Proof that all is ONENESS

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surreptitious57
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Re: Proof that all is ONENESS

Post by surreptitious57 » Sat Dec 23, 2017 7:35 am

Dontaskme wrote:
The apparent known me is the splitting of unconscious oneness into consciousness aka to be known to become known
So consciousness is really non consciousness and so convincing is the illusion that consciousness does not know where it originated from
But even though it is an illusion it is still at the same time very real for the conscious minds that are experiencing it would you not say

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Eodnhoj7
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Re: Proof that all is ONENESS

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:18 pm

daramantus wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:12 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 6:01 pm
daramantus wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:02 am


There is obviously 1, 2, 3, 4.......... There are many numbers to describe many objects, and etc.........
Everything is not separate because of numbers, but because of distance.
What is distance but the relation between dimensions rooted in "1" (the line).

There is nothing unified, and there never was, there is no singularity, and nothing is connected.
Okay, prove it.

Your theory doesn't even make sense.
Jesus Christ, you don'1 give up your stupid fantasy. Can't tell if you're a troll or just fucking MENTAL.

Judging by your anger issues would it be fair if I asked you the same?

What is distance?
an amount of space between two things or people.
an amount of space between 2 things or people.
an amount of space between 2 things or people.
an amount of space between 2 things or people.

Distance is merely relation between particulate, with particulate being an approximation of unity, through the observation of time as movement. Unity and Multiplicity are duals, with the third element as "dimension" equating the prior as 1 in 3 and 3 in 1. I feel like I am repeating myself over and over again, or maybe I am over estimating your ability to deduct forms.

you don't make any sense, jesus. There isn't anything rooted in anything, 1 , 2 , 3 are numbers we use to describe separate objects , there isn't any line. You just love the number 1.

Well if there "isn't anything rooted in anything", and numbers are rooted in description as a form of consciousness, are numbers rooted in consciousness? If so, and numbers are rooted in consciousness, do I actualize them through measurement when I observe them?

There is no oneness, Clear and simple. There is nothing that came from ONE, TWO, THREE... INFINITY BLAH BLAH
you love it, you sure want it so bad to be true, but it isn't.
I don't want it to be true or not to be true, it just happens to be true. Are you sure it isn't you who wants the world to be a certain way?


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Eodnhoj7
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Re: Proof that all is ONENESS

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:27 pm

daramantus wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:21 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:18 pm
daramantus wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:12 pm


Jesus Christ, you don'1 give up your stupid fantasy. Can't tell if you're a troll or just fucking MENTAL.

Judging by your anger issues would it be fair if I asked you the same?

What is distance?
an amount of space between two things or people.
an amount of space between 2 things or people.
an amount of space between 2 things or people.
an amount of space between 2 things or people.

Distance is merely relation between particulate, with particulate being an approximation of unity, through the observation of time as movement. Unity and Multiplicity are duals, with the third element as "dimension" equating the prior as 1 in 3 and 3 in 1. I feel like I am repeating myself over and over again.

you don't make any sense, jesus. There isn't anything rooted in anything, 1 , 2 , 3 are numbers we use to describe separate objects , there isn't any line. You just love the number 1.

Well if there "isn't anything rooted in anything", and numbers are rooted in description as a form of consciousness, are numbers rooted in consciousness? If so, and numbers are rooted in consciousness, do I actualize them through measurement when I observe them?

There is no oneness, Clear and simple. There is nothing that came from ONE, TWO, THREE... INFINITY BLAH BLAH
you love it, you sure want it so bad to be true, but it isn't.
I don't want it to be true or not to be true, it just happens to be true. Are you sure it isn't you who wants the world to be a certain way?

You want it to be true because it doesn't "just" happen to be true, if it did, you wouldn't be insisting in YOUR theory, that doesn't make sense. Btw, are you taking classes with dontaskme?
Thanks, but it is not my theory.

No, it's not me. I provide evidence, you provide none. You have no evidence for any of your claims, however, they are all DISCARDED. you gave me one theory that was refuted long time ago, and then now you are repeating your garbage as if it was making sense.

