How do we experience time?

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bahman
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How do we experience time?

Post by bahman » Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:42 pm

We apparently do not have any sensory system for time. How could we then experience it?
Last edited by bahman on Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

Impenitent
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Re: How do we experience time?

Post by Impenitent » Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:46 pm

do you remember earlier events?

you are experiencing time...

the Swiss merely capitalized on the idea

-Imp

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attofishpi
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Re: How do we experience time?

Post by attofishpi » Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:36 pm

bahman wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:42 pm
We apparently do not have any sensory system for time. How could we then experience it?
Actually, unless you are suggesting we are so different to most of the animal kingdom, we actually do have an inherent comprehension of time, even if it so mundane as to our circadian cycles.

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bahman
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Re: How do we experience time?

Post by bahman » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:05 pm

attofishpi wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:36 pm
bahman wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:42 pm
We apparently do not have any sensory system for time. How could we then experience it?
Actually, unless you are suggesting we are so different to most of the animal kingdom, we actually do have an inherent comprehension of time, even if it so mundane as to our circadian cycles.
No, I don't think that we are different from animal.

Age
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Re: How do we experience time?

Post by Age » Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:30 pm

First there HAS TO BE 'time' existing before you human beings could experience 'it'.

Can you provide a definition for the word 'time' that shows how 'time' really exists?

surreptitious57
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Re: How do we experience time?

Post by surreptitious57 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:40 pm

bahman wrote:
We apparently do not have any sensory system for time
Motion of anything with mass cannot occur without time and the Universe is in a constant state of motion
Therefore even if time could not be measured the ageing of the body would be evidence of its existence

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bahman
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Re: How do we experience time?

Post by bahman » Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:57 pm

Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:30 pm
First there HAS TO BE 'time' existing before you human beings could experience 'it'.
Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:30 pm
Can you provide a definition for the word 'time' that shows how 'time' really exists?
Time to me is a quality of experience which allows change to be experiences in a proper rate. Without it there cannot be any experience change or all changes experienced simultaneously.

Age
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Re: How do we experience time?

Post by Age » Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:59 am

bahman wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:57 pm
Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:30 pm
First there HAS TO BE 'time' existing before you human beings could experience 'it'.
Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:30 pm
Can you provide a definition for the word 'time' that shows how 'time' really exists?
Time to me is a quality of experience which allows change to be experiences in a proper rate.
And, what is that "proper" rate?

Does it just magically coincide with the human being made rate of one second, per say "one second"?
bahman wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:57 pm
Without it there cannot be any experience change or all changes experienced simultaneously.
I am not sure that you have a full grasp on this.

Tell me what is wrong with what I say here:

The word 'time' can be used to explain a measured period between two points of reference.

There is NO actual separation between any two points of reference temporally. There is only a measured amount, which is only known because of and from a predesignated set of numbers on a human made device, like a clock, or from some thing like the sun.

I am pretty sure that the human body can experience change without the need of this human made tool called 'time'. A 'measured amount' is just a tool to help human beings separate points of references, or events, from each other. But there is NO actual separation, nor is there any actual stopping of change of this one and only event.

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bahman
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Re: How do we experience time?

Post by bahman » Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:07 pm

Age wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:59 am
bahman wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:57 pm
Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:30 pm
First there HAS TO BE 'time' existing before you human beings could experience 'it'.
Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:30 pm
Can you provide a definition for the word 'time' that shows how 'time' really exists?
Time to me is a quality of experience which allows change to be experienced in a proper rate.
And, what is that "proper" rate?
The rate that we experience changes. It is similar for all conscious being in a frame of reference and in the same gravitational force.
Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:30 pm
Does it just magically coincide with the human being made rate of one second, per say "one second"?
I think we adopt to this change through evolution.
Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:30 pm
bahman wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:57 pm
Without it there cannot be any experience change or all changes experienced simultaneously.
I am not sure that you have a full grasp on this.

Tell me what is wrong with what I say here:

The word 'time' can be used to explain a measured period between two points of reference.
What is two point of reference? Two points in time?
Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:30 pm
There is NO actual separation between any two points of reference temporally. There is only a measured amount, which is only known because of and from a predesignated set of numbers on a human made device, like a clock, or from some thing like the sun.
We experience temporarility. Without temporality all changes would happen simultaneously.
Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:30 pm
I am pretty sure that the human body can experience change without the need of this human made tool called 'time'.
Yes.
Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:30 pm
A 'measured amount' is just a tool to help human beings separate points of references, or events, from each other.
Yes.
Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:30 pm
But there is NO actual separation, nor is there any actual stopping of change of this one and only event.
What do you mean?

