There is no proof that separate identity exists.

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Dontaskme
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There is no proof that separate identity exists.

Post by Dontaskme » Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:06 am

Those who believe they exist as a separate ''me'' are living a lie.
An assumed separate ''me'' existence is just a belief energetically generated by the phenomena known as the senses. What 'knows' the senses is only ever 'not-knowing awareness'. There is only ONE (thing) aware of the senses, and that is awareness itself which is not a thing...there is no room for any ''other thing'' to make the 'knowing' approach. Knowing is only ever 'one with the knowing' itself inseparably one. That is the only SELF there is.

The sensor and the sensed are inseparably one in the exact same instant totally unclaimed. There is simply no room for any other thing to claim that instant. The feeler and the sensation of feeling are the same one...appearing as if two, where in that exact instant the not-knowing is instantly known generating the illusion of other as the (unborn) awareness becomes aware(born)..and the sense of ''other'' is born, but that sense of other is a simulation it has no existence in and of itself.

A sensation felt and the cause of that sensation are instantaneous in the same moment. For example: the seeing and the seen are inseparably one in the same instant, there is no world out-there separate from the perceiver here. There is no THERE separate from HERE...separation are just illusory ideas.

These sense of ''me'' existence can only exist as a past tense aka memory which does not exist in this immediate realtime unborn presence NOW. Now is only ever this blank inane immediate not-knowing aliveness living itself aka unborn awareness.

Knowing anything is always a reflection of an event that's already taken place, the sense of ''me'' is an appearance of that reflection aka memory appearing in the same one awareness as if the event that's already happened is happening now artificially creating the illusion of a separate ''me'' existing now. It's a self-sustaining feedback loop constantly feeding itself giving continuity to the sense of the separate ''me'' - but it's an illusion because this ''me'' is a fictional artificially created character created by the ONE AWARENESS aware of itself only via memory which is dead...the sense of ''other'' is an illusion, it does not exist, it's a parasite along for the free ride.


There is no person or thing living life.

And that's the only truth there is, the truth that there is no truth.

surreptitious57
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Re: There is no proof that separate identity exists.

Post by surreptitious57 » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:19 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
the seeing and the seen are inseparably one in the same instant there is no world out there separate from the perceiver here
Everything seen by the perceiver is in the past because the present cannot be experienced in real time
The seeing and the seen are therefore not one but are separated by time even if only infinitesimally so

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Eodnhoj7
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Re: There is no proof that separate identity exists.

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Thu Feb 01, 2018 1:17 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:06 am
Those who believe they exist as a separate ''me'' are living a lie.
An assumed separate ''me'' existence is just a belief energetically generated by the phenomena known as the senses. What 'knows' the senses is only ever 'not-knowing awareness'. There is only ONE (thing) aware of the senses, and that is awareness itself which is not a thing...there is no room for any ''other thing'' to make the 'knowing' approach. Knowing is only ever 'one with the knowing' itself inseparably one. That is the only SELF there is.

The sensor and the sensed are inseparably one in the exact same instant totally unclaimed. There is simply no room for any other thing to claim that instant. The feeler and the sensation of feeling are the same one...appearing as if two, where in that exact instant the not-knowing is instantly known generating the illusion of other as the (unborn) awareness becomes aware(born)..and the sense of ''other'' is born, but that sense of other is a simulation it has no existence in and of itself.

A sensation felt and the cause of that sensation are instantaneous in the same moment. For example: the seeing and the seen are inseparably one in the same instant, there is no world out-there separate from the perceiver here. There is no THERE separate from HERE...separation are just illusory ideas.

These sense of ''me'' existence can only exist as a past tense aka memory which does not exist in this immediate realtime unborn presence NOW. Now is only ever this blank inane immediate not-knowing aliveness living itself aka unborn awareness.

Knowing anything is always a reflection of an event that's already taken place, the sense of ''me'' is an appearance of that reflection aka memory appearing in the same one awareness as if the event that's already happened is happening now artificially creating the illusion of a separate ''me'' existing now. It's a self-sustaining feedback loop constantly feeding itself giving continuity to the sense of the separate ''me'' - but it's an illusion because this ''me'' is a fictional artificially created character created by the ONE AWARENESS aware of itself only via memory which is dead...the sense of ''other'' is an illusion, it does not exist, it's a parasite along for the free ride.


There is no person or thing living life.

And that's the only truth there is, the truth that there is no truth.
By observing the concept of "separate" you actualize it as a concept, and as a concept by default it reflects into further physical and abstract dimensions. If separation does not exist, then how can you argue about "separation" without acknowledging something exists.