Discarded by whom? You?

Are you butthurt that oneness is non existent?
Are you seriously going to start crying?

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Eodnhoj7
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Re: Proof that all is ONENESS

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:43 pm

daramantus wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:31 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:27 pm
daramantus wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:21 pm


You want it to be true because it doesn't "just" happen to be true, if it did, you wouldn't be insisting in YOUR theory, that doesn't make sense. Btw, are you taking classes with dontaskme?
Thanks, but it is not my theory.

No, it's not me. I provide evidence, you provide none. You have no evidence for any of your claims, however, they are all DISCARDED. you gave me one theory that was refuted long time ago, and then now you are repeating your garbage as if it was making sense.

Discarded by whom? You?

Are you butthurt that oneness is non existent?
Are you seriously going to start crying?
No??? then whose is it? show me the peer reviewed article and the proof of your theory of "oneness" and "infinity", go ahead.
Its an extension of parmenides, anaximander and further presocratics such as heraclitus and pythagoras. It is also an extension of wittgenstein, husserl, heidegger, hegel, neitzche, and a number of other philosophers you have probably never even heard of.

If you want more recent peer reviewed work about the concept of infinity then maybe you should take it up with mathematicians who observe infinite series, etc.

If the question is whether this work is specfically published? Not yet, still working on it, hence the arguments. Most likely it will be ready in 6 months to a year, or 3 months by luck. But if peer review is your standard of proof, one that I am not against specifically, is still falls under the logical fallacy of appeal to authority. However many of the articles you posted where not peer approved, so I do not know what standard you think you are judging by.

So you are wrong in several respects:

First the concept of infinity is publically acknowledged in mathematics at minimum yet you do not acknowledge it. If you do not believe this then the infinity sign alone observes this.

Second you are not peer approved, according to your own standards, unless their is something I am missing. So by default your argument, on its own terms, is faulty.

Third it is a logical fallacy as appeal to authority.

Fourth, you have no authority to judge what is right and wrong if the best you can do is throw insults, which frankly are not good. You remind me of people who are angry at the world because no one will pay attention to them.

What is it with atheists and their self righteousness?

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Eodnhoj7
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Re: Proof that all is ONENESS

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:07 pm

daramantus wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:57 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:43 pm
daramantus wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:31 pm


No??? then whose is it? show me the peer reviewed article and the proof of your theory of "oneness" and "infinity", go ahead.
Its an extension of parmenides, anaximander and further presocratics such as heraclitus and pythagoras. It you want more recent peer reviewed work about the concept of infinity then maybe you should take it up with mathematicians who observe infinite series, etc. It is an extension of wittgenstein, husserl, heidegger, hegel, neitzche, and a number of other philosophers you have probably never even heard of.

If the question is whether this work is specfically published? Not yet, still working on it, hence the arguments. Most likely it will be ready in 6 months to a year, or 3 months by luck. But if peer review is your standard of proof, one that I am not against specifically, is still falls under the logical fallacy of appeal to authority. However many of the articles you posted where not peer approved, so I do not know what standard you think you are judging by.

So you are wrong in several respects:

First the concept of infinity is publically acknowledged in mathematics at minimum yet you do not acknowledge it. If you do not believe this then the infinity sign alone observes this.

Second you are not peer approved, according to your own standards, unless their is something I am missing. So by default your argument, on its own terms, is faulty.

Third it is a logical fallacy as appeal to authority.

Fourth, you have no authority to judge what is right and wrong if the best you can do is throw insults, which frankly are not good. You remind me of people who are angry at the world because no one will pay attention to them.

What is it with atheists and their self righteousness?
Useless trash like you is necessary, it gives the world something to burn when it gets cold out.


parmenides? :lol: :lol: , you're preaching some age-old bullshit refuted thousands of years ago?????? jesus christ.
heraclitus was the opposite of parmenides, but also babble a lot of nonsense, and both were refuted by Aristotle's.
LOL, so easy to disprove pythagoras: https://www.futilitycloset.com/2009/07/ ... disproved/ All his calculations were disproved.

