What's your answer to the most fundamental question concerning time?

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Speakpigeon
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Re: What's your answer to the most fundamental question concerning time?

Post by Speakpigeon »

You still don't understand the question.
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jayjacobus
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Re: What's your answer to the most fundamental question concerning time?

Post by jayjacobus »

One definition for time is t(n+1)=t(n)+1 for all n.

This refers to the function of time.

Dates are used to refer to events. Dates are NOT an identity for t(n+1)=t(n)+1. A date is a span of time or the place in a sequence, not a function.

If there was no function of time there would be no dates because the current date would never change.
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Re: What's your answer to the most fundamental question concerning time?

Post by Greylorn Ell »

The arguments in this thread were written by non-physicists who are unaware that if one synchronizes a pair of identical clocks parked side-by-side, then moves one of them upward by, let's say, 10 feet, the clocks are no longer synchronized. This is explained by General Relativity and experimentally verified.

I lacked the patience to peruse this entire thread, but in a half-hour of wasted study time found no post that indicated an awareness of this issue. Not a surprise, given that philosophers ignorant of basic physics dominate this forum.
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Skepdick
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Re: What's your answer to the most fundamental question concerning time?

Post by Skepdick »

Greylorn Ell wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 2:32 am The arguments in this thread were written by non-physicists who are unaware that if one synchronizes a pair of identical clocks parked side-by-side, then moves one of them upward by, let's say, 10 feet, the clocks are no longer synchronized.
It depends on your notion of "synchronicity" and your notion of "clock"

Using vector clocks we can agree on the ordering of events even if we can't agree on their duration.

Think "joining threads" as the location of synchronicity.
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Re: What's your answer to the most fundamental question concerning time?

Post by attofishpi »

Greylorn Ell wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 2:32 am The arguments in this thread were written by non-physicists who are unaware that if one synchronizes a pair of identical clocks parked side-by-side, then moves one of them upward by, let's say, 10 feet, the clocks are no longer synchronized. This is explained by General Relativity and experimentally verified.
I'm not sure why you insisted on 'upward', I guess you are talking about from the perspective of Earth and gravity? It doesn't matter, the fact that they have moved in relation to each other should render them out of synch.

I wonder whether two clocks accurate to within a zeptosecond of each other were to move apart a zeptometre, whether we would one day real eyes they are no longer synchronous...perhaps after an attosecond. :idea:
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Re: What's your answer to the most fundamental question concerning time?

Post by Skepdick »

attofishpi wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:31 am I'm not sure why you insisted on 'upward', I guess you are talking about from the perspective of Earth and gravity? It doesn't matter, the fact that they have moved in relation to each other should render them out of synch.
If you are using the notion of "synchronisation" as in "open communication channel between two objects" then you can consider entanglement to be a form of "synchronisation".

Movement doesn't limit communication/interaction.

https://van.physics.illinois.edu/qa/lis ... p?id=26878
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Re: What's your answer to the most fundamental question concerning time?

Post by attofishpi »

Skepdick wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:59 pm
attofishpi wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:31 am I'm not sure why you insisted on 'upward', I guess you are talking about from the perspective of Earth and gravity? It doesn't matter, the fact that they have moved in relation to each other should render them out of synch.
If you are using the notion of "synchronisation" as in "open communication channel between two objects" then you can consider entanglement to be a form of "synchronisation".

Movement doesn't limit communication/interaction.

https://van.physics.illinois.edu/qa/lis ... p?id=26878
I'm actually talking bollocks, just a bit of a thought experiment shared. I guess synchronisation is not the correct word, since the term must insist on a causal relationship (between the two clocks).

'Time measured' per each clock and there comparison is more accurate to what I am bollocking on about.

If two clocks are in the same point in space - then accelerate away from each other at precisely the same acceleration and maintain identical velocity, then return to the same point in space (all other factors - gravity etc not involved). then their 'time measured' should be identical.
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Re: What's your answer to the most fundamental question concerning time?

Post by Greylorn Ell »

attofishpi wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:44 pm
Skepdick wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:59 pm
attofishpi wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:31 am I'm not sure why you insisted on 'upward', I guess you are talking about from the perspective of Earth and gravity? It doesn't matter, the fact that they have moved in relation to each other should render them out of synch.
If you are using the notion of "synchronisation" as in "open communication channel between two objects" then you can consider entanglement to be a form of "synchronisation".

Movement doesn't limit communication/interaction.

https://van.physics.illinois.edu/qa/lis ... p?id=26878

I'm actually talking bollocks, just a bit of a thought experiment shared. I guess synchronisation is not the correct word, since the term must insist on a causal relationship (between the two clocks).

