The mental Universe

So what's really going on?

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attofishpi
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Re: The mental Universe

Post by attofishpi » Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:58 am

Trajk Logik wrote:
attofishpi wrote:Beyond that, why should i provide answers to how i came to know God - when there is not a man i have met that deserves such answers...earn it.
Riiiiiight. Like someone with your attitude and way of treating others does deserve it? Give me a fucking break, dude. Any god you believe in must be a moron. Never mind.
Yes your arrogance brought out my attitude by stating at the outset "I can guarantee that you didn't arrive at the notion, "I know God exists" in a logical, reasonable manner."

Considering i'm a computer programmer i do have a pretty good grasp of logic.
I've called God a lot worse than a 'moron'.
Nevermind, i cant be bothered with the forum for now anyway.

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Dontaskme
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Re: The mental Universe

Post by Dontaskme » Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:43 pm

Trajk Logik wrote: If God is so intimate with me, then why am I a "human" mind? Why would "I" be in this difficult predicament of finding something I'm so intimate with so difficult to grasp? It's so easy to see the contradictions, I'm wondering why it's not so easy for you to spot. Do you proof-read your posts?
Because there is no such thing as a '' human mind'' ....except as conceived ..(conceptually known) but never seen. Has any one seen a mind?

And there lies the paradox/contradiction...which is unavoidable when trying to point to the unseen non-conceptual using concepts.

What you are is not the object conceived, you are the inconceivable pure awareness of every concept. That's God. That's you... subject and object are one not two. You are only ever the subject objectifying itself as a known/seen object inseparable from the unseen subject.
You are an image of the imagless. but are so identified with the image the one projecting the image is ignored. That's God, it's hidden in plain sight,it's what's manifesting reality right now. I don't understand what concept you have of what else God is?

Every concept conceived is an illusion simply because what's conceiving cannot be conceived? think about that which is conceiving, can that one be conceived? and by what?

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Trajk Logik
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Re: The mental Universe

Post by Trajk Logik » Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:39 pm

attofishpi wrote:
Trajk Logik wrote:
attofishpi wrote:Beyond that, why should i provide answers to how i came to know God - when there is not a man i have met that deserves such answers...earn it.
Riiiiiight. Like someone with your attitude and way of treating others does deserve it? Give me a fucking break, dude. Any god you believe in must be a moron. Never mind.
Yes your arrogance brought out my attitude by stating at the outset "I can guarantee that you didn't arrive at the notion, "I know God exists" in a logical, reasonable manner."

Considering i'm a computer programmer i do have a pretty good grasp of logic.
I've called God a lot worse than a 'moron'.
Nevermind, i cant be bothered with the forum for now anyway.
I'm a computer programmer. Steve Jobs famously said, "I think everyone in this country should learn a computer language, or learn how to program a computer, because it teaches you how to think." It obviously didn't work for you. You're like most "scientists" who claim to believe in both evolution and god, they aren't consistent in their application of their logic.

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Trajk Logik
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Re: The mental Universe

Post by Trajk Logik » Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:41 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Trajk Logik wrote: If God is so intimate with me, then why am I a "human" mind? Why would "I" be in this difficult predicament of finding something I'm so intimate with so difficult to grasp? It's so easy to see the contradictions, I'm wondering why it's not so easy for you to spot. Do you proof-read your posts?
Because there is no such thing as a '' human mind'' ....except as conceived ..(conceptually known) but never seen. Has any one seen a mind?
"Human mind" were your words in your post. If such things don't exist, then why did you use those words yourself? You're deranged. I'm sorry. I don't have any more time for this.

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Dontaskme
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Re: The mental Universe

Post by Dontaskme » Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:01 pm

Trajk Logik wrote:
Dontaskme wrote:
Trajk Logik wrote: If God is so intimate with me, then why am I a "human" mind? Why would "I" be in this difficult predicament of finding something I'm so intimate with so difficult to grasp? It's so easy to see the contradictions, I'm wondering why it's not so easy for you to spot. Do you proof-read your posts?
Because there is no such thing as a '' human mind'' ....except as conceived ..(conceptually known) but never seen. Has any one seen a mind?
"Human mind" were your words in your post. If such things don't exist, then why did you use those words yourself? You're deranged. I'm sorry. I don't have any more time for this.
Yes, my words not yours.You were right. I said human mind, simply because there is an appearance of human mind expressing itself via concepts. I only know concepts.. I have no knowledge of anything that is not a concept. I have no idea what I am without a concept, it's the only thing I know so lets identify with every thought concept and be that knowledge for what else could I be? ...but who exactly is being?

what is a thought, what is the mind? ...how, when or where did /does / the mind and it's concepts begin or end? aren't these just more conceptual ideas about ideas...but hey it's okay, lets call this mind ''mine'' even though I can not conceive or see it.