To tell you the truth, I didn't even bother reading it. Unless he disproves all 370+ proofs whatever, this "whoever", is arguing is not rational.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythagore ... he_theorem

You seem to quote only philosophers that believed in the absurdity of idealism, and ignoring others.
Neitszche was an idealist?

Yes, I've heard of them, hegel (Hegelianism) (Hegelian Dialectic) ~ His goal was to reduce reality to a more synthetic unity within the system of absolute idealism. ~ wiki
Which is total nonsense, of course. As idealism by itself is false, let alone absolute idealism, and trying to "reduce" reality will always be subjective to the perceiver and his ideas, perception is not reality. https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/w ... /hegel.htm
Is that your idea?


"First the concept of infinity is publically acknowledged in mathematics"
In our material, measurable world, though, infinity is never a real, physical quantity; it is only an abstraction.
But it is not considered true unless it is measured, and what measures it (abstraction) exists if and only if it is infinite. Physical "quantities", what so the physical reality does not exist unless it is a quantity?

A mathematician can tell you about an infinite set of numbers, but as much as he wishes, he can't find you a cup of coffee with infinite joe. Therefore, you can't prove that there is an infinity beyond it, or it still finite.
Infinity is proof, because if a proof is not infinite (temporal) one day it will be true and another day false. If you are arguing everything is temporal in nature, does that mean your "knowledge" will pass with time?

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Eodnhoj7
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Re: Proof that all is ONENESS

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Sat Dec 23, 2017 10:01 pm

daramantus wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:50 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:07 pm
daramantus wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:57 pm

Useless trash like you is necessary, it gives the world something to burn when it gets cold out.


parmenides? :lol: :lol: , you're preaching some age-old bullshit refuted thousands of years ago?????? jesus christ.
heraclitus was the opposite of parmenides, but also babble a lot of nonsense, and both were refuted by Aristotle's.
LOL, so easy to disprove pythagoras: https://www.futilitycloset.com/2009/07/ ... disproved/ All his calculations were disproved.

To tell you the truth, I didn't even bother reading it. Unless he disproves all 370+ proofs whatever, this "whoever", is arguing is not rational.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythagore ... he_theorem

You seem to quote only philosophers that believed in the absurdity of idealism, and ignoring others.
Neitszche was an idealist?

Yes, I've heard of them, hegel (Hegelianism) (Hegelian Dialectic) ~ His goal was to reduce reality to a more synthetic unity within the system of absolute idealism. ~ wiki
Which is total nonsense, of course. As idealism by itself is false, let alone absolute idealism, and trying to "reduce" reality will always be subjective to the perceiver and his ideas, perception is not reality. https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/w ... /hegel.htm
Is that your idea?


"First the concept of infinity is publically acknowledged in mathematics"
In our material, measurable world, though, infinity is never a real, physical quantity; it is only an abstraction.
But it is not considered true unless it is measured, and what measures it (abstraction) exists if and only if it is infinite. Physical "quantities", what so the physical reality does not exist unless it is a quantity?

A mathematician can tell you about an infinite set of numbers, but as much as he wishes, he can't find you a cup of coffee with infinite joe. Therefore, you can't prove that there is an infinity beyond it, or it still finite.
Infinity is proof, because if a proof is not infinite (temporal) one day it will be true and another day false. If you are arguing everything is temporal in nature, does that mean your "knowledge" will pass with time?

Of course, if something is true, then it's objectively true, but that doesn't mean you need to add the concept of "infinity" to it.
So the laws of thermodynamics will not last forever?


And yes, my knowledge changes, you know, we can have a different knowledge and a wrong knowing about objective truths. Everything is temporal in nature, even the sunsets do not land the same way. even the sun today, is not the same sun from yesterday, even the sun has changed, what was before, is no longer truth, and yes the Earth is rotating, it's a fact, is it infinitely rotating?
So the sun is not the sun?

