The Bizzarreness of Split Lives and Consciousness

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GreatandWiseTrixie
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The Bizzarreness of Split Lives and Consciousness

Post by GreatandWiseTrixie » Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:47 pm

Have you ever stopped to wonder Why you are in Your body and I am in My Body?

What causes Us, two pure, and healthy souls, to enter different bodies? Why are we both equally valid? Yet equally separate and different? You get born into one body. I get born into another body. And we go through life clueless as to why. We are both the same, yet in different bodies. Why. What determines this.

If someone takes your brain, splits it in two, and puts it in another body. Assuming they somehow keep both bodies alive...Which body will You be in?
The left or right brain?

Or let's take it a step further. Say you say, "you stay in original body due to inertia."
Okay, so let's defeat that argument.
Okay, lets create the tech to chop your entire body in half, but give you a synthetic halves of new bodies so you stay alive.

Which half is "You"? That your consciousness stays into? Left or Right half? Your consciousness cannot be conscious of two bodies at once...or can it?

Plato's Rock
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Re: The Bizzarreness of Split Lives and Consciousness

Post by Plato's Rock » Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:04 am

Well, other than a slight problem with separating the brain thoughts, namely being, yes there has been evidence that when the brain is cleaved in half (or injured in a certain way). A human mind can split, and separate identities can form. Like the Left Hemisphere can go off in one direction as a form of rationale emerges that tries to justify what the right eye has seen. Meanwhile the Right hemisphere tries to make sense of what it sees. Both if severed deeply and permanently can sense qualia without relaying the information to the "other half". Relevant articles on Wikipedia as a jump off point; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corpus_callosum & https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-brain this leads into the notion of Bicameralism ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicameralism_(psychology) ),

Personally, I'd say the best answer I could parse right now is that the body that a person is in, happens to be the body that they are in. Speculating for a moment upon the above implies that a human mind may actually be two separate if not multiple "personas/identities" within one corporeal form. Saying that one of us has just half a brain left after a surgery, and that is our "identity" from then on. We'd have lost touch with the other identity from the other half. There'd be no communication, and thus there'd likely be "nothing" to note. Building up the opposite way, if we were to add in another "hemisphere" or additional "brain matter"...would a person notice? Maybe, but once it becomes fully integrated. I'd say that they wouldn't from then on.

I think this can be both frustrating, but also enjoyable though. Just think of the potentials, and the implications. Half of you goes on in one body, and the other half remains. Both with a plethora of experience, thoughts, and insight that they taking with and leaving behind.

EchoesOfTheHorizon
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Re: The Bizzarreness of Split Lives and Consciousness

Post by EchoesOfTheHorizon » Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:31 am

We are more than just two, numbers range typically from 4 to 7 active seperate brain areas that have distinct personality function. MBTI, which uses 16 types, often gets the functions networked together through the brain to explain how these brain regions work and interact.

I can typically feel six in action. You cut it down the middle, you'll still likely have 3-5, but at the very least, 2. It is because two are held fully in each hemisphere. The extras might act a bit odd given these regions function in both hemispheres, and I've never read anything on what happens to such people when the brain halves are seperated.

I'm guessing you are writing this as some modern Cartesian Dualism, so you can refute you are not your body? Not the case Trixie, your ego learned to be from the body, and can get moved and be largely the same at first, but would morph in time, adjusting to the new reality. My old ego of the long distance running paratrooper gave way to the philosopher after my injury.

Or, think about it like Season 2 of LEXX with The Mantid, or even His Shadow from the miniseries and season 1 (I Worship His Shadow / Season 1 Lexx)

The Shadow had his brain removed at the end of every human life, and it was preserved in a little container, and put with all the previous Shadow host brains, where dozens would talk to each other over the centuries about how evil they were. The essence (Vitalism theory, like Dr. Who's regeneration energy, but this held the Shadow's consciousness) was transferred to the new body. If they didn't properly clear the new body out, the shadow's essence would mix with whatever was in the mind of the host. This is what set the story off, the very last host wasn't cleaned, and he came out as a self assured skeptic/satanist willing to test the end time apocalypse prophecy by systematically enacting the beginning of the prophecy, to prove he had the ability to stop it and not fear it.

