bahman wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:36 pm
Age wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:59 am
bahman wrote: ↑Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:29 pm
The problem of personality.
This, so called, "problem" can be very easily overcome and solved. As I suggest previously the 'personality' comes from thoughts (and emotions). The Mind is NOT these things.
I agree. But that is mind which allows me to experience thoughts and emotions.
I agree with this, but not in the same way you do.
I already have a defined conclusion for what 'mind' is, what 'me' is, and how the 'mind' allows 'me' to experience thoughts and emotions in your sentence here. Now can you define the 'mind', the 'me', and how that that 'mind' allows 'me' to experience thoughts and emotions?
That is mind which allows me to cause different things.[/quote]
What is the 'mind' and how is 'it' in relation to the 'me' here?
Also, are you able to answer who/what 'me' actually is?
Age wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:59 am
bahman wrote: ↑Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:29 pm
The very fact that we have personal internal lives, such as personal thought and decision means that there should be many minds involved in the reality.
You have just used the right words here that gives a clue to WHO the person, the personal, or the personality actually IS. Those words are 'personal THOUGHT'. What makes each person an individual and different personality is the personal (individual, different) THOUGHTS within each and every human body.
Older human beings are able to KNOW what 'thoughts' are, but what is just as obviously KNOWN is ALL human beings, since their conception through evolution have NEVER known what the 'mind' is.
What the Mind actually IS and how it relates in conjunction with thought and emotion is very easily to understand, and can be discussed later if so wished.
But if you want to insist that there are MANY minds, then so be it.
I will be happy to hear your words in another thread which I open shortly.[/quote]
Okay, see you there.
bahman wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:36 pmAge wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:59 am
bahman wrote: ↑Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:29 pm
Yes, that is how I see the reality.
I see 'reality', itself, a bit different. But we can leave this for another discussion if you like?
What is reality then?
I am on a quest to learn how to show how easy it really is for everyone to live in a pollution-free and truly peaceful and harmonious world together. But, when I start to discuss this, some people will say, "but that is not 'reality' ", "you have to look at 'reality' ", and other things like; "look around you, this is 'reality' ". What I would like to express, but rarely get the opportunity to, is; that what is happening now, in this current world, when this is written, is 'really' happening, but this is certainly not what 'reality' is, from my perspective. I wholeheartedly, and obviously, agree that what is happening 'NOW', at
any given moment is happening, but what is happening NOW, is not 'reality', in another sense.
No matter in what time period or in what place, whatever human beings are living in, and have a conception of what the word 'reality' is, these people will think that what they are living in is 'reality'. However, to most of the human beings who live, when this is written, 'a flat world' is NOT 'reality', also 'a earth centered Universe world' is NOT 'reality', although that WAS 'reality' to the people's back then. 'Reality' seems to always be changing with each generation and era.
No person 'really' wants to live in a world full of pollution, where there are starving children, with hatred, terror, wars, and killing, but this is the world that is really happening and which ALL people live in, when this is written.
What ALL people 'really' want is to live in a world without pollution, where there are no starving children, with just loving peaceful people all around them. This is 'really' possible.
To me, the world that ALL people 'really' want and that which is
'real' and is a possibil
'ity' IS 'reality'.
'Reality' is some thing to work towards and create, and once it is has been created, then it is what is really happening. 'Reality' is then another goal and some thing else to move towards.
Perfection, or a Heaven like state/place, is a perfect example of 'Reality' as it is some thing that may never be actually obtained, but It is some thing that ALL people want to live, can work together towards, and a state/place that brings with it a 'real' sense of purpose and achievement with each step made to getting closer to it.
bahman wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:36 pmAge wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:59 am
bahman wrote: ↑Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:29 pm
I think I should agree with your observation. Knowledge in general sense is more than what human comprehend. I should define knowledge as what is derived from the relation between things.
Well, I have an argument for that which clearly show how there exists an actual and real physical step of causality. In this argument I also show that mind is necessary as a main ingredient. I would be happy to share it with you if you wish.
I would love to see it.
So here is the argument: Consider a change in a system, X->Y.
P1. X and Y cannot coexist therefore X must vanish before Y takes place.
P2. Y however cannot comes of nothingness.
C. Therefore there should exist a mind which experiences X (is aware of X) and causes Y.
I hope it is okay with you what I did here? If not, just let me know.
P1. I agree.
P2. That is just an assumption. Although I agree wholeheartedly with it, I have yet to see HOW any thing could come from nothing, but I also will not yet say Y CAN NOT come from nothing, until I see actual evidence that Y CAN NOT come from nothing. For all I KNOW the whole Universe may just have come from no thing at all.
Although I remain OPEN to EVERY thing and can NOT yet see how any thing can come from no thing, what I can and do very easily see is just how EVERY thing came into existence.
C. I do not, yet, see how you arrived at YOUR conclusion.
If X and Y can not coexist and X must vanish before Y takes place, then how and why does that mean that 'there should exist a mind'?
You might have to explain what the definition of the word 'mind' is that are you seeing this from here?
If you seeing this 'mind' as being very deep down, at the most fundamental level of Creation, Itself, then I can see where you are coming from. But i just want to clarify first, to make sure.
bahman wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:36 pm Here we show two things, the necessity of existence of mind and the fact that causality involved in any change.
If an intelligent species has evolved that is capable of becoming truly Self-aware, then I do NOT dispute the necessity of existence of Mind at all.
Nor, do I dispute the fact that causality is involved in any change.
For, to me, it is a very fact that Creation nor Evolution could NOT exist without causality.
