The Wrong God

So what's really going on?

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Dontaskme
Posts: 8078
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm

Re: The Wrong God

Post by Dontaskme » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:56 am

Belinda wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:40 am
Dontaskme wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:59 am
Logik wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:56 am

What's a "question" ?
Ask the questioneer.

.
There is no questioner; there is only asking of the question. Thus non duality tends away from personal responsibility which originates in intuition that the subject is a person, a self, a subject of the asking.
Responsiblity is an appearance within the subject also an appearance.

There is no person responsible for anything, because a person is an appearance.

There is here appearances interacting with other appearances, responsibilty or no responsibilty arises here as an appearance, behind the appearance nothing is controlling the mechanics...it's all free to operate as it wills.



.

Belinda
Posts: 3266
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:13 am

Re: The Wrong God

Post by Belinda » Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:15 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:56 am
Belinda wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:40 am
Dontaskme wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:59 am


Ask the questioneer.

.
There is no questioner; there is only asking of the question. Thus non duality tends away from personal responsibility which originates in intuition that the subject is a person, a self, a subject of the asking.
Responsiblity is an appearance within the subject also an appearance.

There is no person responsible for anything, because a person is an appearance.

There is here appearances interacting with other appearances, responsibilty or no responsibilty arises here as an appearance, behind the appearance nothing is controlling the mechanics...it's all free to operate as it wills.



.
Maybe. However we have to live as if appearances were real, because we have to make decisions.

Dontaskme
Posts: 8078
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm

Re: The Wrong God

Post by Dontaskme » Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:23 am

Belinda wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:15 am
Dontaskme wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:56 am
Belinda wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:40 am


There is no questioner; there is only asking of the question. Thus non duality tends away from personal responsibility which originates in intuition that the subject is a person, a self, a subject of the asking.
Responsiblity is an appearance within the subject also an appearance.

There is no person responsible for anything, because a person is an appearance.

There is here appearances interacting with other appearances, responsibilty or no responsibilty arises here as an appearance, behind the appearance nothing is controlling the mechanics...it's all free to operate as it wills.



.
Maybe. However we have to live as if appearances were real, because we have to make decisions.
Obviously, if it weren't convincingly real, then nothing would work or function properly. No one is denying that.

What's being pointed to here is that emptiness is form - form is emptiness.

.

Ramu
Posts: 160
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:55 pm

Re: The Wrong God

Post by Ramu » Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:16 pm

Belinda wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:57 pm
Roydop wrote:
---- pure Awareness,
Can "pure Awareness " occur only during wakefulness, or also during dreams, or drowsiness? Can it happen during episodes of depression? Can pure Awareness be induced by mind-altering drugs? Is experience of pure Awareness evidence of a supernatural form of being?

Is the Absolute intelligence a quality like human intelligence only more of it? Is the Absolute intelligence aware of the human condition?
Pure Awareness is what You Are. Your body is a projection coming out of nothing, (no thing). You can't go further back than Consciousness as it is First Order. Everything else..(something) is all occurring within Consciousness.

Belinda
Posts: 3266
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:13 am

Re: The Wrong God

Post by Belinda » Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:43 am

Ramu wrote:
You can't go further back than Consciousness as it is First Order. Everything else..(something) is all occurring within Consciousness.
This is not what 'consciousness' means to me and others. It would be better for explaining your theory if you were to use the same lexicon as others.

Ultimate reality is by some people taken to be mind so that all measurable matter is functioning of mind.This is what in European philosophy is called 'idealism', or if you speak American English it may be called' immaterialism'.

The modern scientific ontology is that there is brain-mind i.e. identity of brain and mind. In this connection the ontology of Spinoza fits well.
The modern view of consciousness is that, far from being a unity, consciousness varies according to both introspection and objective measurement.

It's not a good idea attempt to explain non duality using a modern lexicon that includes 'consciousness' with or without an honorific capital letter .

Ramu
Posts: 160
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:55 pm

Re: The Wrong God

Post by Ramu » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:53 am

Belinda wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:43 am
Ramu wrote:
You can't go further back than Consciousness as it is First Order. Everything else..(something) is all occurring within Consciousness.
This is not what 'consciousness' means to me and others. It would be better for explaining your theory if you were to use the same lexicon as others.

Ultimate reality is by some people taken to be mind so that all measurable matter is functioning of mind.This is what in European philosophy is called 'idealism', or if you speak American English it may be called' immaterialism'.

The modern scientific ontology is that there is brain-mind i.e. identity of brain and mind. In this connection the ontology of Spinoza fits well.
The modern view of consciousness is that, far from being a unity, consciousness varies according to both introspection and objective measurement.

It's not a good idea attempt to explain non duality using a modern lexicon that includes 'consciousness' with or without an honorific capital letter .
Ok so the C should be capitalized

Dontaskme
Posts: 8078
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm

Re: The Wrong God

Post by Dontaskme » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:59 am

Belinda wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:43 am

It's not a good idea attempt to explain non duality using a modern lexicon that includes 'consciousness' with or without an honorific capital letter .
Speaking from the Dam character here, which is not Ramu in any way shape or form for those who think otherwise... as soon as the word ''consciousness'' is uttered, consciousness becomes an object of knowledge.

The point is, consciousness cannot experience itself as an object of knowledge...except in the dream of separation, which the mind itself puts there via conceptual idea...how does this happen? ..no idea, it's pure magic.