Well, didn't work, and by season 2, the universe ended, by Mantrid, who consumed every particle of Matter in it. He was 1/3 human, 1/3 machine, 1/3 Insectoid/Shadow.

He wasn't willing to observe any one distinct faucet of his former personality, but indulged all three.

Of course, it wouldn't quite work that way in reality. We've mixed Quail and Chicken brain cells when in embryo together before, out comes a single entity, with traits of both. You'll probably just inherit a few mixed memories, have trouble doing storylines of your past, but elements would distinctly be you in thinking, while elements not would be bewildering because you can't guess how it will always behave. A lot of communication goes on back and forth, and if the two hemispheres don't feel used to one another, problems will exist.... in the beginning.

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GreatandWiseTrixie
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Re: The Bizzarreness of Split Lives and Consciousness

Post by GreatandWiseTrixie » Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:12 am

That's all well and good, but doesn't explain the real puzzle here. If the body is cut in half, but quickly put into some kind of scientific goo so that it survives...Which part is the consciousness in?

Consciousness is described as the First Person Perspective Camera observing reality.

And if the universe is only matter, no magic, then Time does not exist. Thus if 2 brains are merged, Consciousness will not go back in time to experience the babyhood of the original mind. The original mind never existed. If Time does not exist, and only substance exists, the only substance in the universe that exists is My Consciousness, noone else can simultaneously have the First Person Camera in them, since the First Person Camera cannot go back in time and experience their childhood.

surreptitious57
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Re: The Bizzarreness of Split Lives and Consciousness

Post by surreptitious57 » Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:56 am

GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:
Have you ever stopped to wonder Why you are in Your body and I am in My Body

What causes Us two pure and healthy souls to enter different bodies? Why are we both equally valid? Yet equally
separate and different? You get born into one body. I get born into another body. And we go through life clueless
as to why. We are both the same yet in different bodies. Why. What determines this
No I have never stopped to wonder why I am in my body and you are in your body

Why do you think there are such things as souls? Where is the actual evidence for them? Which branch of science are you using to determine this hypothesis of yours? The notion of souls is a religious one so why do you as an atheist believe in them? When you say We are both the same what exactly are you referring to? Do you really think consciousness can exist outside of the body? If you do can you give any actual examples that can be investigated by science? You have said that I am like a broken record that repeats the same thing over and over again on this subject but that just means I am consistent. I will change my mind when you provide evidence to support the claims you are making something which you have so far failed to do. Without evidence I have no reason to think what you say is true. If you have a genius level IQ it would be very easy for you to do

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GreatandWiseTrixie
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Re: The Bizzarreness of Split Lives and Consciousness

Post by GreatandWiseTrixie » Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:39 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:56 am
GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:
Have you ever stopped to wonder Why you are in Your body and I am in My Body

What causes Us two pure and healthy souls to enter different bodies? Why are we both equally valid? Yet equally
separate and different? You get born into one body. I get born into another body. And we go through life clueless
as to why. We are both the same yet in different bodies. Why. What determines this
No I have never stopped to wonder why I am in my body and you are in your body

Why do you think there are such things as souls? Where is the actual evidence for them? Which branch of science are you using to determine this hypothesis of yours? The notion of souls is a religious one so why do you as an atheist believe in them? When you say We are both the same what exactly are you referring to? Do you really think consciousness can exist outside of the body? If you do can you give any actual examples that can be investigated by science? You have said that I am like a broken record that repeats the same thing over and over again on this subject but that just means I am consistent. I will change my mind when you provide evidence to support the claims you are making something which you have so far failed to do. Without evidence I have no reason to think what you say is true. If you have a genius level IQ it would be very easy for you to do
Doesn't matter what my IQ is, because hospitals just wont listen to me. Closeminded folks just can't be reasoned with. I've been trying to set up experiments at hospitals to measure the souls of sick and dying patients, but they just won't let me. All I have to go on, is shoddy articles written by people with reporter jobs they don't deserve talking about scientific evidence of souls. But I would like to find out myself. But these hospitals, they just won't listen to me. The wheels of society keep churning and always steam roll the voice of reason.