No, the Earth could be destroyed , we are all susceptible and even prone to it . Did you know that even the laws of physics can change depending where you are in?

Then how are they laws and not theories? If so, then you have no objective proof as what is true one day is not true the next. Your concept for proof is ever changing, yet you require it as a constant.

I have yet to find a immutable being, a infinity powerful being, a immutable unaffected unborn being beyond space and time beyond all concepts.
If change is continual, does that make it an eternal law?

Dontaskme
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Re: Proof that all is ONENESS

Post by Dontaskme » Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:50 pm

Daramantus

And what is inside of you, only you know.
That’s the proof right there, no one can know another persons conscious experience...they can only know their own.
They can never prove another persons existence, it’s an assumption that other people exist only because you exist...but it is you who are creating those others. And this works for everyone of us...we are artificially creating others... there is no way to prove another consciousness outside your own...there is only your own conscious creation, proof that oneness is the only consciousness creating multiple versions of itself ...

Do you not understand that?


————

Even the idea that you exist is an assumption ..you create yourself, but have no idea how you are able to do that, you have no idea of your origin, or what happens after death...and the reason is logically simple, it’s because you are an idea, you don’t have consciousness ...you ARE consciousness....which is an impenetrable mystery even to itself.

It’s impenetrable because that’s what oneness is...that’s what it means.

It’s THIS...and ONLY THIS

.

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Eodnhoj7
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Re: Proof that all is ONENESS

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:46 pm

daramantus wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 10:07 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 10:01 pm
daramantus wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:50 pm



Of course, if something is true, then it's objectively true, but that doesn't mean you need to add the concept of "infinity" to it.
So the laws of thermodynamics will not last forever?


And yes, my knowledge changes, you know, we can have a different knowledge and a wrong knowing about objective truths. Everything is temporal in nature, even the sunsets do not land the same way. even the sun today, is not the same sun from yesterday, even the sun has changed, what was before, is no longer truth, and yes the Earth is rotating, it's a fact, is it infinitely rotating?
So the sun is not the sun?

No, the Earth could be destroyed , we are all susceptible and even prone to it . Did you know that even the laws of physics can change depending where you are in?

Then how are they laws and not theories? If so, then you have no objective proof as what is true one day is not true the next. Your concept for proof is ever changing, yet you require it as a constant.

I have yet to find a immutable being, a infinity powerful being, a immutable unaffected unborn being beyond space and time beyond all concepts.
If change is continual, does that make it an eternal law?
It isn't continual, it either changes or it doesn't, Nope, I wouldn't call it any "law", let alone "eternal" , change is simply "something substituted for something else", making either an essential difference often amounting to a loss of original identity or a substitution of one thing for another.. If there was nothing else to be substitutied for, then change wouldn't exist. Therefore, I don't know why the need to add "law" "eternal" "infinity" to these concepts.
So change does operate according to an eternal law as "something substituted for something else"? Or does that change too?

If change exists if and only if there is something to be "substituted", does that mean the substitute is a dimension itself? In simpler terms, the substituted "reality", we will call it, exists if and only if there is a space for it to inhibit. In a seperate respect the substitute also contains space, much in the same way as a vessel. In these respects the substitute maintains itself through both inhabiting and containing a dimension. Do these dimensions change to? Is Dimensionality a constant?

Londoner
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Re: Proof that all is ONENESS

Post by Londoner » Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:07 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:50 pm
That’s the proof right there, no one can know another persons conscious experience...they can only know their own.
They can never prove another persons existence, it’s an assumption that other people exist only because you exist...but it is you who are creating those others. And this works for everyone of us...we are artificially creating others... there is no way to prove another consciousness outside your own...there is only your own conscious creation, proof that oneness is the only consciousness creating multiple versions of itself ...
If we can't know, then we can't know, if we can't prove something we can't prove it. I do not see how not knowing something becomes proof of something.