Age
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Re: How do we experience time?

Post by Age » Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:09 am

bahman wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:07 pm
Age wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:59 am
bahman wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:57 pm


Time to me is a quality of experience which allows change to be experienced in a proper rate.
And, what is that "proper" rate?
The rate that we experience changes. It is similar for all conscious being in a frame of reference and in the same gravitational force.
So, again what is the "proper" rate?

What happens if One Truly Conscious Being is in a different frame of reference and different gravitational force as other alleged "conscious" beings are?

What is the "proper" rate then?
bahman wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:07 pm
Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:30 pm
Does it just magically coincide with the human being made rate of one second, per say "one second"?
I think we adopt to this change through evolution.
I am not really sure what you are saying here exactly?

Do human beings adopt to varying rates of change, and thus also to varying frame of references and varying gravitational forces, through evolution?

What is the thing that is changing, through evolution, that human beings are adopting to?
bahman wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:07 pm
Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:30 pm
bahman wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:57 pm
Without it there cannot be any experience change or all changes experienced simultaneously.
I am not sure that you have a full grasp on this.

Tell me what is wrong with what I say here:

The word 'time' can be used to explain a measured period between two points of reference.
What is two point of reference?
Whatever is CHOSEN to be.

For example, one point can be when the sun was in a certain position, from a certain position on earth, to when it is next in that exact same position, from the exact same position on earth, or any thing else.

Another example, one point of reference can be when that agreed upon car left a certain position to when it arrived or crashed in another position.

Those two different positions (points of reference) in both examples can be talked about and agreed upon, which takes a bit of discussing. Or, human beings can just a measuring tool that they have devised, with agreed upon measured distances on it, and just say at from "this time" to "this time", which makes discussing much simpler and quicker.

Unfortunately though human beings then start SEE and BELIEVING things that are actually NOT really True.
bahman wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:07 pm
Two points in time?
No, because there is NO actual thing, let alone a physical thing, as 'time', from My perspective.

The agreed upon human devised and created tool of a clock, with human made measured distances with agreed upon set values, used to reference things, is so ingrained in the human being now, that the actual understanding of it and how it works is just taken for granted. The word 'time' has become so commonly used that human beings have started believing that there is an actual thing as 'time' existing.
bahman wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:07 pm
Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:30 pm
There is NO actual separation between any two points of reference temporally. There is only a measured amount, which is only known because of and from a predesignated set of numbers on a human made device, like a clock, or from some thing like the sun.
We experience temporarility. Without temporality all changes would happen simultaneously.
Of course human beings experience change. For any thing to NOT change is inexplicable. But change is only what human beings really experience, if they call change "temporality", then that is another matter. If a human being experiences 'time' and NOT change, then that is due to other matters, like self-talk and how the brain works.

Human beings also experience a sun revolving around them on a thing called planet earth. Is this reality?

Human beings experience lots of things, which have been given names and called some thing in particular. But how much of what human beings experience is actually True, Right, and Correct?
bahman wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:07 pm
Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:30 pm
I am pretty sure that the human body can experience change without the need of this human made tool called 'time'.
Yes.
Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:30 pm
A 'measured amount' is just a tool to help human beings separate points of references, or events, from each other.
Yes.
Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:30 pm
But there is NO actual separation, nor is there any actual stopping of change of this one and only event.
What do you mean?
There is only ONE event in continual constant-change.

There is NO actual separation in this ONE event, as human beings experience and believe there is.

Unless of course you can tell or show how and where there is an ACTUAL separation, within the Universe, Itself.

Human beings can put a temporal separation between two different points of reference and call those two different points two separate events. But on much closer inspection there NEVER was an actual separation between the two, absolutely anywhere. Only the human made separation.

Human beings experience a lot of supposed or perceived things, which really are NOT true at all.

For example, human beings experience separation between things but there is NO actual separation anywhere. There is only a perceived separation, and that is because the human brain better learns and understands by compartmentalizing the ONE and only WHOLE into perceived different things so that the brain/person can then make better sense of everything. The human brain is way to slow to be able to SEE ALL-THERE-IS at once, like the Mind can.


What happens, unfortunately, is after the brain compartmentalizes the one thing into separate things, then the brain LOOKS FOR and SEES things as being separate, and so then EXPERIENCES that way. What is more unfortunate is when the brain starts BELIEVING that what it is seeing as separation is True, then it forms a BELIEF that it already KNOWS what the truth is.