You can argue it is an illusion, but they would require us to have the choice or ability to be deceived. If that is the case then by default people may choose "separation", as to believe in an illusion is to separate oneself from truth.

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Re: There is no proof that separate identity exists.

Post by Dontaskme » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:18 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:19 pm
Dontaskme wrote:
the seeing and the seen are inseparably one in the same instant there is no world out there separate from the perceiver here
Everything seen by the perceiver is in the past because the present cannot be experienced in real time
The seeing and the seen are therefore not one but are separated by time even if only infinitesimally so
Try this for yourself.

Look at an object, maybe hold your hand in front of you and look at it, now tell me where is the separation between the looker of the hand and the hand seen? ...or are they the same one seer and seen in the exact same moment?

Time is just an idea arising WITHIN the ONE timeless seamless consciousness...past and future can only happen NOW which cannot be an experience like you've said. So any 'separation' is only appearing NOW...ONE without a second...

How can time which is just a concept appearing NOW - separate the NOW it is appearing in? who would the ''other'' be separating NOW into Not Now? Who? ..remember, the present cannot be an experience, so who is experiencing past, ..except a memory appearing and known NOW

This is self-evident proof of oneness. And you are IT ...Everything is IT ..BECAUSE IT IS ALL THINGS.



There is only perception. No one is perceiving itself ..SEEING IS ONE...the body is the instrument of seer seeing itself.

The ONE looks through multitudes of instruments AKA bodies of itself, and the views are all different but the seer can only ever be the same one, because there is only ONE


Oneness doesn't have to or need to KNOW itself to be what IT IS ..the proof is during sleep when the mind is in abeyance and has ABSOLUTELY NO CONCEPT aka Awareness of itself, and yet IT STILL IS

What makes the comparison is a ''thought'' aka the ''mind'' when it comes online, it makes an appearance within itself, apparently diving and making comparisons where there are none, the division is totally illusory because a division aka the perception of ''other'' only happens when that 'other' is visioned into reality by the Oneness itself..artificially creating a mirror image of itself via reflection.... but it's the same One seeing itself.

.

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Re: There is no proof that separate identity exists.

Post by Dontaskme » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:22 am

Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 1:17 am
By observing the concept of "separate" you actualize it as a concept, and as a concept by default it reflects into further physical and abstract dimensions. If separation does not exist, then how can you argue about "separation" without acknowledging something exists.

You can argue it is an illusion, but they would require us to have the choice or ability to be deceived. If that is the case then by default people may choose "separation", as to believe in an illusion is to separate oneself from truth.
I agree with your intelligently thought out reply.

Separation exists, but it's illusory because I cannot find the source of I only in what I reflect as my mirror image. SAME NO ONE looking at itself as imaged, appearing as an image of the imagless.

We're all the same one reflecting our personal view points through the lens of our unique perception, so each opinion is going to differ from another opinion, but at the end of the day it's all the same one action dreaming difference where there is none.

This knowledge known by no one is the end of all physiological human suffering.

Y/our original true nature / THE natural self is always working silently behind the scene aka the ego guiding you back to your true home which you have never left, because you cannot leave what you never entered. You are this ONE.

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Re: There is no proof that separate identity exists.

Post by Atla » Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:54 am

Sure, there is no separate identity, and the "counter-arguments" from the others were so breathtakingly stupid I almost screamed. But:
Dontaskme wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:22 am
This knowledge known by no one is the end of all physiological human suffering.
In what way? Most physiological suffering goes on all the same. Even a lot of the psychological suffering goes on. And some cease but new ones are born.
And it's still a knowledge "known by you, as that human", in the sense that it's an experience in that head.
Y/our original true nature / THE natural self is always working silently behind the scene aka the ego guiding you back to your true home which you have never left, because you cannot leave what you never entered. You are this ONE.
Nothing is working behind the scenes, nothing is guiding anything. Nothing wants to get home. Aren't you actually stuck in limbo, in one of the nondualism traps? You seem to think that our "true self" has some kind of extra characteristics.

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Re: There is no proof that separate identity exists.

Post by Dontaskme » Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:29 pm

Atla wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:54 am
Sure, there is no separate identity, and the "counter-arguments" from the others were so breathtakingly stupid I almost screamed. But:
Dontaskme wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:22 am
This knowledge known by no one is the end of all physiological human suffering.
In what way? Most physiological suffering goes on all the same. Even a lot of the psychological suffering goes on. And some cease but new ones are born.
And it's still a knowledge "known by you, as that human", in the sense that it's an experience in that head.
Y/our original true nature / THE natural self is always working silently behind the scene aka the ego guiding you back to your true home which you have never left, because you cannot leave what you never entered. You are this ONE.
Nothing is working behind the scenes, nothing is guiding anything. Nothing wants to get home. Aren't you actually stuck in limbo, in one of the nondualism traps? You seem to think that our "true self" has some kind of extra characteristics.

