Free agent cannot be created

So what's really going on?

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Logik
Posts: 4048
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Re: Free agent cannot be created

Post by Logik » Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:04 pm

Age wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:00 pm
Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:33 am
You are incapable of carrying a conversation. I'll ignore 20-30 self-contradictory ramblings and just quote 3 things.
Saying that there is a number of things but also saying you will ignore some of them and list only three of them, some people might infer as being a complete over exaggeration. Without any evidence of there being 20-30 self contradictory so called "ramblings" and then NOT even producing one supposedly self-contradictory any thing, might leave the readers wondering what is really going on here?

As you failed to answer ANY of My open clarification questions also in regards to your other numbered accusations about me, then what some might infer could well be VERY TRUE.
Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:33 am
Age wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:16 am
But to me EVERY one is a voice of the absolute or something.

Do you assume, think, or believe that ALL things are NOT a part of the absolute or something?
All things are part of the absolute but do you comprehend that every voice is still basically just originating from what's going on in that human's head?
You obviously missed the point.
Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:33 am
The human has no access to some greater inherent knowledge, no matter how open he/she is.
So, you allude to there being some greater inherent knowledge, but no human has access to it.

Is there some greater inherent knowledge?

Is there a Universal knowledge?

If, according to you, there is NOT, then WHY even mention them?
Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:33 am
So WHY write like you are absolutely sure of things?
I don't, that may be your belief/projection.
Are you absolutely sure that you do not do this?

When you write things like: The human has no access to some greater inherent knowledge, no matter how open he/she is., which you actually wrote the very sentence before this sentence, then that, to me anyway, comes across as, and appears very strongly as, though you BELIEVE that you KNOW absolutely, for sure, of some things.
Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:33 am
I'm not absolutely sure of anything and anyone who claims to be, isn't very bright.
So then WHY do "people like you" BELIEVE some things, when in fact you are NOT even absolutely sure that it is actually true, right, or even correct?

And, when you say things like: The human has no access to some greater inherent knowledge, no matter how open he/she is.


What do you actually mean by this statement:

Are you saying,
That it could actually be FALSE, WRONG, and/or INCORRECT? Or,
Partly false, wrong, and/or incorrect? Or,
That you are absolutely sure that this statement is True, Right, and/or Correct?

If it is either of the former two, then you certainly do NOT portray that in any way, shape, nor form.

You really do come across, to me anyway, as though you KNOW, for sure, what thee Truth IS.
Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:33 am
And by the way there is ONE thing that can be KNOWN and be absolutely sure about.
No, there isn't.
AGAIN, are you absolutely sure of this? OR, are you NOT sure if there is ONE thing that can be KNOWN and be absolutely sure about?

You certainly come across as the former, AGAIN.
Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:33 am
If you believe that there is one such thing then name it.
But I neither believe, nor disbelieve, any thing, so then I will NOT name it. If I was to name it, then I WOULD BE contradicting My self.

You have yet to SHOW one self-contradictory statement I have made. I do NOT want to start giving you any now.
Wow. You are annoyingly stupid.

And before you even ask (because I know you will). Yes I am 100% certain.

Age
Posts: 2099
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Free agent cannot be created

Post by Age » Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:09 pm

Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:51 am
Logik wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:46 am
So you aren't sure that's the game idiots play?
I'm not sure.
So you are certain that the answer to the question is undefined.
I'm not certain.

If I really have to put it some way then I'd say the answer is undefined. I'm neither certain nor not-certain.
So, are you certain that I have to have BELIEFS and BELIEVE, or are you not certain about this now?
Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:51 am
Many idiots base entire belief systems on the absolute certainty game - they can't handle that there's inherent uncertainty even about inherent uncertainty.
Yet all along you have been insisting, with apparent certainty, that I must have BELIEFS and BELIEVE.

Are you NOW going to suggest, and admit, that I may actually NOT have BELIEFS at all, and may in fact neither believe nor disbelieve any thing also?

By the way, what you are NOW saying about 'idiots' and 'belief-system' and CERTAINTY is EXACTLY what I have been SAYING ALL ALONG. You were, because of YOUR BELIEF, just to deaf to HEAR WHAT I WAS ACTUALLY SAYING.

Age
Posts: 2099
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Free agent cannot be created

Post by Age » Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:20 pm

Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:57 am
Logik wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:52 am
You can't escape the trap.

Even on a continuum you have drawn a line somewhere that is "sufficiently" certain or uncertain. You you comfortable with the level of uncertainty that the evidence is sufficient enough to say it.

Your word signals your commitment.
There's no trap. We do have to draw a line somewhere and claim it to be "sufficient" certainty,
Do "we" REALLY have to draw a line somewhere, AND, claim that line to be "sufficient" certainty?

If, to you, "we" really HAVE TO do this, then WHY do "we" HAVE TO do this?

Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:57 am
but that's just a necessary convention.
WHY is this, supposedly, "just a NECESSARY convention"?
Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:57 am
It can never be absolute certainty.
Is that an absolute CERTAIN fact?

And, WHY do you state "it" (whatever 'it' is here) can NEVER be absolute certainty? Does NOT the word 'NEVER' state an absolute certainty, in and of itself? Could this statement appear as VERY self-contradictory, in and of itself?
Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:57 am
A more open person than Age always keeps this in mind.
So, WHAT are you basing the "more open person than Age" on actually? I am the one who says that I neither believe nor disbelieve any thing, and, that I do NOT want to assume any thing at all whatsoever. Whereas, you are the one insisting, with apparent absolute certainty, that ALL human beings HAVE BELIEFS, MUST BELIEVE, and MAKE ASSUMPTIONS. So, if ALL human beings do that, then how are they, or how could they be, more open than one who does NOT do what is obviously what causes you, human beings, to be closed, and thus NOT open?

Atla
Posts: 1804
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:27 am

Re: Free agent cannot be created

Post by Atla » Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:25 pm

Age wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:00 pm
...
Ok you don't seem to have understood anything I wrote so far, and nothing you write makes sense.