That other guy, CelebrityDave?, mentioned it as well. You can self-publish, but that's all. And even the "gods" have to allow you to do that. The "gods" control everything about society. (And by "gods" i mean power-hungry men ie. dragons.)

(Also, imagine this post narrated in the voice of Applejack.)

EchoesOfTheHorizon
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Re: The Bizzarreness of Split Lives and Consciousness

Post by EchoesOfTheHorizon » Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:06 pm

Time can exist in the fast majority of theories with the universe being composed of Matter, you are not giving a explanation here why it should differ by your use of words.

And consciousness isn't limited to visuals. It can be seeing, but you are asserting a sense of self to that seeing. The seeing apparatus cannot see.

Consciousness is a network in the brain. Just like cars in the city reside on the network of roads. It isn't a road spot, in the map of the city.

surreptitious57
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Re: The Bizzarreness of Split Lives and Consciousness

Post by surreptitious57 » Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:44 pm

GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:
I have been trying to set up experiments at hospitals to measure the souls of sick and dying patients but they just wont let me. All I have to go on is shoddy articles written by people with reporter jobs they dont deserve talking about scientific evidence of souls. But I would like to find out my
self. But these hospitals they just wont listen to me. The wheels of society keep churning and always steam roll the voice of reason
No hospital in the world would let you anywhere near sick and dying patients as you are not medically qualified. You need to get your information another way. You could check paranormal sites or the findings of parapsychologists. You could read up on NDEs and see what neuro scientists have to say about it. There is a wealth of information out there. How reliable it is is another matter but you should still check it all out and do so from your computer so you dont have to go anywhere near a hospital. I dont believe in eternal consciousness but you do and so there is nothing to stop you from investigating it if you are really as serious about it as you claim to be

Turd can you please provide some useful links to help Trixie get started on this

EchoesOfTheHorizon
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Re: The Bizzarreness of Split Lives and Consciousness

Post by EchoesOfTheHorizon » Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:00 pm

No, because I don't assert consciousness is eternal. I have stated many times in the past that I have problems with the concept of infinity, and while have had a few breakthroughs with superstack equations, it has it's limitations. I take the soul lasting forever as a mystery, especially given other aspects of doctrine links the soul as not being made of Matter or Energy, not of this universe created Ex Nihilo. It would be a contradictory exercise for a Christian with any basic knowledge on the subject to set up a scientific test to prove souls arising, and going somewhere in space. Only a extreme minority of Christians believe in reincarnation, so I certainly am not going to be able to design a test to trace the migration of souls.

We never solidly defined what was going on, so don't take attacks against it seriously. Seemed always content to leave it as a mystery, and I'm content to as well, despite my awareness of competing theories for what is going on, and my own internal conclusions. I don't care to force belief of one system of the soul over another, beyond basic neural science.

In Trixie's case, he has a migration of souls minus Karma, so that means minus anything resembling Dharma. So a ethical argument within Hindu reincarnation is dead. He thinks it is materially discoverable, using the antics of a Cartesian scientist, so whatever. He also accepts the Nietzschean notion of eternal return, as well, and is abhorrent at the lack of a sense of free will over one's self, but also demands some sort of transcendental breakout, but hasn't a concept of Buddhist negation or Christian heaven.... but seems okay with concepts of hell, despite rebelling against it.

Most I can recommend is a deep study of syllogism on his part. You simply cannot, and it has ALWAYS been the case, on a ideological level, prove the existence of the soul. Something tarded modern professors in psychology courses insist on covering up in their not so clever repartee against older systems of belief. Consciousness might not be the soul at all. Not the sense of self.

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GreatandWiseTrixie
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Re: The Bizzarreness of Split Lives and Consciousness

Post by GreatandWiseTrixie » Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:08 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:44 pm
GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:
I have been trying to set up experiments at hospitals to measure the souls of sick and dying patients but they just wont let me. All I have to go on is shoddy articles written by people with reporter jobs they dont deserve talking about scientific evidence of souls. But I would like to find out my
self. But these hospitals they just wont listen to me. The wheels of society keep churning and always steam roll the voice of reason
No hospital in the world would let you anywhere near sick and dying patients as you are not medically qualified. You need to get your information another way. You could check paranormal sites or the findings of parapsychologists. You could read up on NDEs and see what neuro scientists have to say about it. There is a wealth of information out there. How reliable it is is another matter but you should still check it all out and do so from your computer so you dont have to go anywhere near a hospital. I dont believe in eternal consciousness but you do and so there is nothing to stop you from investigating it if you are really as serious about it as you claim to be