It's just a story told by no one.

But don't take my word for that, show me a man who has finished with words so that I may have a word with him. :wink:

Everything is happening to No thing. Same ONE.

Knowledge informs illusory reality.

Me thinks you are stuck in the story.

An awakened being does not suffer...period, if your still suffering, then so be it. But this one here does not.

There are two kinds of nothing.
1 is the nothing of the SELF
2 is the desperate nothing of the mind.

And the mind goes...yeah but, yeah but, yeah but, yeah but, yeah but..... it's always up it's own bum, and then some. And when it's finished there, it's sniffing around for other bums.

It's spends it whole allotted time sniffing around in the shit, and never thinks to clean it up and smell the roses. Although, can't have shit without a rose, can't have a rose without shit. The human appears to get the thorny end of the two. Glad I'm not human anymore, who'd want to live in that cesspool.

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Re: There is no proof that separate identity exists.

Post by Atla » Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:07 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:29 pm
Atla wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:54 am
Sure, there is no separate identity, and the "counter-arguments" from the others were so breathtakingly stupid I almost screamed. But:
Dontaskme wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:22 am
This knowledge known by no one is the end of all physiological human suffering.
In what way? Most physiological suffering goes on all the same. Even a lot of the psychological suffering goes on. And some cease but new ones are born.
And it's still a knowledge "known by you, as that human", in the sense that it's an experience in that head.
Y/our original true nature / THE natural self is always working silently behind the scene aka the ego guiding you back to your true home which you have never left, because you cannot leave what you never entered. You are this ONE.
Nothing is working behind the scenes, nothing is guiding anything. Nothing wants to get home. Aren't you actually stuck in limbo, in one of the nondualism traps? You seem to think that our "true self" has some kind of extra characteristics.

It's just a story told by no one.

But don't take my word for that, show me a man who has finished with words so that I may have a word with him. :wink:

Everything is happening to No thing. Same ONE.

Knowledge informs illusory reality.

Me thinks you are stuck in the story.

An awakened being does not suffer...period, if your still suffering, then so be it. But this one here does not.

There are two kinds of nothing.
1 is the nothing of the SELF
2 is the desperate nothing of the mind.

And the mind goes...yeah but, yeah but, yeah but, yeah but, yeah but..... it's always up it's own bum, and then some. And when it's finished there, it's sniffing around for other bums.

It's spends it whole allotted time sniffing around in the shit, and never thinks to clean it up and smell the roses. Although, can't have shit without a rose, can't have a rose without shit. The human appears to get the thorny end of the two. Glad I'm not human anymore, who'd want to live in that cesspool.
Nah, you're just stuck in one of the major traps after awakening, it is very common. A new ego was created in your head that believes "not to be that human", which is also quite wrong, it's another delusional story to tell yourself.

As I said, I mainly blame the emptiness-Buddhists for all this nonsense. Our "true self" is everything. And that includes this human and it includes the illusion of the ego. But these thoughts and stories are all in the head.

Many people get stuck in this limbo, they shouldn't be talking about nondualism.

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Re: There is no proof that separate identity exists.

Post by Dontaskme » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:11 pm

Our true self is everything...including humans talking about nonduality...

In the world but not of it...peace amid the chaos

Nonduality the most beautiful thing to ever grace the human mind.

I don’t agree with all this trap malarkey...it’s just a really dumb thing to say.

But then humans are bacically just a bunch of narcissistic idiots.

Atla
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Re: There is no proof that separate identity exists.

Post by Atla » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:40 pm

Yes humans are narcissistic idiots. Which is why they lie to themselves that they are no longer human, that suddenly somehow everything turned to bliss, and all suffering has ceased. That is the standard narcissistic pathology from the East. :)

I like people who call out this bullshit, just think of UG (not Jiddu) Krishnamurti for example. :)

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Re: There is no proof that separate identity exists.

Post by surreptitious57 » Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:10 am

Dontaskme wrote:
hold your hand in front of you and look at it now tell me where is the separation between the looker of the hand and the hand seen
The separation is in the time it takes for light to travel from the eye to the hand and back again and for the brain to process that information

Time is just an idea arising WITHIN the ONE timeless seamless consciousness ... past and future can only happen NOW
Past and future are temporal references which by definition do not reference the present which is now
Were everything happening now then there would be no need to use past and future since they would be meaningless


So any separation is only appearing NOW ... ONE without a second ...
As separation can actually be measured then it cannot be instantaneous

How can time which is just a concept appearing NOW - separate the NOW it is appearing in / who would the other be separating NOW into Not Now
Now is eternal but not everything is now because the now that has already happened is the past while the now that has yet to happen is the future

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Re: There is no proof that separate identity exists.