Creation AND Evolution co-exist together as One.
Therefore, there IS causality.
bahman wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:36 pmAge wrote: ↑Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:01 pm
bahman wrote: ↑Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:29 pm
Minds.
Okay, now this is where it can get a bit tricky.
I could ask what is 'mind' or 'minds', but I will not, for now.
But I will ask; is 'we', who/what you are saying is 'minds', in absolutely EVERY particle in the Universe, or just in human bodies, or are 'we/minds' in some else? Or, are 'we/minds' some thing else all together?
Every thing or being has a mind. But let's discuss it in another thread.
Age wrote: ↑Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:01 pm
bahman wrote: ↑Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:29 pm
Yes. By stuff I mean physical things which we experience and interact through it.
To me, there is a Universe with physical things, which can be seen with human eyes, and, there is are things, which can not be seen with human eyes.
When you say 'we' here, you are referring to human beings right? Or, are you referring to more than just them?
There are layers and layers, and to explain, UNDERSTAND, and SEE them ALL, then I need to know where you are up to exactly.
By we I mean all things or beings. Sorry for not being clear here.
To me, 'we' can refer to
all things, or, to
beings, but 'beings' are not necessarily all things, and 'all things' are not necessarily beings.
bahman wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:36 pmAge wrote: ↑Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:01 pm
bahman wrote: ↑Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:29 pm
I used to think that time is not real too but I changed my mind.
But you can not change YOUR mind if as you previously stated that YOU/WE are mind.
What makes more sense, for me anyway, is, now you see things differently, and the view that you used to have has
changed.
bahman wrote: ↑Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:29 pm
I have an argument for time being real: Consider a change in state of a system, X->Y. Two states cannot lay on each other since the state of affair becomes ill-defined. This means that two states must lay on different points. This means that we need a variable to allow this to happen. There must however be a duration between two points otherwise the change will never takes place. The variable is therefore time.
This is true. You are just using the word 'time' to refer to change. I just use the word 'change' to refer to 'change' and the word 'time' to refer to measurement that human beings use to describe between one 'change' to another.
Of course and obviously a 'change' happens. In fact it is, as far as I can tell, an impossibility for there not to be 'change' taking place. 'Change' just being the interaction between physical things. With each interaction just being an action, in and of itself, and obviously with each action there is a reaction. A re-action just causes things to move or change, and with each movement more particles of matter interact, which is just an action, which causes a reaction. This reaction process, which is always happening NOW, is just creation, in action. This continual action/reaction process is HOW things are continually 'changing'. With 'change' just being the evolution process. Creation/Evolution are just the One Thing continually happening. But I have digressed.
No. I just have shown in my argument that a variable, time, is need to allows the change. I start with a change in a system and show that change is not possible without time.
If I have this correct;
Your definition of 'time' is
the variable between two points.
My definition of 'time' is
'the measured' duration between two points.
Obviously, there has to be some sort of distance, (variable/duration) which, in itself, makes two things. Otherwise, there would only be one, unchangeable, thing, always.
bahman wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:36 pmAge wrote: ↑Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:01 pm
bahman wrote: ↑Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:29 pm
This depends on the model.
How about instead of looking at models we just LOOK AT
what IS, instead?
For example if for every action there is a reaction, then there, obviously, is no beginning and there was no end.
Now, because I remain OPEN always, there may have well been a beginning, but without any proof of that I just can NOT see how that is possible.
Maybe an explanation of HOW a beginning of ALL-THERE-IS is possible, but I have yet to see one. However, HOW ALL-THERE-IS is infinite and eternal is very EASY to SEE and UNDERSTAND.
Age wrote: ↑Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:01 pm
These two models look very far fetched from
what IS the actual Truth.
What other option do we have?
What about the option of; There is a Mind, and, the 'beginning' and appearance of stuff lay at the same point?
bahman wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:36 pmAge wrote: ↑Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:01 pm
'Internal', literally, being the operative word here. Every human being has their own internal thoughts/thinking, and thus their own lives, or their own 'picture' of life. This picture is, literally, drawn from each one's own past experiences.
The reason life is so uniquely personal and/or different is because each human body has had their own uniquely personal different experiences. It is from those past experiences thoughts are formed. And the reason each person is so different and unique is because no two human bodies can have the exact same experiences. Individual experiences, literally, creates the individuals, who live/dwell within the individual different human bodies.
Ok. Let me ask you this question that how that is possible that we can have different experience in different locations? To be honest the model with more minds doesn't resolve the issue.
How 'we',
different people, can have different experiences in different locations IS because how could 'we' NOT have. EVERY human body experiences different things. Through some or all of the five senses of each and every different human body different experiences are seen, felt, heard, smelt, and tasted. ALL bodies are in different locations. There are NO two bodies that can co-exist the exact same location. Even siamese twins, who share the exact same body, do NOT share the exact same experiences. One set of eyes might be looking in a different direction, thus having a different perspective and experiences, from a different location, and also forming different thinking/thoughts. These different experiences is thus the very reason WHY all people are different.
To me, 'people' are unique and different beings, with each one being within a different human head. Whereas, there is another Being, on a deeper level, that is even within each unique and different person(al) being.
How 'we',
the one and only Being, can have different experiences in different locations, is by LOOKING AT ALL things through human being's different perspectives. The one and only Being is just the collective sharing of ALL the person/beings. That is; What it is that is agreed upon by ALL is how the one and only Being is omniscient, and able to KNOW.
'We',
the one Being, is just a collective of 'we',
the different experienced and located human beings.