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bahman
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Re: How do we experience time?

Post by bahman » Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:42 pm

Age wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:09 am
bahman wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:07 pm
Age wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:59 am

And, what is that "proper" rate?
The rate that we experience changes. It is similar for all conscious being in a frame of reference and in the same gravitational force.
So, again what is the "proper" rate?
The rate that you experience it.
Age wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:09 am
What happens if One Truly Conscious Being is in a different frame of reference and different gravitational force as other alleged "conscious" beings are?

What is the "proper" rate then?
The rate becomes slower in higher gravitational field.
Age wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:09 am
bahman wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:07 pm
Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:30 pm
Does it just magically coincide with the human being made rate of one second, per say "one second"?
I think we adopt to this change through evolution.
I am not really sure what you are saying here exactly?

Do human beings adopt to varying rates of change, and thus also to varying frame of references and varying gravitational forces, through evolution?
Yes.
Age wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:09 am
What is the thing that is changing, through evolution, that human beings are adopting to?
Our lives condition. Our brain mainly and our body partially adopt to it.
Age wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:09 am
bahman wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:07 pm
Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:30 pm
I am not sure that you have a full grasp on this.

Tell me what is wrong with what I say here:

The word 'time' can be used to explain a measured period between two points of reference.
What is two point of reference?
Whatever is CHOSEN to be.

For example, one point can be when the sun was in a certain position, from a certain position on earth, to when it is next in that exact same position, from the exact same position on earth, or any thing else.

Another example, one point of reference can be when that agreed upon car left a certain position to when it arrived or crashed in another position.

Those two different positions (points of reference) in both examples can be talked about and agreed upon, which takes a bit of discussing. Or, human beings can just a measuring tool that they have devised, with agreed upon measured distances on it, and just say at from "this time" to "this time", which makes discussing much simpler and quicker.

Unfortunately though human beings then start SEE and BELIEVING things that are actually NOT really True.
So you believe that time is not real. It is part of our experience though.
Age wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:09 am
bahman wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:07 pm
Two points in time?
No, because there is NO actual thing, let alone a physical thing, as 'time', from My perspective.

The agreed upon human devised and created tool of a clock, with human made measured distances with agreed upon set values, used to reference things, is so ingrained in the human being now, that the actual understanding of it and how it works is just taken for granted. The word 'time' has become so commonly used that human beings have started believing that there is an actual thing as 'time' existing.
Could we agree that we experience time? If so where this experience comes from? Let's put all the discussion about devises and how we measure time aside.
Age wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:09 am
bahman wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:07 pm
Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:30 pm
There is NO actual separation between any two points of reference temporally. There is only a measured amount, which is only known because of and from a predesignated set of numbers on a human made device, like a clock, or from some thing like the sun.
We experience temporarility. Without temporality all changes would happen simultaneously.
Of course human beings experience change. For any thing to NOT change is inexplicable. But change is only what human beings really experience, if they call change "temporality", then that is another matter. If a human being experiences 'time' and NOT change, then that is due to other matters, like self-talk and how the brain works.

Human beings also experience a sun revolving around them on a thing called planet earth. Is this reality?

Human beings experience lots of things, which have been given names and called some thing in particular. But how much of what human beings experience is actually True, Right, and Correct?
We know that something like color does not exist in reality. But there is light which somehow stimulate our sensory system and somehow the color is experienced. For experience of time however there is not such a external thing. So the question is where such a impression comes from?

Age
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Re: How do we experience time?

Post by Age » Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:41 pm

bahman wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:42 pm
Age wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:09 am
bahman wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:07 pm

The rate that we experience changes. It is similar for all conscious being in a frame of reference and in the same gravitational force.
So, again what is the "proper" rate?
The rate that you experience it.
Okay, if this were even remotely to be correct, then whatever rate I experience change, then that is the "proper" rate, correct?

If yes, then if you, or any one else, were to say that they experience a different rate of change, then I could just tell you, or them, that what you experience is NOT the "proper" rate of change, because my rate of change is the proper one and you/they will just accept that. Is this correct?
bahman wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:42 pm
Age wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:09 am
What happens if One Truly Conscious Being is in a different frame of reference and different gravitational force as other alleged "conscious" beings are?

What is the "proper" rate then?
The rate becomes slower in higher gravitational field.
So, which is the "proper" rate?