If overall you aren't stating anything, then what are you writing about for dozens of pages? What are you trying to learn to communicate better, if you aren't communicating anything?

Age
Posts: 2099
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Free agent cannot be created

Post by Age » Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:29 pm

Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 12:40 pm
Logik wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 12:00 pm
Forget absolute certainty. There's infinite room for disagreement on where one ought to draw the line.

You have drawn it at 51%. Why not 50.99999999999999%? Why not 51.0000000000000000001%?

You seem rather certain about the number 51. You seem rather certain on what is "sufficient" certainty.
Where it's best to draw the line is another issue. But I'm pretty sure no one would draw it around 0-10%. Which is I think about how much certainty we can assign to claims of mystical universal knowledge, based on zero available evidence.
You have mentioned this 'universal knowledge' a couple of times already. Now you say there is 0-10% certainty that could be assigned to A 'MYSTICAL universal knowledge'. Are you now saying that there is between none and some percentage of certainty that some thing "mystical" could exist, even with zero available evidence?

Also, considering that absolutely NO evidence exists for some thing, then, to Me anyway, I find it rather strange that you would give that thing with zero evidence up to 10% certainty.

Besides all of that I wonder WHY you would give certainty to any thing at all. WHY NOT just remain OPEN ALWAYS, instead?

Age
Posts: 2099
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Free agent cannot be created

Post by Age » Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:32 pm

Logik wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:04 pm
Age wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:00 pm
Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:33 am
You are incapable of carrying a conversation. I'll ignore 20-30 self-contradictory ramblings and just quote 3 things.
Saying that there is a number of things but also saying you will ignore some of them and list only three of them, some people might infer as being a complete over exaggeration. Without any evidence of there being 20-30 self contradictory so called "ramblings" and then NOT even producing one supposedly self-contradictory any thing, might leave the readers wondering what is really going on here?

As you failed to answer ANY of My open clarification questions also in regards to your other numbered accusations about me, then what some might infer could well be VERY TRUE.
Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:33 am
All things are part of the absolute but do you comprehend that every voice is still basically just originating from what's going on in that human's head?
You obviously missed the point.
Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:33 am
The human has no access to some greater inherent knowledge, no matter how open he/she is.
So, you allude to there being some greater inherent knowledge, but no human has access to it.

Is there some greater inherent knowledge?

Is there a Universal knowledge?

If, according to you, there is NOT, then WHY even mention them?
Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:33 am
I don't, that may be your belief/projection.
Are you absolutely sure that you do not do this?

When you write things like: The human has no access to some greater inherent knowledge, no matter how open he/she is., which you actually wrote the very sentence before this sentence, then that, to me anyway, comes across as, and appears very strongly as, though you BELIEVE that you KNOW absolutely, for sure, of some things.
Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:33 am
I'm not absolutely sure of anything and anyone who claims to be, isn't very bright.
So then WHY do "people like you" BELIEVE some things, when in fact you are NOT even absolutely sure that it is actually true, right, or even correct?

And, when you say things like: The human has no access to some greater inherent knowledge, no matter how open he/she is.


What do you actually mean by this statement:

Are you saying,
That it could actually be FALSE, WRONG, and/or INCORRECT? Or,
Partly false, wrong, and/or incorrect? Or,
That you are absolutely sure that this statement is True, Right, and/or Correct?

If it is either of the former two, then you certainly do NOT portray that in any way, shape, nor form.

You really do come across, to me anyway, as though you KNOW, for sure, what thee Truth IS.
Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:33 am
No, there isn't.
AGAIN, are you absolutely sure of this? OR, are you NOT sure if there is ONE thing that can be KNOWN and be absolutely sure about?

You certainly come across as the former, AGAIN.
Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:33 am
If you believe that there is one such thing then name it.
But I neither believe, nor disbelieve, any thing, so then I will NOT name it. If I was to name it, then I WOULD BE contradicting My self.

You have yet to SHOW one self-contradictory statement I have made. I do NOT want to start giving you any now.
Wow. You are annoyingly stupid.

And before you even ask (because I know you will). Yes I am 100% certain.
I was NOT even going to ask any thing. But now I will.

WHAT did you ASSUME I was going to ask?

Age
Posts: 2099
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Free agent cannot be created

Post by Age » Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:46 pm

Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:25 pm
Age wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:00 pm
...
Ok you don't seem to have understood anything I wrote so far, and nothing you write makes sense.
But I am pretty sure I UNDERSTAND what it is that you want me to understand.

Are you SURE that NOTHING I write, makes sense, to you?
Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:25 pm
If overall you aren't stating anything,
But I am stating some thing, That is; I neither believe nor disbelieve any thing. You, unfortunately, are UNABLE to accept this nor to agree to it.

The very reason you UNABLE TO, IS blatantly OBVIOUS.

NOTICE how after all these writings you still are UNABLE to recognize nor SEE what I have been stating?
Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:25 pm
then what are you writing about for dozens of pages? What are you trying to learn to communicate better,
HOW to get through to people, like you, who have very strongly held onto BELIEFS.
Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:25 pm
if you aren't communicating anything?
If you are NOT able to comprehend any thing at all that I am stating, then I just NEED to learn how to communicate better to those people who are very CLOSED to any thing other than what they BELIEVE is thee Truth, just like 'you'.

Atla
Posts: 1804
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:27 am

Re: Free agent cannot be created

Post by Atla » Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:04 pm

Age wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:46 pm
...
You still assume that others are idiots. And you don't seem to have understood anything I wrote so far.

Again: I have no "absolute" beliefs: everything I think can change, can be refuted, can be thrown out.

But what more is there to say about this? You say you neither believe nor disbelieve anything, but then what the fuck are you talking about for dozens of pages? What are you trying to communicate? You sure don't look like someone without beliefs.

Age
Posts: 2099
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Free agent cannot be created

Post by Age » Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:48 pm

Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:04 pm
Age wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:46 pm
...
You still assume that others are idiots. And you don't seem to have understood anything I wrote so far.
YOUR ASSUMPTION is totally and utterly WRONG.