'Time measured' per each clock and there comparison is more accurate to what I am bollocking on about.

If two clocks are in the same point in space - then accelerate away from each other at precisely the same acceleration and maintain identical velocity, then return to the same point in space (all other factors - gravity etc not involved). then their 'time measured' should be identical.
Unfortunately for your argument, if two clocks separate in spacetime, they cannot return to a starting point because it no longer exists. Spacetime is in flux. The universe is expanding, probably exponentially. The original starting point at the separation cannot be defined.
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Re: What's your answer to the most fundamental question concerning time?

Post by Greylorn Ell »

Skepdick wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:13 am
Greylorn Ell wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 2:32 am The arguments in this thread were written by non-physicists who are unaware that if one synchronizes a pair of identical clocks parked side-by-side, then moves one of them upward by, let's say, 10 feet, the clocks are no longer synchronized.
It depends on your notion of "synchronicity" and your notion of "clock"

Using vector clocks we can agree on the ordering of events even if we can't agree on their duration.

Think "joining threads" as the location of synchronicity.
I've no clue as to what you mean by joining threads. You are coming across as a bullshit artist, and I'm sorry to find that. I'd love to find a competent interlocutor. GL
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Re: What's your answer to the most fundamental question concerning time?

Post by attofishpi »

Greylorn Ell wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:42 pm
Skepdick wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:13 am
Greylorn Ell wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 2:32 am The arguments in this thread were written by non-physicists who are unaware that if one synchronizes a pair of identical clocks parked side-by-side, then moves one of them upward by, let's say, 10 feet, the clocks are no longer synchronized.
It depends on your notion of "synchronicity" and your notion of "clock"

Using vector clocks we can agree on the ordering of events even if we can't agree on their duration.

Think "joining threads" as the location of synchronicity.
I've no clue as to what you mean by joining threads. You are coming across as a bullshit artist, and I'm sorry to find that. I'd love to find a competent interlocutor. GL
I think he is telling you that you are using the wrong term in 'synchronize'. You should be talking about the 'time measured' on each clock. Synchronisation requires some causal relationship between the two clocks.
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Re: What's your answer to the most fundamental question concerning time?

Post by Skepdick »

Greylorn Ell wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:42 pm I've no clue as to what you mean by joining threads. You are coming across as a bullshit artist, and I'm sorry to find that. I'd love to find a competent interlocutor. GL
You said you have programming background, yes? You understand what concurrency/parallelism is, yes?

A "join" is a point in future where multiple concurrent time-lines (threads) collapse back into one. It's a synchronization technique.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fork%E2%80%93join_model

And the relevant quote from the wikipedia page on synchronization
Process synchronization refers to the idea that multiple processes are to join up or handshake at a certain point, in order to reach an agreement.
So you can think about it as two observers taking different paths through spacetime, who rendevouz at some other point in spacetime and compare notes on "how much time has passed since we parted ways?"

The thread that did more work "experienced more time".
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attofishpi
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Re: What's your answer to the most fundamental question concerning time?

Post by attofishpi »

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Greylorn Ell
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Re: What's your answer to the most fundamental question concerning time?

Post by Greylorn Ell »

attofishpi wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:47 pm
Greylorn Ell wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:42 pm
Skepdick wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:13 am
It depends on your notion of "synchronicity" and your notion of "clock"

Using vector clocks we can agree on the ordering of events even if we can't agree on their duration.

Think "joining threads" as the location of synchronicity.
I've no clue as to what you mean by joining threads. You are coming across as a bullshit artist, and I'm sorry to find that. I'd love to find a competent interlocutor. GL
I think he is telling you that you are using the wrong term in 'synchronize'. You should be talking about the 'time measured' on each clock. Synchronisation requires some causal relationship between the two clocks.
I prefer to keep my definitions as simple as possible, because complex definitions are commonly used to produce bullshit answers to interesting questions. My definition of synchronization is exemplified by a gang of Hollywood bank robbers about to execute a carefully timed plan. Their leader says to his (or her) henchmen: Set your watches to exactly 2pm on my three count. One, two, three. Everyone got it?

If you prefer an alternative definition of synchronicity, why not have the linguistic courtesy to use a different word to label it?
GL
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attofishpi
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Re: What's your answer to the most fundamental question concerning time?

Post by attofishpi »

That's the spirit, WELCOME BACK!! :D
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Re: What's your answer to the most fundamental question concerning time?

Post by Greylorn Ell »

attofishpi wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:20 am That's the spirit, WELCOME BACK!! :D
How could I resist the blandishments of thoughtful interloquitors, despite the forest fire burning just east of my domicile? -GL
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