The rate from the One Truly Conscious Being, or the rate from the other alleged "conscious" beings?
bahman wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:42 pm
Age wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:09 am
bahman wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:07 pm

I think we adopt to this change through evolution.
I am not really sure what you are saying here exactly?

Do human beings adopt to varying rates of change, and thus also to varying frame of references and varying gravitational forces, through evolution?
Yes.
Age wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:09 am
What is the thing that is changing, through evolution, that human beings are adopting to?
Our lives condition. Our brain mainly and our body partially adopt to it.
To me, it does not really make sense to say that our brain "mainly" and our body "partially" adopt to "it"?
1. WHAT is the "it" that the brain and body adopt to? (This was the original question here. You did NOT answer that question).
2. WHY brain "mainly" and body only "partially"?
3. To state the human beings are adopting to "some thing", through evolution, is just stating the blindingly obvious. If human beings did NOT adopt, then they would just be dead. The word 'evolution' actually infers changing/adopting. So, through evolution, ALL things change and adopt.

Now, you just have to explain what is this 'THING' that you say human beings are adopting to. And, then just explain HOW and WHY the human brain would adopt "mainly" but the rest of the human body would only adopt "partially".
bahman wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:42 pm
Age wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:09 am
bahman wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:07 pm

What is two point of reference?
Whatever is CHOSEN to be.

For example, one point can be when the sun was in a certain position, from a certain position on earth, to when it is next in that exact same position, from the exact same position on earth, or any thing else.

Another example, one point of reference can be when that agreed upon car left a certain position to when it arrived or crashed in another position.

Those two different positions (points of reference) in both examples can be talked about and agreed upon, which takes a bit of discussing. Or, human beings can just a measuring tool that they have devised, with agreed upon measured distances on it, and just say at from "this time" to "this time", which makes discussing much simpler and quicker.

Unfortunately though human beings then start SEE and BELIEVING things that are actually NOT really True.
So you believe that time is not real. It is part of our experience though.
No I do NOT believe that, NOR do I believe any thing else. Nor do I disbelieve any thing also.

I also neither believe nor disbelieve that time is part of My experience. I do accept however that, to YOU, time is real and a part of YOUR experience.

From what I have SEEN, however, I do SEE change within the one thing called "the Universe", and that this change is what some human beings call "time".
bahman wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:42 pm
Age wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:09 am
bahman wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:07 pm
Two points in time?
No, because there is NO actual thing, let alone a physical thing, as 'time', from My perspective.

The agreed upon human devised and created tool of a clock, with human made measured distances with agreed upon set values, used to reference things, is so ingrained in the human being now, that the actual understanding of it and how it works is just taken for granted. The word 'time' has become so commonly used that human beings have started believing that there is an actual thing as 'time' existing.
Could we agree that we experience time?
No, because then that would contradict My view and what I have been saying.
bahman wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:42 pm
If so where this experience comes from?
WHERE the experience of "time" comes from is WHERE I said in my last post, which you are responding to now. That is from the human brain, for reasons given in that same last post.
bahman wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:42 pm
Let's put all the discussion about devises and how we measure time aside.
Okay, but are you also prepared to put all the discussion about 'time' being a real thing aside also?
bahman wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:42 pm
Age wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:09 am
bahman wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:07 pm

We experience temporarility. Without temporality all changes would happen simultaneously.
Of course human beings experience change. For any thing to NOT change is inexplicable. But change is only what human beings really experience, if they call change "temporality", then that is another matter. If a human being experiences 'time' and NOT change, then that is due to other matters, like self-talk and how the brain works.

Human beings also experience a sun revolving around them on a thing called planet earth. Is this reality?

Human beings experience lots of things, which have been given names and called some thing in particular. But how much of what human beings experience is actually True, Right, and Correct?
We know that something like color does not exist in reality.
Am i included in this 'we'?

If i am, then i would NOT say that I knew this before just now.
bahman wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:42 pm
But there is light which somehow stimulate our sensory system and somehow the color is experienced.
This could also explain HOW and WHY what i stated about human beings experiencing change, but because of self-talk and how the brain works, some people BELIEVE that they are experiencing 'time' instead.
bahman wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:42 pm
For experience of time however there is not such a external thing.
But there is an external thing. It is called change.

ALL thoughts about any thing comes originally from an external source, which has been inputted into the brain, through any or all of the five senses of the sensory system.
bahman wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:42 pm
So the question is where such a impression comes from?
The impression of 'time' comes from the brain, as thought, but originally came from the body experiencing changes first.

