Nick_A wrote: ↑Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:40 am
You seem closed to both a sense of scale and relativity. You don't see that religion is a relative concept and how small we are as compared to our vast universe. Are Islam and sufism the same to you? I remember having a wonderful discussion with two Sufis on the concept of light while Christians were being killed in the mid east.
If you can be open to the Transcendent Unity of Religions then we can communicate But if you insist on limiting yourself to the exoteric perspective, we cannot communicate since your concept of religion is different than mine
You too quick in jumping to conclusion.
Having put a ton of work on the subject, I believe my understanding of spirituality and religion is above average.
I am very well verse with the relation between spirituality, religion and humans.
It is SO obvious we are relatively very minute within the universe [infinite].
I understand Sufis and Muslims relation to Islam very well.
Sufis do not practice Islam-proper fully but merely adopt whatever spiritual and humane elements within Islam to serve their purpose.
The majority of Muslims do not follow the ideology of Islam seriously and thoroughly. It is only a 20% percentile and the fundamentalists & extremists who comply with the doctrines of Islam more closely culminating in the evident terrible evil and violent acts.
As I had stated above;
"I am very well verse with the relation between spirituality, religion and humans."
So I understand very well where you are coming from.
The difference is you lack the understanding of yourself as a human being.
The more effective approach is not the transcendental unity of religions but the unity within the diversity of humanity
, spirituality and religions.
Note ALL human beings share the same DNA at the most fundamentally level
and that manifest a wide range of human behaviors in a systematic and taxonomic hierarchical pattern. I have no problem understanding where you fit into the overall jigsaw puzzle of humanity.
Your problem is you only know certain parts of the jigsaw puzzle and do not have awareness of the completed edges.
https://integralscience.wordpress.com/1 ... religions/
Frithjof Schuon, a scholar and an authority on Comparative
Religion and the Sophia Perennis, has written a book called
The Transcendent Unity Of Religions. As its title
indicates, the book is about the unity of religious wisdom.
And as the use of the definite article indicates, this unity
is unique. But it is essential to observe that this unity is
also transcendent, i.e., the unity is in the spirit and not
in the letter.
Schuon uses the terms esoteric and exoteric to distinguish
the transcendent spirit of religions from their diverse
formal expressions. A useful diagram can be made which helps
illustrate the essence of this idea:
The diagram either makes sense to you or it doesn't. All petty nonsense takes place at the exoteric level. Some realize it and try to become part of the esoteric level which is the awakening path leading to the transcendent level which is the origin of all the great traditions.
"I am very well verse with the relation between spirituality, religion and humans,"
I have no problem with the understanding the diagram and its shortfall in covering the whole of humanity and its place in the universe.
Note I stated ALL human beings has a generic DNA at the fundamental level. One need as much knowledge of this and how it effects the whole pattern of humanity's behavior.
I have discussed the above pattern in a wider perspective earlier.
First you need to re-analyze the above diagram into the following main categories;
- 1. Theistic religions and spirituality - e.g. Abrahamic, Hinduism [majority], etc.
2. Non-theistic religions and spirituality - e.g. Buddhism, Jainism, others
I have stated a few times with regards of the level of spirituality attainable within each of the above categories, i.e.
- 1. Theistic religions and spirituality - Spiritual level from 1 to 75%
2. Non-theistic religions and spirituality - Spiritual level from 1 to 95%
The spirituality that you are engaging has the attainable maximum limit of 75%.
The non-theistic spirituality has a maximum potentiality and possibility of 95%.
You need to understand this gap 20% between 75% and 90%.
Note this numbers are not meant to be precise but only to denote the relative differences.
Why the spirituality you adopt is limited to a spirituality level of 75% is because your type of spirituality is ignorant or are turning off the knowledge of human fundamentals stretching back to the generic DNA, brain/mind, etc and the ESSENTIAL psychological elements.
Now if you understand how the DNA and brain/mind works and then work your brain/mind thoroughly and reasonably you would not cling too much on any illusory transcendental reality [being, entity, Absolute, God] beyond human reality.
What you are ignorant or are in denial is the fact;
you and the majority are merely a "beast" at the core who has inherited some basic degree of self-awareness and crude primal reasoning, and who is evolving slowly with these inherent basic elements.
With such basic tools how can you and your likes be so sure what you are claiming [God exists] is really real and not due to the above limited psychological factors desperately pinning [subliminally] for psychological comfort and security?
So whatever claims re spirituality you are making, you must qualify it with reservations of this large knowledge vacuum/gap within you and thus reduce the confidence level of your claims accordingly.
Btw, what spiritual exercises [mentally and physically] are you doing to cultivate spirituality within your brain besides merely believing the literal statements/sayings of Simone's Weil and others based on faith 'God exists'.
I anticipate you will ignore the above due to being straight-jacketed intellectually and will desperately forced [blindly] the above into a negative pigeon hole of yours [straw man, red herring] and condemned them wholesale.
Therefore those who insist consciousness is received externally from some thing, they are spiritually immature with a potential spiritual achievement of 75% relatively in contrast to a possible 95% from certain more mature spiritual practices.