Turd can you please provide some useful links to help Trixie get started on this
Thing is, I don't need to get near the dead or dying. All I want nurses to do is obey me. Every article I read about NDEs are unscientific and not properly set up. When I try to introduce them to the Scientific Method none of them will listen to me. Hospitals are ran by stuck up doctors with PhD's, don't want to hear anything about the Scientific Method, everybody thinks they know best, don't want to listen to Dr. Houses suggestions. It's like the tv show Dr. House, everyone at the hospital gives resistance to their ideas.

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Arising_uk
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Re: The Bizzarreness of Split Lives and Consciousness

Post by Arising_uk » Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:35 am

GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:Have you ever stopped to wonder Why you are in Your body and I am in My Body?
No because you are that body and I am this one, that and that we had different parents.
What causes Us, two pure, and healthy souls, to enter different bodies? ...
Nothing as there are no souls entering different bodies.
Why are we both equally valid?
Because we are two bodies.
Yet equally separate and different?
No idea what your question is here?
You get born into one body. I get born into another body. ...
No this body gets born that body gets born.
And we go through life clueless as to why. ...
It's called sexual reproduction.
We are both the same, yet in different bodies. ...
We're not the same each body is uniquely different.
Why. What determines this.
So far the best explanation appears the be the Theory of Evolution and Genetics.
If someone takes your brain, splits it in two, and puts it in another body. Assuming they somehow keep both bodies alive...Which body will You be in? The left or right brain?
You won't be in it, you will be a different body and without another half I suspect a very faulty one.
Or let's take it a step further. Say you say, "you stay in original body due to inertia."
Okay, so let's defeat that argument.
Okay, lets create the tech to chop your entire body in half, but give you a synthetic halves of new bodies so you stay alive.

Which half is "You"? That your consciousness stays into? Left or Right half? Your consciousness cannot be conscious of two bodies at once...or can it?
No it can't, there will be a different consciousness in each one, memory is not in either the right or left halves it's in a variety of places and chopping them in half is likely to destroy them but say it doesn't and you manage to mirror all the functions then there will be two bodies that think they are the original but will have to deal with noticing that they aren't. There is no permanent 'you' other than that there is a body.

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bahman
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Re: The Bizzarreness of Split Lives and Consciousness

Post by bahman » Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:03 pm

GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:12 am
That's all well and good, but doesn't explain the real puzzle here. If the body is cut in half, but quickly put into some kind of scientific goo so that it survives...Which part is the consciousness in?

Consciousness is described as the First Person Perspective Camera observing reality.

And if the universe is only matter, no magic, then Time does not exist. Thus if 2 brains are merged, Consciousness will not go back in time to experience the babyhood of the original mind. The original mind never existed. If Time does not exist, and only substance exists, the only substance in the universe that exists is My Consciousness, noone else can simultaneously have the First Person Camera in them, since the First Person Camera cannot go back in time and experience their childhood.
There will be two separate persons. The process of cutting of the brain can be performed until a level that the brain stays in a coherent state.

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GreatandWiseTrixie
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Re: The Bizzarreness of Split Lives and Consciousness

Post by GreatandWiseTrixie » Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:55 am

Both of you need to evolve and get on my level. Like what you're saying is frustrating, like I'm talking to a random person on the street or something. Get on my mental level. It isn't easy being a genius.

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bahman
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Re: The Bizzarreness of Split Lives and Consciousness

Post by bahman » Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:17 pm

GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:55 am
Both of you need to evolve and get on my level. Like what you're saying is frustrating, like I'm talking to a random person on the street or something. Get on my mental level. It isn't easy being a genius.
I think I was correct. There is no Bizarre. You get two persons when you divide brain into two pieces.

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Arising_uk
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Re: The Bizzarreness of Split Lives and Consciousness

Post by Arising_uk » Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:11 am

GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:... It isn't easy being a genius.
I suspect it isn't but how would you know?

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