You are the one who is NOT understanding any thing I write, ALSO.

How many times do I have to TELL you that I NEVER assumed that others are idiots, BEFORE you will UNDERSTAND this?
Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:04 pm
Again: I have no "absolute" beliefs: everything I think can change, can be refuted, can be thrown out.
OF COURSE what IS thought can change, can be refuted, can be thrown out. BUT, by definition, what IS BELIEVED can NOT be changed, can NOT be refuted, nor can NOT be thrown out. The very fact of whilst having and holding onto a BELIEF quashes, prevents, and stops the very ability to do those things
Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:04 pm
But what more is there to say about this? You say you neither believe nor disbelieve anything, but then what the fuck are you talking about for dozens of pages?

What I have been doing for pages, WITH YOU, is TRYING TO get you to prove THAT, what you have been INSISTING that I do. I said; I neither believe nor disbelieve any thing. You, however, BELIEVED that this is impossible and have been continually insisting that I do actually have beliefs, and believe.

If you STOPPED insisting this, then we could have STOPPED talking about this (dozens??) pages ago.

If you keep persisting that you KNOW, for sure, what is in this head, then I will keep questioning you. I do this to SHOW how much, or how little, you really do know.

When you stop insisting, then we can stop talking.

As I asked you previously, do you just want me to roll over and say that atla IS RIGHT and CORRECT?
Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:04 pm
What are you trying to communicate?
I AM COMMUNICATING that you do NOT know what is within this head. You are just unable to understand this fact.

You accuse me of teaching some absolutely absurd thing. I have told you that I am on here to LEARN how to communicate better, and NOT necessarily on here to to communicate any thing, to any one that I am responding to on here anyway.

I am using people, like you on this forum, to communicate to an audience just How the Mind and the brain work, and how BELIEFS can and do actually prevent and STOP you, human beings, from learning and becoming wiser.

You also insist that there is NO universal knowledge, and, that I have NO access to it, which is of absolutely NO concern to me. Yet it just SHOWS how much you BELIEVE that you are absolutely certain about some things. Once again, BELIEFS interfering with and SHOWING how a human being's ability to learn and SEE the actual Truth of things is completely prevented by those BELIEFS.

These are the things that I want to learn how to communicate better.

You accuse me of being "just another insane person", which leaves me wondering WHY would you even bother having discussions, for so called "dozens" of pages with me then?

That is just some of the things that I have been talking about WITH YOU, over some pages.
Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:04 pm
You sure don't look like someone without beliefs.
Once again, you will NOT give up on this issue, will you? IF you WANT to keep insisting that I have BELIEFS, then I will once again keep insisting that you to provide some examples of what you BELIEVE that I supposedly have BELIEFS about.

When you provide these examples, like you did previously, then we can a look at them, like we did previously, and then I can acknowledge whether I actually have that BELIEF or whether I do NOT have that BELIEF, like I did previously.

WHEN will you EVER understand what I state. That is; I neither believe nor disbelieve any thing.

By the way, what does someone actually look like without beliefs?

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bahman
Posts: 2049
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:52 pm

Re: Free agent cannot be created

Post by bahman » Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:49 pm

Age wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:28 am
bahman wrote:
Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:22 pm
Age wrote:
Tue Dec 25, 2018 11:33 pm
In other words EVERY thing, or EVERY physical thing, is either one correct?
Every thing only. To me physical is caused by Mind/Minds/minds.
Age wrote:
Tue Dec 25, 2018 11:33 pm

I think the only real difference between what 'you' and 'I' see here is;
You see, There are many free agents that can not be created. Whereas,
I see, There is only One free agent that always exists.
There are at least two free agents.
Are you using the word 'are' here, like this is the one and only absolute Truth?
Yes.
Age wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:28 am
bahman wrote:
Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:22 pm
One who is you who cause certain things which you are aware you do. The rest of changes can be assigned to another free agent.
But before you said there is a Mind, Minds, or minds, which is the free agent/s, within EVERY thing.
Yes, but I only have the proof that there are at least two free agents in here.
Age wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:28 am
Now, if EVERY thing has a free agent within it, then the chances of there being one free agent in this body and "another" separate but just one more free agent in absolutely EVERY other body, seems very highly unlikely, to me.
Why?
Age wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:28 am
By the way, when you wrote: One who is you who cause certain things which you are aware you do. is NOT a free agent. This one [the 'you'], which is just a small 'i', who is 'me', IS just the thoughts and emotions, within this body. This one is NOT a free agent because 'i' only exist because of the body that 'i' am in, and, because of the past experiences that this body has experienced. 'i', therefore, am created, just like every thing else is, except for that what is NOT created, that is; the Free Agent, sometimes known as by the Mind, and, the Universe Itself.
So you don't believe that you are a free agent?
Age wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:28 am
The 'I', as in the question 'Who am 'I'?', is A Free Agent. This 'I', of which there is only One of, exists always, can NOT be created, and is a Truly Free Agent. This is the same One that exists within EVERY thing and which causes/creates EVERY thing, the way It is, through ALL physical matter, to me anyway.
I see. Let's please discuss this in another thread, Mind or minds.
Age wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:28 am
bahman wrote:
Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:22 pm
Age wrote:
Tue Dec 25, 2018 11:33 pm
The trouble I have is YOUR 'free agents' come into and out existence, and thus they are created, and then they disappear. They are like the X that is caused into Y, when the X disappears.
His mind does not come into and out of existence.
Who is the one you are referring to now as 'his'?
The free agent.
Age wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:28 am
bahman wrote:
Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:22 pm
His mind simply exists.
Who's mind, supposedly, simply exists. And, why is this 'who' referred to as a 'he'?
Mind of free agent simply exist.
Age wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:28 am
bahman wrote:
Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:22 pm
He only as a being/thing comes into and out of existence because he comes into and out of a body.
Are you sure this is helping to clarify things here? Even with yourself?
Yes.
Age wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:28 am
There really is a much more simpler and easier way to explain ALL of this, and with precise clear language. However, you want to keep insisting and BELIEVING that there ARE at least two minds/free agents existing. So, I will leave you to this BELIEF.
I offered two argument in here. One was about the existence of mind whenever there is a change. Another one was about the existence of two mind. Do you have any issue with first argument? Let's please discuss the second argument in another thread.