Post by Dontaskme » Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:56 am

Atla wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:40 pm
Yes humans are narcissistic idiots. Which is why they lie to themselves that they are no longer human, that suddenly somehow everything turned to bliss, and all suffering has ceased. That is the standard narcissistic pathology from the East. :)

I like people who call out this bullshit, just think of UG (not Jiddu) Krishnamurti for example. :)
But saying we're not human is not lying, it's just being honest with our self, well that's how I see it anyway. Consciousness is not human, I don't have to take on a false label just because some one else gave it to me. I wasn't born knowing I was a human, I was told this by someone else. I was told we need to have an identity, but as long as we remember it's false then we are free to be who ever we want to be, and as far as this one here feels, I'm just a unique and perfect expression of oneness and that this body is consciousness first and foremost.

The sense of suffering still arises in this one here, frustration at others still arises, anger and all those other human negative emotions still arise in this one here. Sometimes these feelings are overwhelming in this one here to the point where the mind is racing. Just because one has awakened does not exclude them from emotions. No one can avoid theses experiences, it's part of what consciousness expressing through this particular body form does.

But what's good about awakening is the knowing that these emotions are not what I am fundamentally. To the lesser aware person there maybe the notion that they really are a depressed person and that they really believe this so deeply that they feel there is no escape from their internal despair, some ending up in a psycho ward because they are so consumed with the notion that they are a separate person and the world out there is out to get them. If they just took a little time out to look into their anguish to find out exactly who this one is that feels these hopeless emotions, then they might be pleasantly surprised at what they find. But we have to put in all our own work and effort, we can't just expect other people to fix us.

An awakened person is able to endure all human emotional suffering, and pain for that matter by transcending the mind that says this is happening to me, and when we are able to do that, we then start to see that nothing that happens in life is ever personal and that all our thoughts and emotions are like a thief in an empty house. Awakened people are generally very stable emotionally. Anyway you get the drift. You know all this stuff. As for bliss, bliss for this one here is just allowing everything to be as it is and seeing that there is nothing wrong with us except our own imagined fears that are not real. The mind can work for us or against us, it's about unhinging from our false conditioning and becoming the pilot of our own ships, and to be the master of the mind and not it's slave.

Comfortably numb I think they call it.

I have watched nearly all U.G.K's videos on youtube. And I'm a bit like him, I'm a grumpy old git. But I'm my grumpy old git and I'm the one that lives with myself, and I love my grumpy old git unconditionally..my friends and family can hang around me any time they want, as long as they respect my love for solitude.
Last edited by Dontaskme on Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: There is no proof that separate identity exists.

Post by Dontaskme » Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:06 am

Dontaskme wrote:
hold your hand in front of you and look at it now tell me where is the separation between the looker of the hand and the hand seen
surreptitious57 wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:10 am
The separation is in the time it takes for light to travel from the eye to the hand and back again and for the brain to process that information

Past and future are temporal references which by definition do not reference the present which is now
Were everything happening now then there would be no need to use past and future since they would be meaningless.

How many ways can the mind come up with to separate that which cannot be separated?

Seer and seen are instantaneous NOW

There is only NOW

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Re: There is no proof that separate identity exists.

Post by Dontaskme » Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:10 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:10 am

As separation can actually be measured then it cannot be instantaneous

The mind separates what cannot be separated. Separation is a phantom idea, it doesn't exist in reality.

The only time separation comes into reality is when this one here visions you over there... it's an illusory separation, because we are both appearing within the same reality.

Can you measure Consciousness?

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Re: There is no proof that separate identity exists.

Post by Dontaskme » Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:15 am

Dontaskme wrote: How can time which is just a concept appearing NOW - separate the NOW it is appearing in / who would the other be separating NOW into Not Now
surreptitious57 wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:10 am
Now is eternal but not everything is now because the now that has already happened is the past while the now that has yet to happen is the future.

Past and future are temporal references which by definition do not reference the present which is now
Were everything happening now then there would be no need to use past and future since they would be meaningless.

And just who do you think is doing this referencing? if life is eternal....who would be the other doer, referencing separating the whole into parts?

There is no separate doer doing life...do you agree or not?

If not, explain how a separate doer is possible.

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