All of this is really quite simple really. What the human body experiences, is grasped, through any or all of the fives senses, transmitted to the brain, becomes stored knowledge from that experiential learning, which then becomes a 'thought' (or knowledge), in one way or another.

Already gained thought/knowledge then influences how 'we' (human beings) then LOOK AT things from then on, as well as how 'we' (human beings) SEE things from then on also. How 'we' (human beings) then OBSERVE, (SEE and UNDERSTAND) things is ALWAYS depended upon and relative to the brain and what thought (knowledge) that it ALREADY has stored within it. What 'we' (human beings) then express (or output) can ONLY come from what has been input or put in, which obviously can, and does, come from an external source.

So, just like light "somehow stimulates" the sensory system and "somehow" color is experienced, so is change "somehow stimulating" the sensory system and "somehow" 'time' is experienced.

But as explained earlier, but just in minute detail for now, that because of self-talk, experiential learning, assumptions based on past experiences, and how the brain actually works by only being able to output only what has already been input, then because the senses of the human body experience change, and the only way to understand that better was to compartmentalize that change into separate segments, which eventually were given the name of "time", that is HOW so called "time" is experienced by human beings.

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bahman
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Re: How do we experience time?

Post by bahman » Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:47 pm

Age wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:41 pm
bahman wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:42 pm
Age wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:09 am

So, again what is the "proper" rate?
The rate that you experience it.
Okay, if this were even remotely to be correct, then whatever rate I experience change, then that is the "proper" rate, correct?
yes. The rate changes depending on where is the experiencer. That is why I used the proper.
Age wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:41 pm
If yes, then if you, or any one else, were to say that they experience a different rate of change, then I could just tell you, or them, that what you experience is NOT the "proper" rate of change, because my rate of change is the proper one and you/they will just accept that. Is this correct?
No, experiencers which are in the same gravitational field experience the same rate. Otherwise they experience different rate.
Age wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:41 pm
bahman wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:42 pm
Age wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:09 am
What happens if One Truly Conscious Being is in a different frame of reference and different gravitational force as other alleged "conscious" beings are?

What is the "proper" rate then?
The rate becomes slower in higher gravitational field.
So, which is the "proper" rate?

The rate from the One Truly Conscious Being, or the rate from the other alleged "conscious" beings?
By proper I mean related to gravitation field.
Age wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:41 pm
bahman wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:42 pm
Age wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:09 am

I am not really sure what you are saying here exactly?

Do human beings adopt to varying rates of change, and thus also to varying frame of references and varying gravitational forces, through evolution?
Yes.
Age wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:09 am
What is the thing that is changing, through evolution, that human beings are adopting to?
Our lives condition. Our brain mainly and our body partially adopt to it.
To me, it does not really make sense to say that our brain "mainly" and our body "partially" adopt to "it"?
1. WHAT is the "it" that the brain and body adopt to? (This was the original question here. You did NOT answer that question).
Condition is it.
Age wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:09 am
2. WHY brain "mainly" and body only "partially"?
Because I think that brain has huge capacity to evolve further unless the smart one doesn't marry. Just think of huge literature which has been produced by human being. Change to our bodies doesn't seems necessary to me.
Age wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:09 am
3. To state the human beings are adopting to "some thing", through evolution, is just stating the blindingly obvious. If human beings did NOT adopt, then they would just be dead. The word 'evolution' actually infers changing/adopting. So, through evolution, ALL things change and adopt.
Yes.
Age wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:09 am
Now, you just have to explain what is this 'THING' that you say human beings are adopting to. And, then just explain HOW and WHY the human brain would adopt "mainly" but the rest of the human body would only adopt "partially".
Condition is the "thing".
Age wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:09 am
bahman wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:42 pm
Age wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:09 am
Whatever is CHOSEN to be.

For example, one point can be when the sun was in a certain position, from a certain position on earth, to when it is next in that exact same position, from the exact same position on earth, or any thing else.

Another example, one point of reference can be when that agreed upon car left a certain position to when it arrived or crashed in another position.

Those two different positions (points of reference) in both examples can be talked about and agreed upon, which takes a bit of discussing. Or, human beings can just a measuring tool that they have devised, with agreed upon measured distances on it, and just say at from "this time" to "this time", which makes discussing much simpler and quicker.

Unfortunately though human beings then start SEE and BELIEVING things that are actually NOT really True.
So you believe that time is not real. It is part of our experience though.
No I do NOT believe that, NOR do I believe any thing else. Nor do I disbelieve any thing also.