Age wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:28 am
bahman wrote:
Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:22 pm
Age wrote:
Tue Dec 25, 2018 11:33 pm
Yes, you defined 'mind' as the essence of 'me' and 'me' is the being/thing of EVERY object. There are therefore as many 'minds' as there are objects, and these 'minds' only come into existence when there is an object, which by the way ALL and EVERY object IS CREATED. Therefore, meaning EVERY 'me' IS also CREATED. Now, WHERE is the supposed 'free agent' that is supposedly NOT created?
Your mind is not created.
Who is the 'your' that you are referring to here?

The word 'your' also implies ownership, so who/what is or could be this owner of 'mind'?
You who own your mind.
Age wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:28 am
bahman wrote:
Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:22 pm
The physical that you are attached to it is created.
Yes I agree, but you are the one saying there are different 'minds', which are separately attached or the different essence of different physical objects.
Great.
Age wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:28 am
bahman wrote:
Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:22 pm
Age wrote:
Tue Dec 25, 2018 11:33 pm
How can 'minds' be STRUCTURED differently if they are supposedly 'free agents that are NOT created'?
The way that 'minds' are connected together make an object what it is.
What is the way that 'minds' are supposedly connected together?
Consider there are three mind, A,B and C. These could be structured in different way like, ABC ,BAC, etc.
Age wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:28 am
Also, are you absolutely positively 100% sure that what you are saying about 'minds' IS True, Right, and Correct?
Yes.
Age wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:28 am
bahman wrote:
Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:22 pm
Age wrote:
Tue Dec 25, 2018 11:33 pm
Well then, by definition, it is NOT supreme.
Well, if you define supreme as absolute power then it does not exist.
Why do you think or believe that 'absolute power' does NOT exist?
Your 'if/then' sentence does not logically follow.
It follows. This I discuss it in another thread, Mind and minds. It is related to Cantor's theorem and the universal set.
Age wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:28 am
bahman wrote:
Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:22 pm
If you define supreme as the strongest who exists right now then supreme exists.
We could define 'supreme' as the strongest who exists right NOW. 'NOW' being the eternal NOW.
This supreme One, with absolute power, exists eternally NOW. It is because of this One that the Universe IS Created the way It IS, eternally NOW.
Great.
Age wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:28 am
bahman wrote:
Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:22 pm
Age wrote:
Tue Dec 25, 2018 11:33 pm
Your explanation in that discussion, to me, does NOT logically follow.
I already answer to all your questions in another thread. Let's hope that things work out.
Age wrote:
Tue Dec 25, 2018 11:33 pm
So, 'me' is EVERY thing, is this right?
No. There exist many 'me', such as me and you.
So, 'me' is mind and body/physical, and, so is 'you' mind and body/physical, also.
Now explain how 'we', me and you, are connected and working together here.
We interact through physical and connected by physical.
Age wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:28 am
To Me, 'me' and 'you' appear to be having VERY DIFFERENT ideas about how many Mind/minds there are, and NOT really working together at all here.
Yes. That is true. Let's please discuss this in another thread.
Age wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:28 am
My view is that I can explain very specifically and in great minute detail how there is only one Mind, which will also explain how the Mind and the brain work together, and through this working together then how a Truly peaceful harmonious world CAN BE created for everyone to live in together.
Could you please provide your argument about Mind in another thread?
Age wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:28 am
Whereas, your view is that there are more than one mind, but when I ask you clarify this so that EVERYONE could understand this view better, you appear, to me anyway, NOT to be clearing things up at all really.
Yes.
Age wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:28 am
bahman wrote:
Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:22 pm
Age wrote:
Tue Dec 25, 2018 11:33 pm
Wait for My definition of WHAT exactly?
How do you define a being, yourself for example?
Just for the moment let us disregard the word 'yourself', as this can be a very tricky word to understand fully. But anyway how i define 'being' can be in two ways;
1. There is 'being', small b, this is the word in the term 'human being' for example. I class the 'human' part of this as the physical human body, and the 'being' part as the thoughts and the emotions in that physical body. The thoughts and emotions are obviously invisible to the human physical eye, so they can be related to the 'being' part of a 'human being'. This 'being' is also the person, or personality, part. Or, also the self. This self is NOT who one really IS, but this self is who one THINKS they are. This self is individual and different and held within the individual and different brains.