We work on the assumption that other people have conscious experiences because that assumption is useful, it enables us to predict how they will behave. Or, to be more accurate, it accounts for our failures to predict how they will behave. You say 'no one can know another persons conscious experience', which is true. We cannot know another persons consciousness in the way we know a material object, such that other people become entirely predictable. So what we infer about other people, when we say 'they are conscious', is that there is something hidden from us.

If their consciousness was created by my own, why would anything be hidden?
Even the idea that you exist is an assumption ..you create yourself, but have no idea how you are able to do that, you have no idea of your origin, or what happens after death...and the reason is logically simple, it’s because you are an idea, you don’t have consciousness ...you ARE consciousness....which is an impenetrable mystery even to itself.

It’s impenetrable because that’s what oneness is...that’s what it means.

It’s THIS...and ONLY THIS
You say 'you create yourself', which I agree with, but only in the sense of giving meaning to phrases like 'you exist' . The 'you' always means something; 'you - your body', or 'you- this thought' or 'you - this citizen'. In all these cases I certainly do have an idea of my origin; I know where babies come from, I know about brains, etc. There is only a mystery if we try to understand 'exist' on its own, as a pure abstraction, but that mystery arises simply from a misuse of language.

I think the same thing is true of 'consciousness'. We don't just 'have' consciousness; we are always conscious of something. It may be a physical thing (assuming there are physical things), or it could be just an idea, but we stand in relationship to it. You are conscious of this post, which is to say you are aware of it as something that is not-you. As with 'exist', 'consciousness' only becomes a mystery if we treat it as if it was a thing in itself.

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Re: Proof that all is ONENESS

Post by Dontaskme » Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:28 pm

Londoner wrote:
Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:07 am


If we can't know, then we can't know, if we can't prove something we can't prove it. I do not see how not knowing something becomes proof of something.
Proof is just a figure of speech within the dream story of ''I exist'' where there are talking characters communicating with each other.

In reality, there is no one to prove anything about any thing or everything since that would require a prover which is an imagined idea.

.

It does appear that any ''thing'' does seem to arise within the consciousness / awareness of that ''thing''.. and these two apparent things, the awareness and the thing itself appear to be separate, but that is the illusion, the thing cannot be separate from that which is aware-ing that thing into existence.

The awareness already IS without doubt or error...it has to be for any thing ELSE to be...THE ELSE is never separated from that which has sourced it into existence.

The awareness of any ''thing'' cannot be that ''thing'' it is aware of ..neither can it recognise itself as that ''thing''...it can only be aware of the ''thing''....the awareness is self-evident and is self-proving ...no ''other'' can prove that because it is THAT...

A ''thing'' cannot be known by the ''thing'' itself, because that which is a ''known thing'' is known by that which is unknowable. That which is known cannot know anything, known things are within the eternal unknown dreamer..appearing as the known....therefore illusory images of the imageless.

.

You may probably already know this L..but just repeating for the sake of other readers.

The sense of 'self' has only got questions, because questions can only arise where there is a sense of 'separate self'

This will go on indefinitely since there are no answers, if there were answers, we'd all be in agreement with each other.

The reality is, there are no answers because there is no questioneer, except as imagined.

.

Atla
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Re: Proof that all is ONENESS

Post by Atla » Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:19 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Tue Oct 04, 2016 7:06 am
We are literally made out of the space we're sitting in.

Matter is space. Space is matter.

We are not in space, we are space.

We cannot get outside of space. There is only space.

There is no inside of you.

There is no outside of you.

There is only you.

Inside of you is you. Outside of you is you.

You can't find you anywhere. You are everywhere.

You are what you are looking for.

What's looked for is what's looking.

Everywhere you go there you are.

There is nowhere to go.

Nowhere is always here. There is nowhere else.

Where does space begin, where does space end.

Is space in matter or is matter in space. Neither, they are ONE and the same.

Space doesn't change. Matter changes.

Space has no shape. Matter is shape.

Space has no colour. Matter is colour.

Space has no taste. Matter is taste.

Space has no feeling. Matter is feeling.

Space as no odour. Matter is odour.

Space doesn't age. Matter ages.

Space is infinite. Matter is finite.