I also neither believe nor disbelieve that time is part of My experience. I do accept however that, to YOU, time is real and a part of YOUR experience.

From what I have SEEN, however, I do SEE change within the one thing called "the Universe", and that this change is what some human beings call "time".
I see what do you mean and I don't agree with it. Time is real. One of the latest experiment shows that the existence of gravitational wave which confirms that time is real too. Otherwise time doesn't wave.
Age wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:09 am
bahman wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:42 pm
Age wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:09 am
No, because there is NO actual thing, let alone a physical thing, as 'time', from My perspective.

The agreed upon human devised and created tool of a clock, with human made measured distances with agreed upon set values, used to reference things, is so ingrained in the human being now, that the actual understanding of it and how it works is just taken for granted. The word 'time' has become so commonly used that human beings have started believing that there is an actual thing as 'time' existing.
Could we agree that we experience time?
No, because then that would contradict My view and what I have been saying.
I do experience time when I focus on it. My problem is how this experience constructed.
Age wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:09 am
bahman wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:42 pm
If so where this experience comes from?
WHERE the experience of "time" comes from is WHERE I said in my last post, which you are responding to now. That is from the human brain, for reasons given in that same last post.
I don't know how time is constructed.
Age wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:09 am
bahman wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:42 pm
Let's put all the discussion about devises and how we measure time aside.
Okay, but are you also prepared to put all the discussion about 'time' being a real thing aside also?
Yes. I already mentioned about gravitational wave.
Age wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:09 am
bahman wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:42 pm
Age wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:09 am
Of course human beings experience change. For any thing to NOT change is inexplicable. But change is only what human beings really experience, if they call change "temporality", then that is another matter. If a human being experiences 'time' and NOT change, then that is due to other matters, like self-talk and how the brain works.
Human beings also experience a sun revolving around them on a thing called planet earth. Is this reality?

Human beings experience lots of things, which have been given names and called some thing in particular. But how much of what human beings experience is actually True, Right, and Correct?
We know that something like color does not exist in reality.
Am i included in this 'we'?

If i am, then i would NOT say that I knew this before just now.
[/quote]
Yes. I didn't say "now" also.
Age wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:09 am
bahman wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:42 pm
But there is light which somehow stimulate our sensory system and somehow the color is experienced.
This could also explain HOW and WHY what i stated about human beings experiencing change, but because of self-talk and how the brain works, some people BELIEVE that they are experiencing 'time' instead.
You in fact can experience time when you only focus on it. So you don't experience time but motion if your mind is busy with something else.
Age wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:09 am
bahman wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:42 pm
So the question is where such a impression comes from?
The impression of 'time' comes from the brain, as thought, but originally came from the body experiencing changes first.

All of this is really quite simple really. What the human body experiences, is grasped, through any or all of the fives senses, transmitted to the brain, becomes stored knowledge from that experiential learning, which then becomes a 'thought' (or knowledge), in one way or another.

Already gained thought/knowledge then influences how 'we' (human beings) then LOOK AT things from then on, as well as how 'we' (human beings) SEE things from then on also. How 'we' (human beings) then OBSERVE, (SEE and UNDERSTAND) things is ALWAYS depended upon and relative to the brain and what thought (knowledge) that it ALREADY has stored within it. What 'we' (human beings) then express (or output) can ONLY come from what has been input or put in, which obviously can, and does, come from an external source.

So, just like light "somehow stimulates" the sensory system and "somehow" color is experienced, so is change "somehow stimulating" the sensory system and "somehow" 'time' is experienced.

But as explained earlier, but just in minute detail for now, that because of self-talk, experiential learning, assumptions based on past experiences, and how the brain actually works by only being able to output only what has already been input, then because the senses of the human body experience change, and the only way to understand that better was to compartmentalize that change into separate segments, which eventually were given the name of "time", that is HOW so called "time" is experienced by human beings.
So you are saying that our brain constructed the impression of mind?

Age
Posts: 1708
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: How do we experience time?

Post by Age » Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:20 pm

bahman wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:47 pm
Age wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:41 pm
bahman wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:42 pm

The rate that you experience it.
Okay, if this were even remotely to be correct, then whatever rate I experience change, then that is the "proper" rate, correct?
yes. The rate changes depending on where is the experiencer. That is why I used the proper.
Age wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:41 pm
If yes, then if you, or any one else, were to say that they experience a different rate of change, then I could just tell you, or them, that what you experience is NOT the "proper" rate of change, because my rate of change is the proper one and you/they will just accept that. Is this correct?
No, experiencers which are in the same gravitational field experience the same rate. Otherwise they experience different rate.
Age wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:41 pm
bahman wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:42 pm
The rate becomes slower in higher gravitational field.
So, which is the "proper" rate?

