Dilemma of beginning of time

[Logik]

Like what? Can you give an example of something we know exists that's more complex than a human brain?
EB

You rally can't use your own imagination to come up with something?

There are so many trivial examples

I'm asking for known facts not imaginary ones.
You don't have any fact.
Here is a fact:

Behold the Most Complicated Object in the Known Universe
Dr. Michio Kaku tackles the most fascinating and complex object in the known universe: the human brain. For the first time in history, the secrets of the living brain are being revealed through high-tech brain scans devised by physicists. In The Future of the Mind, Kaku looks at the astonishing research being done in top laboratories around the world—all based on the latest advancements in neuroscience and physics.
https://www.wnyc.org/story/michio-kaku- ... man-brain/

EB

That's not a "known fact". That's popscience bullshit. This "thinking for yourself" thing isn't your forte is it?

If the brain is "the most complicated object in the known universe" guess what?
A human is more complicated. Because a human is a brain and then some.

You know what's more complicated than a human?
A family - because it's more than one human and more than one brain.
You know what's more complicated than a family? A community. A nation.

Society. 8 billion bodies (all with brains).

Do you want me to carry on?

Geosphere. Atmosphere. Hydrosphere. Biosphere.

Earth.

Solar system.

Galaxy.

More?

Galaxy cluster.

The observable universe

The uniobservable universe

A teenager can answer this trivia. What's your excuse?

[bahman]

The problem is that it takes infinite amount of time to reach from eternal past to now. Infinity cannot be reached.

???
Why is there any need to "reach from an eternal past to now"?

Because the now was eternal past. It is here now.

And why would that be a problem?

Infinity cannot be reached. That is very definition of infinity.

[Speakpigeon]

That's not a "known fact". That's popscience bullshit. This "thinking for yourself" thing isn't your forte is it? If the brain is "the most complicated object in the known universe" guess what?
A human is more complicated. Because a human is a brain and then some. You know what's more complicated than a human? A family - because it's more than one human and more than one brain. You know what's more complicated than a family? A community. A nation. Society. 8 billion bodies (all with brains). Do you want me to carry on? Geosphere. Atmosphere. Hydrosphere. Biosphere. Earth. Solar system. Galaxy. More? Galaxy cluster. The observable universe The uniobservable universe A teenager can answer this trivia. What's your excuse?

I knew you were an idiot.
EB

[Speakpigeon]

[Why is there any need to "reach from an eternal past to now"?

Because the now was eternal past. It is here now.

And why would that be a problem?

Infinity cannot be reached. That is very definition of infinity.

Sorry, you're not making sense. Infinity doesn't need to be reached. It just needs to be.
EB

[Logik]

I knew you were an idiot.
EB

If an idiot like me could think of something more complex than the brain, that doesn't say a lot about you. Does it?

[Logik]

Sorry, you're not making sense. Infinity doesn't need to be reached. It just needs to be.

Any conception of infinity you come up with is lesser than actual infinity.

You are still stuck with incompleteness.

[bahman]

[Why is there any need to "reach from an eternal past to now"?

Because the now was eternal past. It is here now.

And why would that be a problem?

Infinity cannot be reached. That is very definition of infinity.

Sorry, you're not making sense. Infinity doesn't need to be reached. It just needs to be.
EB

No, our problem in here is not about whether infinity can exist but whether it can be reached.

[Speakpigeon]

Infinity doesn't need to be reached. It just needs to be.

No, our problem in here is not about whether infinity can exist but whether it can be reached.

Reached by whom?
EB

[Speakpigeon]

Any conception of infinity you come up with is lesser than actual infinity.

Lesser? Like my concept of a glass of wine is less than an actual glass of wine because I can't get drunk on a concept?!
Yeah, I agree, the reality of your stupidity is far superior to any notion I could conjure of it.
EB

[Speakpigeon]

I knew you were an idiot.

If an idiot like me could think of something more complex than the brain, that doesn't say a lot about you. Does it?

No, it says you're an idiot.
EB

[bahman]

Infinity doesn't need to be reached. It just needs to be.

No, our problem in here is not about whether infinity can exist but whether it can be reached.

Reached by whom?
EB

We already discussed this. By no one. I am talking about passage of time when I say it takes time to reach from A to B.

[Logik]

I knew you were an idiot.

If an idiot like me could think of something more complex than the brain, that doesn't say a lot about you. Does it?

No, it says you're an idiot.
EB

Of course I am an idiot.

But you are an idiot squared.

Mr "The human brain is the most complex object in the universe".

[Speakpigeon]

No, our problem in here is not about whether infinity can exist but whether it can be reached.

Reached by whom?
EB

We already discussed this. By no one. I am talking about passage of time when I say it takes time to reach from A to B.

Passage of time relative to what?
EB

[bahman]

Reached by whom?
EB

We already discussed this. By no one. I am talking about passage of time when I say it takes time to reach from A to B.

Passage of time relative to what?
EB

Just passage of time.

[Dontaskme]

We are discussing two things in here: (1) Time cannot be emergent (cannot have any starting point) and (2) Time cannot be eternal. This leads to a dilemma. We first discuss (1) and then (2).

1) Time is the fundamental variable of any dynamical theory. Time therefore cannot be emergent variable of a dynamical theory since time cannot be emergent and fundamental variable at the same time. Therefore there is no theory that can explain the origin of time, in another word, time cannot have any beginning.

2) Time cannot be eternal since it takes infinite amount of time to reach from eternal past to now.

So here is the dilemma: Time can neither have any beginning nor can be eternal.

Time can only be in time...a finite appearance within infinite timelessness.

Infinity cannot complete.

Time is pure magic.

.