Matter appears in space(is born) and disappears in space(die) The space in which birth and death happen doesn't age,move, change, it's unborn and cannot die.

Matter is an illusion. Space is real.

Real could never be known, without knowing illusion.

Reality is both real and illusory, it's a real illusion.


We are emptiness and fullness at the same time.

We are nothing and everything.

Space can't be seen without seeing matter.

Matter can't be seen without seeing space.


No space - no matter.

No matter - no space.

Every thing is ONE

One = Zero

Zero = One

Life is binary.

Life is a simulation.


Everything is the same as Nothing. The only difference is in how they appear.

Appearances define space.

Space defines appearances.

Space the never ending place where endless dreams appear and disappear.

To be continued ....
Funny thing is, even science must acknowledge now that oneness is at least partially true in our universe. Because quantum entanglement correlations work instantaneously, regardless of distance.

Some went further and speculated that maybe because of the Big Bang (if there was one), everything might necessarily be entangled with everything else in the universe. But this is just speculation.

What did you mean by life is binary / a simulation? Did you mean that life appears to be binary, when we don't realize that space and matter too are nondual?

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Re: Proof that all is ONENESS

Post by Dontaskme » Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:50 am

Atla wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:19 pm

Funny thing is, even science must acknowledge now that oneness is at least partially true in our universe. Because quantum entanglement correlations work instantaneously, regardless of distance.
Science already has acknowledged it, it's all over youtube. The thing is if even one teeny tiny blade of grass was missing the whole universe would collapse, that's how tightly interconnected it is.
Atla wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:19 pm
Some went further and speculated that maybe because of the Big Bang (if there was one), everything might necessarily be entangled with everything else in the universe. But this is just speculation.
The big bang in my vision is like the birth of a child or any creature except on a larger scale obviously. On the micro scale a newly conceived human being goes through the process of expansion from micro to macro to micro again, meaning it starts off as a minute particle or atom expanding into the fully grown human made up of multiple particles / atoms, and at the same time is slowly degenerating and dispersing those particles until the mass disappears from vision, not that anything can disappear, it's just that they are too small to be seen, but that doesn't mean they are not here. Another example being a big pool of water when it evaporates due to heat, the water still exists, it's just that it's not invisible any more. So that's what happens during a big bang. It's like everything that ever is is nested inside within it's own self. Like dreams within dreams within dreams as Edgar Allan Poe was quoted as saying. The universe is working as a self sustaining feedback loop within itself on both the micro and macro level simultaneously. This could never be put into words, it's only a mystical vision, only the minds imaginary eye can invent itself...therefore, what ever the imagination dreams, is only ever a fictional story.

Atla wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:19 pm
What did you mean by life is binary / a simulation? Did you mean that life appears to be binary, when we don't realize that space and matter too are nondual?
Life does not reveal it's secrets because there is no one running it, no thing creating it, it's a runaway train with no knowable beginning nor end. There is only this energetic imagination of what it is, as told in the narrative of language. If there was never such a thing as language, no story would ever unfold in this unknowable what is, therefore, the stories that do apparently arise can only ever be fictional, aka reality is only ever a simulation of the mind, it's not real, it only appears real as a story. No person has ever seen a mind, and in fact no person has ever been seen, a person is just a known made up concept of no knowable source, sounds a bit fuzzy, but this is what non-duality is all about.

Binary means zero and one. Zero and One are complimentary opposites they appear different but are in actuality the same no/ thing. In other words one aka zero appears as itself to itself as two, but it's not two, because any number higher that 1 is just more of that 1 ..therefore all numbers above 1 depict separation which is imagined illusion, for there is only source...and source is only ever 1 with itself.
1 is really zero, it is no thing being every thing.

Sorry if this make no sense, but it makes sense to me, and if it doesn't make sense to you, take what is of value and reject the rest, we each have the capacity to imagine ..please remember that you are a unique expression of oneness, oneness expressing itself through the mind brain body mechanism is as unique and different as is a grain of sand.