The rate from the One Truly Conscious Being, or the rate from the other alleged "conscious" beings?
By proper I mean related to gravitation field.
Age wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:41 pm
bahman wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:42 pm

Yes.


Our lives condition. Our brain mainly and our body partially adopt to it.
To me, it does not really make sense to say that our brain "mainly" and our body "partially" adopt to "it"?
1. WHAT is the "it" that the brain and body adopt to? (This was the original question here. You did NOT answer that question).
Condition is it.
Age wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:09 am
2. WHY brain "mainly" and body only "partially"?
Because I think that brain has huge capacity to evolve further unless the smart one doesn't marry. Just think of huge literature which has been produced by human being. Change to our bodies doesn't seems necessary to me.
Age wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:09 am
3. To state the human beings are adopting to "some thing", through evolution, is just stating the blindingly obvious. If human beings did NOT adopt, then they would just be dead. The word 'evolution' actually infers changing/adopting. So, through evolution, ALL things change and adopt.
Yes.
Age wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:09 am
Now, you just have to explain what is this 'THING' that you say human beings are adopting to. And, then just explain HOW and WHY the human brain would adopt "mainly" but the rest of the human body would only adopt "partially".
Condition is the "thing".
Age wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:09 am
bahman wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:42 pm

So you believe that time is not real. It is part of our experience though.
No I do NOT believe that, NOR do I believe any thing else. Nor do I disbelieve any thing also.

I also neither believe nor disbelieve that time is part of My experience. I do accept however that, to YOU, time is real and a part of YOUR experience.

From what I have SEEN, however, I do SEE change within the one thing called "the Universe", and that this change is what some human beings call "time".
I see what do you mean and I don't agree with it. Time is real. One of the latest experiment shows that the existence of gravitational wave which confirms that time is real too. Otherwise time doesn't wave.
Age wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:09 am
bahman wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:42 pm

Could we agree that we experience time?
No, because then that would contradict My view and what I have been saying.
I do experience time when I focus on it. My problem is how this experience constructed.
Age wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:09 am
bahman wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:42 pm
If so where this experience comes from?
WHERE the experience of "time" comes from is WHERE I said in my last post, which you are responding to now. That is from the human brain, for reasons given in that same last post.
I don't know how time is constructed.
Age wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:09 am
bahman wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:42 pm
Let's put all the discussion about devises and how we measure time aside.
Okay, but are you also prepared to put all the discussion about 'time' being a real thing aside also?
Yes. I already mentioned about gravitational wave.
Age wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:09 am
bahman wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:42 pm


Human beings also experience a sun revolving around them on a thing called planet earth. Is this reality?

Human beings experience lots of things, which have been given names and called some thing in particular. But how much of what human beings experience is actually True, Right, and Correct?
We know that something like color does not exist in reality.
Am i included in this 'we'?

If i am, then i would NOT say that I knew this before just now.
Yes. I didn't say "now" also.
Age wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:09 am
bahman wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:42 pm
But there is light which somehow stimulate our sensory system and somehow the color is experienced.
This could also explain HOW and WHY what i stated about human beings experiencing change, but because of self-talk and how the brain works, some people BELIEVE that they are experiencing 'time' instead.
You in fact can experience time when you only focus on it. So you don't experience time but motion if your mind is busy with something else.
Age wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:09 am
bahman wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:42 pm
So the question is where such a impression comes from?
The impression of 'time' comes from the brain, as thought, but originally came from the body experiencing changes first.

All of this is really quite simple really. What the human body experiences, is grasped, through any or all of the fives senses, transmitted to the brain, becomes stored knowledge from that experiential learning, which then becomes a 'thought' (or knowledge), in one way or another.

Already gained thought/knowledge then influences how 'we' (human beings) then LOOK AT things from then on, as well as how 'we' (human beings) SEE things from then on also. How 'we' (human beings) then OBSERVE, (SEE and UNDERSTAND) things is ALWAYS depended upon and relative to the brain and what thought (knowledge) that it ALREADY has stored within it. What 'we' (human beings) then express (or output) can ONLY come from what has been input or put in, which obviously can, and does, come from an external source.