2. There is 'Being', big B, this is the absolute and True Self. This is ultimate answer to the question Who am 'I'? question. The answer to this question IS KNOWN to be Right when absolutely EVERY thing is in agreement with thee answer. This Self is a collective of ALL-THERE-IS. This is what I refer to as thee One and only Mind.
How could this picture be true knowing the fact that experiences are local? There should be one experience if there is a Mind.
Age wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:28 am
bahman wrote:
Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:22 pm
Age wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 10:44 am
All sounds very confusing.
Why?
Because why would 'i' be privileged enough to have one of these at least two minds, and EVERY one else has to share the other mind, AND, if there is one completely separate mind for each completely separate particle of matter, then that infers that each mind comes into existence and out of existence with each particle of matter, thus each of these minds MUST therefore be created also, with each created particle of matter.
So there are two things in here: (1) My model in which each being/thing has a mind and (2) The arguement for existence of two minds (I just don't have any argument for more mind yet).
Age wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:28 am
If you do NOT want what your saying to sound so confusing, then at least clear this part up; How many minds are there?
There are many minds out there but I have the proof for only two minds right now.
Age wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:28 am
(Also, on some very quick reflection I can now SEE how there could be as many minds as there are particles of matter. But you will still NEED some explaining to do).
The reality is that we know that they experience and cause. So they are very similar to human being in the sense that human also experiences and causes.
Age wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:28 am
bahman wrote:
Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:22 pm
They have three main problems: (1) How matter activity can give rise to consciousness (matter is unconscious so where consciousness comes from, I have an argument that emergence is impossible),
Would you care to share this argument?
I have a thread on this topic on here: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=25784
Age wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:28 am
bahman wrote:
Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:22 pm
(2) Why consciousness exists (why things don't evolve in dark)
Would you care to elaborate?
Of course. Materialism is a system of idea in which matter move based on laws of nature. Matter as far as we observe can function without consciousness. So the question is what is the use of consciousness?
Age wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:28 am
bahman wrote:
Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:22 pm
and (3) The problem of free will (I have an argument for that).
Firstly, what is the, supposed, "problem" of free will? And, would you care to share that argument also?
I have a thread on this in here: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=23353
Age wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:28 am
Also, do ALL of your arguments fit together perfectly soundly and validly, and so that EVERY one CAN agree with them?
I think we need to discuss them to expand it such that they sound well to every one.
Age wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:28 am
If no, then just maybe your arguments need some work done on them.
Actually I am thinking of publision some of my argument. I am however a physicist and not familar with writting style of philosopher so I don't think if I could be successful in publishing them. Perhaps you could help me with that if you have any spare time.
Age wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:28 am
Are you aware that your arguments would have to sound, valid arguments, which if they were, then they would SHOW an unambiguous fact that could NOT be dispute, and thus could NOT be refuted by absolutely ANY thing, anyway. ALL you would be doing is just SHOWING thee Truth.
I think so.

Atla
Posts: 1804
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:27 am

Re: Free agent cannot be created

Post by Atla » Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:09 pm

Age wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:48 pm
YOUR ASSUMPTION is totally and utterly WRONG.

You are the one who is NOT understanding any thing I write, ALSO.

How many times do I have to TELL you that I NEVER assumed that others are idiots, BEFORE you will UNDERSTAND this?
You can lie as many times as you want.
OF COURSE what IS thought can change, can be refuted, can be thrown out. BUT, by definition, what IS BELIEVED can NOT be changed, can NOT be refuted, nor can NOT be thrown out. The very fact of whilst having and holding onto a BELIEF quashes, prevents, and stops the very ability to do those things
Your definition of "belief" is idiotic. Some beliefs can change, some beliefs can be refuted, some beliefs can be thrown out.
What you were talking about then are UNCHANGEABLE beliefs. Only idiots have unchangeable beliefs, so then again, what the fuck are you preaching? You assume everyone else is an idiot.
What I have been doing for pages, WITH YOU, is TRYING TO get you to prove THAT, what you have been INSISTING that I do. I said; I neither believe nor disbelieve any thing. You, however, BELIEVED that this is impossible and have been continually insisting that I do actually have beliefs, and believe.

If you STOPPED insisting this, then we could have STOPPED talking about this (dozens??) pages ago.

If you keep persisting that you KNOW, for sure, what is in this head, then I will keep questioning you. I do this to SHOW how much, or how little, you really do know.

When you stop insisting, then we can stop talking.

As I asked you previously, do you just want me to roll over and say that atla IS RIGHT and CORRECT?
Wrong. You have beliefs, just no unchangeable beliefs.
I AM COMMUNICATING that you do NOT know what is within this head. You are just unable to understand this fact.

You accuse me of teaching some absolutely absurd thing. I have told you that I am on here to LEARN how to communicate better, and NOT necessarily on here to to communicate any thing, to any one that I am responding to on here anyway.

I am using people, like you on this forum, to communicate to an audience just How the Mind and the brain work, and how BELIEFS can and do actually prevent and STOP you, human beings, from learning and becoming wiser.

You also insist that there is NO universal knowledge, and, that I have NO access to it, which is of absolutely NO concern to me. Yet it just SHOWS how much you BELIEVE that you are absolutely certain about some things. Once again, BELIEFS interfering with and SHOWING how a human being's ability to learn and SEE the actual Truth of things is completely prevented by those BELIEFS.

These are the things that I want to learn how to communicate better.

You accuse me of being "just another insane person", which leaves me wondering WHY would you even bother having discussions, for so called "dozens" of pages with me then?

That is just some of the things that I have been talking about WITH YOU, over some pages.
You contradict yourself again and again. Then what is this crap we are supposed to have access to when we are completely open?
which leaves me wondering WHY would you even bother having discussions
I'm curious if I can make you realize just how fucked up you are, right before your imagined audience. It's amusing to me / it's a psychological experiment / makes the world a little better place too, less insanity / and you deserve it. I still think that you are preaching like you were the voice of the absolute, everything so far confirms it - you are just trying to cover it up. Are you training yourself to better deceive the psychiatrists the next time they will examine you? :D
Once again, you will NOT give up on this issue, will you? IF you WANT to keep insisting that I have BELIEFS, then I will once again keep insisting that you to provide some examples of what you BELIEVE that I supposedly have BELIEFS about.

When you provide these examples, like you did previously, then we can a look at them, like we did previously, and then I can acknowledge whether I actually have that BELIEF or whether I do NOT have that BELIEF, like I did previously.

WHEN will you EVER understand what I state. That is; I neither believe nor disbelieve any thing.

By the way, what does someone actually look like without beliefs?
See above.

Age
Posts: 2099
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Free agent cannot be created

Post by Age » Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:54 pm

Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:09 pm
Age wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:48 pm
YOUR ASSUMPTION is totally and utterly WRONG.

You are the one who is NOT understanding any thing I write, ALSO.

How many times do I have to TELL you that I NEVER assumed that others are idiots, BEFORE you will UNDERSTAND this?
You can lie as many times as you want.
Just last page you tried to back track from what you had previously said, and then state that you are NOT certain of things, yet here you are once again showing just how certain you THINK you ARE of some thing.

WHERE is the, supposed, lie, and WHEN did I, supposedly, lie?