This image is a good example of what I trying to tell you...https://i.pinimg.com/736x/56/1a/78/561a ... quotes.jpg

In other words, it really is okay to be yourself, because your world the way you see your world is unique to you only, because only you are creating it with your imagination, and therefore, it is of no body else's business.

We are all unique and then society makes us stupid by squeezing what is the most free and creative expansive thing ever to exist into tight little boxes where we cannot breathe. We are made to constantly feel small, fearing what others think about us without ever realising that there is no one behind those eyes we believe are watching and judging us...we do this until we stop and realise what's really happening, what's really going on, and that is known as awakening to the dream of separation.


.

Atla
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Re: Proof that all is ONENESS

Post by Atla » Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:26 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:50 am
Science already has acknowledged it, it's all over youtube. The thing is if even one teeny tiny blade of grass was missing the whole universe would collapse, that's how tightly interconnected it is.
I agree, in my opinion, even if even one particle was slightly misplaced or missing, the universe would be defective. But this is metaphysics, it's way beyond what can be proven or disproven today (or ever, perhaps), so I don't think it can really be acknowledged in science.
The big bang in my vision is like the birth of a child or any creature except on a larger scale obviously. On the micro scale a newly conceived human being goes through the process of expansion from micro to macro to micro again, meaning it starts off as a minute particle or atom expanding into the fully grown human made up of multiple particles / atoms, and at the same time is slowly degenerating and dispersing those particles until the mass disappears from vision, not that anything can disappear, it's just that they are too small to be seen, but that doesn't mean they are not here. Another example being a big pool of water when it evaporates due to heat, the water still exists, it's just that it's not invisible any more. So that's what happens during a big bang. It's like everything that ever is is nested inside within it's own self. Like dreams within dreams within dreams as Edgar Allan Poe was quoted as saying. The universe is working as a self sustaining feedback loop within itself on both the micro and macro level simultaneously. This could never be put into words, it's only a mystical vision, only the minds imaginary eye can invent itself...therefore, what ever the imagination dreams, is only ever a fictional story.
Yeah loops in loops, and maybe it even goes on, maybe the universe/something about the universe, is yet a part of an even greater loop.

That both human understanding and the universe are looplike, may not just be a coincidence. It seems to come really handy that we are well-equipped for thinking about the world.
Life does not reveal it's secrets because there is no one running it, no thing creating it, it's a runaway train with no knowable beginning nor end. There is only this energetic imagination of what it is, as told in the narrative of language. If there was never such a thing as language, no story would ever unfold in this unknowable what is, therefore, the stories that do apparently arise can only ever be fictional, aka reality is only ever a simulation of the mind, it's not real, it only appears real as a story. No person has ever seen a mind, and in fact no person has ever been seen, a person is just a known made up concept of no knowable source, sounds a bit fuzzy, but this is what non-duality is all about.
Well.. this is where I think that some have perverted nondualism too much, with all that emptiness nonsense. Sure, the "content" of the story is illusory, it is just the "simulation" of reality, a narrative that is running in your head. But that doesn't mean that the simulation itself doesn't exist. The simulation/story/narrative, or however we want to call it, is an actual happening in the head.

So the idea that no person exists, is just a horrible perversion of nondualism. Sure the person is illusory and our "true nature" is: being identical and one and the same with reality itself, we are it / tat tvam asi. BUT the "individual person" is also something in the head, it's psychological, it's neuroscientific and so on, and pretty much necessary for everyday life.

Consider this:

First mountains are mountains; then mountains are not mountains, they are / aren't whatever the heck; and finally mountains are mountains again.

Well the same should go for the individual self, once we've understood nondualism, we can finally return to being "this guy here".

Many nondualists seem to explain the individual self away as much as possible, which is in my opinion the main reason why most people in the West find nondualism rather repulsive. Because once you get into that state of mind, how the hell are you supposed to function in society.