The ''my'' mind is caught up in the field of logical thinking, and that there is no beginning, that there is no end, is something which shatters the whole fabric, the foundation of our logical thinking.

Believe you are your mind if you wish, that's your delusion, but don't expect others to do same. Thoughts come and leave, so you can't be your thought. what you are doesn't enter or leave, you stay ...totally unhinged from every thought.



.

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Harbal
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Re: The mental Universe

Post by Harbal » Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:37 pm

attofishpi wrote: Considering i'm a computer programmer i do have a pretty good grasp of logic.
So logic doesn't actually require intelligence, that's interesting.

Reflex
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Bad News for Skeptics

Post by Reflex » Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:40 am

Since human consciousness evinces self-reflective awareness in the human brain, and since this brain (like all physical phenomena) can be viewed as an emergent and non-local property of the whole, it is not unreasonable to conclude, in philosophical terms at least, that the universe is conscious. From this perspective, it is not possible to argue that a profound sense of unity with the whole, which has long been understood as the foundation of religious experience, can be dismissed, undermined, or invalidated with appeals to scientific knowledge.

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Dontaskme
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Re: Bad News for Skeptics

Post by Dontaskme » Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:12 am

Reflex wrote:Since human consciousness evinces self-reflective awareness in the human brain, and since this brain (like all physical phenomena) can be viewed as an emergent and non-local property of the whole, it is not unreasonable to conclude, in philosophical terms at least, that the universe is conscious. From this perspective, it is not possible to argue that a profound sense of unity with the whole, which has long been understood as the foundation of religious experience, can be dismissed, undermined, or invalidated with appeals to scientific knowledge.
What if the whole universe is unconscious?

What is it that's conscious, knows it is conscious?

Reflex
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Re: Bad News for Skeptics

Post by Reflex » Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:07 pm

Dontaskme wrote: What if the whole universe is unconscious?

What is it that's conscious, knows it is conscious?
You're trying too hard to sound profound. A Wei Wu Wei you're not.

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Dontaskme
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Re: Bad News for Skeptics

Post by Dontaskme » Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:43 pm

Reflex wrote: A Wei Wu Wei you're not.
Wei Wu Wei is consciousness which I Am not.

osgart
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Re: The mental Universe

Post by osgart » Fri Apr 28, 2017 1:24 am

now scientists are taking seriously the simulation theory which plays into intelligent design . why don't people that are materialists stop assuming that we are only atoms in light of quantum entanglement? the universe has conceptual properties and concepts are not physical. with today's science it is rational to consider a non physical reality of forms.
we use mental constructs to form knowledge about existence. why wouldn't nature do the same. For instance the world is conceived of as three dimensional. things in the first dimension aren't physical. add the second dimension and still material reality isn't tangible. It's only when you add the third dimension do things become material. Now perhaps are concept of dimensions is merely a human construct and not truly representative of actuality. yet space and it's area is abstract. does space exist or is space itself the absence of all things physical til something material becomes. Space is abstract yet is a very real reality. what exists beyond the limits of space? materialists assume the power of existence is space and matter and energy. what they consider to be superstition; a non physical reality of Plato's forms, in light of quantum entanglement, isn't far fetched anymore. Now reality is considered to be information. And black holes devour matter and dimensionality itself. it seems that reality is concept every bit as much as physical.
mind can only become by way of mind creating mind seems obvious enough. yet materialists look at independent reality and can't wrap their heads around the plausibility of a non physical reality. why?
a more advanced experiment was done recently on quantum entanglement where as the location and movement of one particle constantly affects the other particle once entangled and than completely separated they never lose relation. it seems that a memory is at work. the particles don't lose their non local relationship totally regardless of distance.
So perhaps their is a memory field that is non physical; because it's a non local relationship, that constantly collects information as new reactions happen.
Now if the universe has a memory, you might wonder; because living creatures exist in conveniently functional and artistic ways, perhaps their is a non physical force in the universe that acts as its paintbrush and the universe is merely the creators canvas of raw materials. You would be foolish to call stupid people that wonder if this is so. So many of the greatest minds that ever lived and made the world what it is today in terms of knowledge wondered the same simple thing.
otherwise can senseless brute randomness And mindless incident produce order and beings that understand and reason?
All non materialists do is consider the possibility that subjective experience is fundamental to existence. As the ability to understand itself isn't tangible.
And now today their is strong evidence to regard that position. max Planck believed it to be so as he stated that the universe is that mind created matter.
The mind or minds that created matter are most likely apart of this reality and exist perhaps in an ethereal reality that produces are experience.
They probably have weaknesses and limitations yet exist closer to the true nature of reality than we do.

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