Do you really BELIEVE that you KNOW what is actually occuring within this head?
Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:09 pm
OF COURSE what IS thought can change, can be refuted, can be thrown out. BUT, by definition, what IS BELIEVED can NOT be changed, can NOT be refuted, nor can NOT be thrown out. The very fact of whilst having and holding onto a BELIEF quashes, prevents, and stops the very ability to do those things
Your definition of "belief" is idiotic.
Is it?
Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:09 pm
Some beliefs can change, some beliefs can be refuted, some beliefs can be thrown out.
Why would you and do you, human beings, BELIEVE some thing IF it is NOT even true?

To me, there is NO real purpose to BELIEVING, but you, human beings, are FREE to do whatever you want to do.

You will, after all, learn one day. Either the hard way or the easy way, but you WILL LEARN.
Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:09 pm
What you were talking about then are UNCHANGEABLE beliefs.
By definition, whilst a human being is having/holding a BELIEF, it is unchangeable. Otherwise WHY would you have/hold a BELIEF if it could change anyway?
Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:09 pm
Only idiots have unchangeable beliefs, so then again, what the fuck are you preaching?
How does the last part of this sentence relate to the first part?
Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:09 pm
You assume everyone else is an idiot.
You are so deluded by your own assumptions and beliefs that you actually believe that this is TRUE. And, what is worse is that you are absolutely certain that this is true, which is the ultimate demonstration of a distorted human being, that I have been talking about.
Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:09 pm
What I have been doing for pages, WITH YOU, is TRYING TO get you to prove THAT, what you have been INSISTING that I do. I said; I neither believe nor disbelieve any thing. You, however, BELIEVED that this is impossible and have been continually insisting that I do actually have beliefs, and believe.

If you STOPPED insisting this, then we could have STOPPED talking about this (dozens??) pages ago.

If you keep persisting that you KNOW, for sure, what is in this head, then I will keep questioning you. I do this to SHOW how much, or how little, you really do know.

When you stop insisting, then we can stop talking.

As I asked you previously, do you just want me to roll over and say that atla IS RIGHT and CORRECT?
Wrong.
I asked you a "Yes" or "No" question and you come back with "WRONG" for an answer.
Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:09 pm
You have beliefs, just no unchangeable beliefs.
WRONG. I neither believe nor disbelieve any thing, THEREFORE I have NO beliefs whatsoever.

If, as you BELIEVE and are absolutely CERTAIN about, that I do have beliefs, then WHAT ARE THOSE, supposed, BELIEFS?
Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:09 pm
I AM COMMUNICATING that you do NOT know what is within this head. You are just unable to understand this fact.

You accuse me of teaching some absolutely absurd thing. I have told you that I am on here to LEARN how to communicate better, and NOT necessarily on here to to communicate any thing, to any one that I am responding to on here anyway.

I am using people, like you on this forum, to communicate to an audience just How the Mind and the brain work, and how BELIEFS can and do actually prevent and STOP you, human beings, from learning and becoming wiser.

You also insist that there is NO universal knowledge, and, that I have NO access to it, which is of absolutely NO concern to me. Yet it just SHOWS how much you BELIEVE that you are absolutely certain about some things. Once again, BELIEFS interfering with and SHOWING how a human being's ability to learn and SEE the actual Truth of things is completely prevented by those BELIEFS.

These are the things that I want to learn how to communicate better.

You accuse me of being "just another insane person", which leaves me wondering WHY would you even bother having discussions, for so called "dozens" of pages with me then?

That is just some of the things that I have been talking about WITH YOU, over some pages.
You contradict yourself again and again.
Just saying this does NOT, and I will repeat, does NOT mean that I am contradicting myself. To SHOW that I am, you would first have to provide some evidence for this. Now, provide the examples of WHERE you either THINK or BELIEVE that I am contradicting myself, then we ALL can take a good hard LOOK AT it, and then discuss.
Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:09 pm
Then what is this crap we are supposed to have access to when we are completely open?
If it is "crap", then it would, by definition, NOT be worthy of looking at nor talking about, am I right?
Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:09 pm
which leaves me wondering WHY would you even bother having discussions
I'm curious if I can make you realize just how fucked up you are, right before your imagined audience.
Do you BELIEVE that there are NOT readers, reading this?

Also, how long do you THINK or BELIEVE it would take you, a human being, to supposedly make Me realize just how "fucked up" I, supposedly, am?
Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:09 pm
It's amusing to me / it's a psychological experiment / makes the world a little better place too, less insanity / and you deserve it. I still think that you are preaching like you were the voice of the absolute, everything so far confirms it - you are just trying to cover it up.
Cover what up? You just admitted that you STILL THINK what you do.
Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:09 pm
Are you training yourself to better deceive the psychiatrists the next time they will examine you? :D
But, so far, I have NOT had to deceive any thing at all from ALL of the psychiatrists that I have already seen. The more they class Me as insane, then the better that works in My favor. Also, the more they class Me as sane, then the better that works in My favor, also.

Providing completely opposing, so called, "evidences" to judges, from lots of different, so called, "psychiatrists" certainly works well in My favor.
Once again, you will NOT give up on this issue, will you? IF you WANT to keep insisting that I have BELIEFS, then I will once again keep insisting that you to provide some examples of what you BELIEVE that I supposedly have BELIEFS about.

When you provide these examples, like you did previously, then we can a look at them, like we did previously, and then I can acknowledge whether I actually have that BELIEF or whether I do NOT have that BELIEF, like I did previously.

WHEN will you EVER understand what I state. That is; I neither believe nor disbelieve any thing.
Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:09 pm
By the way, what does someone actually look like without beliefs?
See above.
So by only giving this as your last response, then does that mean that you are NOT going to provide any examples of WHAT you BELIEVE with absolute certainty IS True?

Atla
Posts: 1804
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:27 am

Re: Free agent cannot be created

Post by Atla » Sat Dec 29, 2018 5:27 pm

Age wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:54 pm
Just last page you tried to back track from what you had previously said, and then state that you are NOT certain of things, yet here you are once again showing just how certain you THINK you ARE of some thing.

