It shines by a light beyond it. The mind must learn that beyond the moving mind there is a background of awareness which does not change. The mind must come to know the true self and respect it and cease covering it up, like the moon which obscures the sun during a solar eclipse.”

~Sri Nisargadatta

See the next post....