Consciousness is not-a-thing conceiving itself as a thing...A thing is no things reflection...there is no thing in a reflection except the idea/conceptual belief there is..the concept is a total fabrication/imagined thing ...do you understand?

You've got to use and I to extract an I ...and then when both I's are thrown away, what's left is who you are...aka pure opaque conscious awareness.

This can't be explained using words, it can only be directly experienced ..self actualised ..it's totally self evident, it doesn't depend on knowledge aka concept to exist.
Just as you do not depend on knowledge to exist during unawareness of self during sleep, you still are... whether there is awareness knowledge or not...because what you are is awareness/consciousness which never sleeps, awareness is this totally wide awake presence at all times aware of everything as and when that thing arises in it...awareness has to be always present to be aware of any thing...thing being a mental construction. The thing you believe disappears in sleep or death is the ''thought'' of you (mental construction)...not awareness. Awareness is always present...unborn, undying.

Awareness has no image or thought of itself...that's a superimposed position placed upon it...an illusion.


.

Ramu
Posts: 160
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:55 pm

Re: The Wrong God

Post by Ramu » Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:14 pm

Belinda wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:43 am
Ramu wrote:
You can't go further back than Consciousness as it is First Order. Everything else..(something) is all occurring within Consciousness.
This is not what 'consciousness' means to me and others. It would be better for explaining your theory if you were to use the same lexicon as others.

Ultimate reality is by some people taken to be mind so that all measurable matter is functioning of mind.This is what in European philosophy is called 'idealism', or if you speak American English it may be called' immaterialism'.

The modern scientific ontology is that there is brain-mind i.e. identity of brain and mind. In this connection the ontology of Spinoza fits well.
The modern view of consciousness is that, far from being a unity, consciousness varies according to both introspection and objective measurement.

It's not a good idea attempt to explain non duality using a modern lexicon that includes 'consciousness' with or without an honorific capital letter .
It's not what Consciousness looks like to you and others because of the Materialist Paradigm you're following. Consciousness is not produced by brains. Consciousness is not in the brain. The brain is in Consciousness, (first order). Look closely at the metaphysics of this. Nothing is happening in a "brain". If everything I percei ed happened in a brain....then where would the brain be occurring?

Belinda
Posts: 3266
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:13 am

Re: The Wrong God

Post by Belinda » Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:33 pm

Ramu, I can understand that point of view. I have read better explanations of it; better because they employ more creative vocabularies. Isn't there an Eastern term for what you call consciousness. Or may be some poetry or a picture?

Ramu
Posts: 160
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:55 pm

Re: The Wrong God

Post by Ramu » Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:32 pm

Belinda wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:33 pm
Ramu, I can understand that point of view. I have read better explanations of it; better because they employ more creative vocabularies. Isn't there an Eastern term for what you call consciousness. Or may be some poetry or a picture?
Other terms are Source, God, Being, True Self, Brahman, The Absolute, Awareness..the list goes on

Belinda
Posts: 3266
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:13 am

Re: The Wrong God

Post by Belinda » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:10 pm

Ramu wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:32 pm
Belinda wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:33 pm
Ramu, I can understand that point of view. I have read better explanations of it; better because they employ more creative vocabularies. Isn't there an Eastern term for what you call consciousness. Or may be some poetry or a picture?
Other terms are Source, God, Being, True Self, Brahman, The Absolute, Awareness..the list goes on


Thank you I'd prefer any of those alternative names.

Greylorn Ell
Posts: 855
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2014 9:13 pm
Location: SE Arizona

Re: The Wrong God

Post by Greylorn Ell » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:21 pm

Since there is no moderator support for getting rid of trolls and sandbaggers, I'm abandoning this thread and the entire PNow forum. Have at one another, jackasses and nitwits. Between the lot of you, you possess all the philosophical acumen and half the intelligence of a bag of houseflies. GL

Dontaskme
Posts: 8078
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm

Re: The Wrong God

Post by Dontaskme » Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:34 am

Greylorn Ell wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:21 pm
Since there is no moderator support for getting rid of trolls and sandbaggers, I'm abandoning this thread and the entire PNow forum. Have at one another, jackasses and nitwits. Between the lot of you, you possess all the philosophical acumen and half the intelligence of a bag of houseflies. GL
Trolls as in those people who actually choose to think for themselves?

Try not to slam the door on your way out.

.

Dontaskme
Posts: 8078
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm

Re: The Wrong God

Post by Dontaskme » Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:37 am

Belinda wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:10 pm
Ramu wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:32 pm
Belinda wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:33 pm
Ramu, I can understand that point of view. I have read better explanations of it; better because they employ more creative vocabularies. Isn't there an Eastern term for what you call consciousness. Or may be some poetry or a picture?
Other terms are Source, God, Being, True Self, Brahman, The Absolute, Awareness..the list goes on


Thank you I'd prefer any of those alternative names.
I prefer nameless but then what can the mind do with nothing?

Enter the phantom.

.

Belinda
Posts: 3266
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:13 am

Re: The Wrong God

Post by Belinda » Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:54 am

Dontaskme wrote:
I prefer nameless but then what can the mind do with nothing?

Enter the phantom.
Yes. As soon as humans crystallise such an idea in language the idea loses its purity. Great art is what in some measure retains a smidgin of purity whilst it expresses the idea.
.

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