WHERE is the, supposed, lie, and WHEN did I, supposedly, lie?

Do you really BELIEVE that you KNOW what is actually occuring within this head?
I didn't backtrack from anything. I don't know anything for 100% certain.
Why would you and do you, human beings, BELIEVE some thing IF it is NOT even true?

To me, there is NO real purpose to BELIEVING, but you, human beings, are FREE to do whatever you want to do.

You will, after all, learn one day. Either the hard way or the easy way, but you WILL LEARN.
Again: aren't you a human being?
Some humans believe "untrue" things, some don't. What will we learn?
By definition, whilst a human being is having/holding a BELIEF, it is unchangeable. Otherwise WHY would you have/hold a BELIEF if it could change anyway?
That's not how the English word "belief" is used. Some people hold on to beliefs subject to change, in case you didn't know. If you are still having trouble, google something like: "change your beliefs"
You are so deluded by your own assumptions and beliefs that you actually believe that this is TRUE. And, what is worse is that you are absolutely certain that this is true, which is the ultimate demonstration of a distorted human being, that I have been talking about.
I'm not absolutely certain of anything, I just find it likely. As usual you don't get it.
I asked you a "Yes" or "No" question and you come back with "WRONG" for an answer.
Ask questions that make enough sense and I'll answer properly.
WRONG. I neither believe nor disbelieve any thing, THEREFORE I have NO beliefs whatsoever.

If, as you BELIEVE and are absolutely CERTAIN about, that I do have beliefs, then WHAT ARE THOSE, supposed, BELIEFS?
See above: that's not how the English word "belief" is used.
Just saying this does NOT, and I will repeat, does NOT mean that I am contradicting myself. To SHOW that I am, you would first have to provide some evidence for this. Now, provide the examples of WHERE you either THINK or BELIEVE that I am contradicting myself, then we ALL can take a good hard LOOK AT it, and then discuss.
You already provided a dozen of comments in the past about being open and then getting some universal knowledge or whatever. Okay that may not be an unchangeable belief, but in the English language it does count as a belief.
If it is "crap", then it would, by definition, NOT be worthy of looking at nor talking about, am I right?
I did look into it a lot, many people claim to have acces to something like it: looks like it's made up, a delusion. And so far you haven't produced a shred of evidence to the contrary either. But we already discussed this.
Do you BELIEVE that there are NOT readers, reading this?
Yes. Even if there are, I don't think there are more than 2-3, and they are probably here for entertainment. The view counts on such topics are also pretty low.
Cover what up? You just admitted that you STILL THINK what you do.
That you are the voice of the absolute / the voice of God / something like that.
(Now I don't know this, but aren't you the one with the prior nickname "ken", the one that talked as God? Someone called you on that name and the two write pretty identically, or maybe you two are just similar people.)
But, so far, I have NOT had to deceive any thing at all from ALL of the psychiatrists that I have already seen. The more they class Me as insane, then the better that works in My favor. Also, the more they class Me as sane, then the better that works in My favor, also.

Providing completely opposing, so called, "evidences" to judges, from lots of different, so called, "psychiatrists" certainly works well in My favor.
Did you tell them that you have access to God's thoughts or something?
So by only giving this as your last response, then does that mean that you are NOT going to provide any examples of WHAT you BELIEVE with absolute certainty IS True?
I told you about 10-15 times so far that I don't believe anything with absolute certainty. I have changeable, non-absolute beliefs. "Belief" is an English word you've been using wrong.

Age
Posts: 2099
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Free agent cannot be created

Post by Age » Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:00 am

Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 5:27 pm

I didn't backtrack from anything. I don't know anything for 100% certain.
So, are you 100% certain that I have beliefs, or are you not certain if I have beliefs or not?
Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 5:27 pm
Again: aren't you a human being?
That would all depend on how the word 'you' is being defined here.
Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 5:27 pm
Some humans believe "untrue" things, some don't. What will we learn?
That BELIEFS of things is not necessary. And that I do NOT need to believe, nor disbelieve, any thing.
Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 5:27 pm
That's not how the English word "belief" is used.
So, how is the english word 'belief' used?

And, is that usage, which you may or may not describe for us here, for and by ALL people or for and by just some people?
Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 5:27 pm
Some people hold on to beliefs subject to change, in case you didn't know.
Yes I am well aware of this. I am also well aware that this is a completely unnecessary behavior, and a very distorted way of thinking also.

Can you explain for us here what purpose it serves of BELIEVING some thing is true, and holding onto that BELIEF, until it changes?
Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 5:27 pm
If you are still having trouble, google something like: "change your beliefs"
Not needed. I NEVER was having trouble. I quite often observe and SEE you, people, HOLD ON TO BELIEFS, until the FALSEHOODS within those BELIEFS are FINALLY, if ever, recognized. There was NO trouble in KNOWING that you, human beings, have this very distorted way of thinking and LOOKING AT things.

So, there was NO need to search for this ridiculous behavior. I observe you, adult human beings, doing it nearly always.

The only real trouble here is that when I am pointing out and SHOWING the falsehoods AND Truths to you, you, human beings, are completely BLINDED by those BELIEFS, which you so dearly love to HOLD ON TO and do NOT want to LET GO of, and, when I am TELLING the falsehood and Truths to you, human beings, these WORDS fall on DEAF EARS, this is also because of those tightly HELD ON TO BELIEFS.

Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 5:27 pm
Ask questions that make enough sense and I'll answer properly.
Some might interpret this as saying something similar to: ask me questions that when, and if, i answered properly, that is; openly and honestly, will NOT show my contradictions and/or distorted thinking.

Although some might not interpret that that way. Some may interpret your response as saying something similar to: i am unable to answer these questions because i do NOT know.