So, just like light "somehow stimulates" the sensory system and "somehow" color is experienced, so is change "somehow stimulating" the sensory system and "somehow" 'time' is experienced.

But as explained earlier, but just in minute detail for now, that because of self-talk, experiential learning, assumptions based on past experiences, and how the brain actually works by only being able to output only what has already been input, then because the senses of the human body experience change, and the only way to understand that better was to compartmentalize that change into separate segments, which eventually were given the name of "time", that is HOW so called "time" is experienced by human beings.
So you are saying that our brain constructed the impression of mind?
[/quote]

You misconstrue and/or misunderstand what I say, make assumptions, follow those inevitably wrong assumptions, and go off down some other path with your own thinking without ever clarifying what I actually said and meant. You are to far gone to bring it back on track now.

Just continue thinking and believing what you are. You seem satisfied that you have all the answers, or a sufficient enough of them, anyway.

User avatar
bahman
Posts: 2024
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:52 pm

Re: How do we experience time?

Post by bahman » Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:05 pm

Sorry, I missed this post too.
Age wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:20 pm
bahman wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:47 pm
Age wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:41 pm


Okay, if this were even remotely to be correct, then whatever rate I experience change, then that is the "proper" rate, correct?
yes. The rate changes depending on where is the experiencer. That is why I used the proper.
Age wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:41 pm
If yes, then if you, or any one else, were to say that they experience a different rate of change, then I could just tell you, or them, that what you experience is NOT the "proper" rate of change, because my rate of change is the proper one and you/they will just accept that. Is this correct?
No, experiencers which are in the same gravitational field experience the same rate. Otherwise they experience different rate.
Age wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:41 pm


So, which is the "proper" rate?

The rate from the One Truly Conscious Being, or the rate from the other alleged "conscious" beings?
By proper I mean related to gravitation field.
Age wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:41 pm


To me, it does not really make sense to say that our brain "mainly" and our body "partially" adopt to "it"?
1. WHAT is the "it" that the brain and body adopt to? (This was the original question here. You did NOT answer that question).
Condition is it.
Age wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:09 am
2. WHY brain "mainly" and body only "partially"?
Because I think that brain has huge capacity to evolve further unless the smart one doesn't marry. Just think of huge literature which has been produced by human being. Change to our bodies doesn't seems necessary to me.
Age wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:09 am
3. To state the human beings are adopting to "some thing", through evolution, is just stating the blindingly obvious. If human beings did NOT adopt, then they would just be dead. The word 'evolution' actually infers changing/adopting. So, through evolution, ALL things change and adopt.
Yes.
Age wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:09 am
Now, you just have to explain what is this 'THING' that you say human beings are adopting to. And, then just explain HOW and WHY the human brain would adopt "mainly" but the rest of the human body would only adopt "partially".
Condition is the "thing".
Age wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:09 am


No I do NOT believe that, NOR do I believe any thing else. Nor do I disbelieve any thing also.

I also neither believe nor disbelieve that time is part of My experience. I do accept however that, to YOU, time is real and a part of YOUR experience.

From what I have SEEN, however, I do SEE change within the one thing called "the Universe", and that this change is what some human beings call "time".
I see what do you mean and I don't agree with it. Time is real. One of the latest experiment shows that the existence of gravitational wave which confirms that time is real too. Otherwise time doesn't wave.
Age wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:09 am


No, because then that would contradict My view and what I have been saying.
I do experience time when I focus on it. My problem is how this experience constructed.
Age wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:09 am

WHERE the experience of "time" comes from is WHERE I said in my last post, which you are responding to now. That is from the human brain, for reasons given in that same last post.
I don't know how time is constructed.
Age wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:09 am

Okay, but are you also prepared to put all the discussion about 'time' being a real thing aside also?
Yes. I already mentioned about gravitational wave.
Age wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:09 am

We know that something like color does not exist in reality.
Am i included in this 'we'?

If i am, then i would NOT say that I knew this before just now.
Yes. I didn't say "now" also.
Ok.
Age wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:09 am
Age wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:09 am
bahman wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:42 pm
But there is light which somehow stimulate our sensory system and somehow the color is experienced.
This could also explain HOW and WHY what i stated about human beings experiencing change, but because of self-talk and how the brain works, some people BELIEVE that they are experiencing 'time' instead.
You in fact can experience time when you only focus on it. So you don't experience time but motion if your mind is busy with something else.
I agree.

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