Some may even interpret your response as saying something similar to another question like; But how can clarifying questions NOT make enough sense? A question posed for clarification is just that, that is; an attempt of clarification of what the writer/speaker is actually meaning and/or saying.
Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 5:27 pm
See above: that's not how the English word "belief" is used.
But you NEVER said HOW the english word 'belief' is used, ABOVE. You just said, "That's not how the English word "belief" is used."

You have NEVER given any indication at all above about HOW the english word 'belief' is, supposed to be, used.

You really do NEED to be much more forth giving and specific if, as it appears, really hate answering clarifying questions asked to you.

Until you provide what YOUR description is of how the english word 'belief' is supposedly used, then I have no idea what you are referring to here.
Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 5:27 pm
You already provided a dozen of comments in the past about being open and then getting some universal knowledge or whatever.
This is the first time in this response that you write about;
"or whatever.
Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 5:27 pm
Okay that may not be an unchangeable belief, but in the English language it does count as a belief.
WHAT counts as a 'belief', IN THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE?
Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 5:27 pm
If it is "crap", then it would, by definition, NOT be worthy of looking at nor talking about, am I right?
I did look into it a lot,
You did look into WHAT, a lot?
Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 5:27 pm
many people claim to have acces to something like it:
This is the second time in this response that you write about;
"something like it".
Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 5:27 pm
looks like it's made up, a delusion.
WHAT is "it', that you say looks like it is made up, a delusion?
Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 5:27 pm
And so far you haven't produced a shred of evidence to the contrary either. But we already discussed this.
IS this some sort of guessing game you want to play?
1. WHAT counts as a belief?
2. WHAT did you look into a lot?
3. WHAT is 'it' that looks like it is made up?
4. WHAT is the 'contrary' that i have not produced a shred of evidence for?
Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 5:27 pm
Yes. Even if there are, I don't think there are more than 2-3, and they are probably here for entertainment. The view counts on such topics are also pretty low.
So, there IS actually an audience, correct?

Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 5:27 pm
That you are the voice of the absolute / the voice of God / something like that.
This is the third time that you write about;
"something like that"

Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 5:27 pm
(Now I don't know this, but aren't you the one with the prior nickname "ken",
And, "others".
Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 5:27 pm
the one that talked as God?
Did i?

If the answer is yes, then would care to point the readers to WHERE that was EXACTLY?

We would be very interested to go back and read what was written, back in those times.

I do NOT recall ken ever talking as God.

Only God could talk as God, correct?

But WHEN you point us back to A particular writing, then we can talk a look at it, and discuss.
Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 5:27 pm
Someone called you on that name and the two write pretty identically, or maybe you two are just similar people.)
Very true.

By the way the start of this, what you wrote in brackets, IS perfect. Starting off by saying, "I don't know this, but ..." relays a sense of OPENNESS. Whereas, just about every thing else that you have written and accusing me of was coming across as though you KNOW with ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY.

This is very confronting, and what makes it more confronting was you were coming across with that ABSOLUTE KNOWING CERTAINTY in regards to what thoughts and thinking IS going on this body, from where these words are coming from. Only now, after talking with logik a page back have you CHANGED your belief/view and now have starting saying that you do NOT know with absolute certainty.

Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 5:27 pm
Did you tell them that you have access to God's thoughts or something?
This is the fourth time you write about;
"or something".

Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 5:27 pm
I told you about 10-15 times so far that I don't believe anything with absolute certainty.
Are you sure that it is in between the 10-15 times time-range, that you told me?

Also, does that mean that EVERYTHING that you BELIEVE, you are NOT even absolutely certain about them?

If yes, then WHY would you, a human being, BELIEVE some thing when the actual truthfulness of it is NOT even KNOWN by you?
Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 5:27 pm
I have changeable, non-absolute beliefs.
To test if you really do have changeable, non-absolute beliefs or not, then you WILL just answer some open clarifying questions here;
Do I have to have BELIEFS?
Do I have to BELIEVE some things?
Can I have access to KNOWLEDGE that you could NOT even dream of yet?
Atla wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 5:27 pm
"Belief" is an English word you've been using wrong.
I will NEVER know if I have been using the english word 'belief' wrong, that is until you describe or define the CORRECT usage of that word.

By the way, when, and if you ever do do this, will you be absolute certain that that IS the one and only CORRECT usage of that word, or will you only EVER be somewhat certain, which means that you could actually be WRONG, and/or partly WRONG?

If it is the former, then so be it.
But, if it is the latter, then WHY have you been going on the way that you have been here?

Now, for these four things that you write about regarding:
"something and whatever" WHAT EXACTLY are you talking about?

You like to use these terms in relation to some thing that I have supposedly talked about or discussed. If that was TRULY the case, then you could just point us all in the right direction WHERE I have said or talked about these things.

But maybe the actual TRUTH here is, you are just making up some ASSUMPTION/S, and you do NOT even KNOW how to express YOUR VERY OWN ASSUMPTIONS correctly? We will have to wait and SEE?

Either I have clearly expressed some thing regarding "something and/or whatever", of which you will point us to SEEING. Or, what will be SEEN is that you are just ASSUMING things and you are NOT able to clearly express those ASSUMPTIONS.

Atla
Posts: 1804
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:27 am

Re: Free agent cannot be created

Post by Atla » Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:25 am

Age wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:00 am
...
Okay you read the words but can't remember the context, can't remember earlier sentences, can't remember earlier comments, even if something was already stated 20 times. You can't even process a longer sentence.
You deeply misunderstand what others write, don't understand what beliefs are to most humans, you can't tell if someone writes with absolute certainty or not etc.

You say you've had many dealings with psychiatrist. You think you/we speak from the absolute like you/we were the voice of God in a way. You are deeply clinging to some of your delusions and are trying to make others realize that they are the delusional ones. Do you have a diagnosis of schizophrenia? (If yes then you should get tested for food allergies and food intolerances, especially dairy/gluten/yeast, and autoimmune problems in general, it's little known but these can really mess up the brain/mind functioning. Big Pharma isn't interested in healing people so natural remedies are suppressed.)

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