Dontaskme
Posts: 5135
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm

Re: Proof that all is ONENESS

Post by Dontaskme » Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:02 pm

Atla wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:26 pm

Well.. this is where I think that some have perverted nondualism too much, with all that emptiness nonsense. Sure, the "content" of the story is illusory, it is just the "simulation" of reality, a narrative that is running in your head. But that doesn't mean that the simulation itself doesn't exist. The simulation/story/narrative, or however we want to call it, is an actual happening in the head.
Lets be clear here, at no point have I ever suggested the world does not exist, it does, it is what it is, but the assumed ''separate enity'' only sees the world not as it actually is..but how that ''separate entity'' is according to their world view and conditioning. Non-duality does not deny the external world. It's just saying that no one is living it, and that it's just living itself.
Atla wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:26 pm
So the idea that no person exists, is just a horrible perversion of nondualism. Sure the person is illusory and our "true nature" is: being identical and one and the same with reality itself, we are it / tat tvam asi. BUT the "individual person" is also something in the head, it's psychological, it's neuroscientific and so on, and pretty much necessary for everyday life.
Yes, it's quite shocking to realise the person is just a conceptual idea and that their real identity is not-a-thing...most would run away in fear of that, while others embrace it and are quite relieved to hear it.
Atla wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:26 pm
Consider this:

First mountains are mountains; then mountains are not mountains, they are / aren't whatever the heck; and finally mountains are mountains again.

Well the same should go for the individual self, once we've understood nondualism, we can finally return to being "this guy here".
I agree, when we realise what is really going on, life can seem so much sweeter actually. We become fearless so to speak.
Atla wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:26 pm
Many nondualists seem to explain the individual self away as much as possible, which is in my opinion the main reason why most people in the West find nondualism rather repulsive. Because once you get into that state of mind, how the hell are you supposed to function in society.
I agree, the most hardest part about awakening is having to function in society, it's really hard dealing with all the different egos, and knowing there is no one being that ego, it like we have to pretend to be someone just so we fit in ... sometimes, I wish I'd never awakened to the dream of separation because of how hard it is to live a normal life, once we awaken, we simply never return to the old way of being, we find that old self repulsive, it's so weird.. it's quite a lonely place to be as well because no one else seems to be able to fully understand us any more, it's very isolating, and I am beginning to believe that we're not really meant to wake up, but there are always those that do slip through the net of the world of illusions and figure out what's really going on...but it's like a death for that person, it can be very painful, and not for the faint of heart that's for sure.


Nice talking to you bye the way...it's nice to get feedback from another fellow awaken one.

Atla
Posts: 1231
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:27 am

Re: Proof that all is ONENESS

Post by Atla » Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:25 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:02 pm
Atla wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:26 pm

Well.. this is where I think that some have perverted nondualism too much, with all that emptiness nonsense. Sure, the "content" of the story is illusory, it is just the "simulation" of reality, a narrative that is running in your head. But that doesn't mean that the simulation itself doesn't exist. The simulation/story/narrative, or however we want to call it, is an actual happening in the head.
Lets be clear here, at no point have I ever suggested the world does not exist, it does, it is what it is, but the assumed ''separate enity'' only sees the world not as it actually is..but how that ''separate entity'' is according to their world view and conditioning. Non-duality does not deny the external world. It's just saying that no one is living it, and that it's just living itself.
Atla wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:26 pm
So the idea that no person exists, is just a horrible perversion of nondualism. Sure the person is illusory and our "true nature" is: being identical and one and the same with reality itself, we are it / tat tvam asi. BUT the "individual person" is also something in the head, it's psychological, it's neuroscientific and so on, and pretty much necessary for everyday life.
Yes, it's quite shocking to realise the person is just a conceptual idea and that their real identity is not-a-thing...most would run away in fear of that, while others embrace it and are quite relieved to hear it.
Atla wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:26 pm
Consider this:

First mountains are mountains; then mountains are not mountains, they are / aren't whatever the heck; and finally mountains are mountains again.

Well the same should go for the individual self, once we've understood nondualism, we can finally return to being "this guy here".
I agree, when we realise what is really going on, life can seem so much sweeter actually. We become fearless so to speak.
Atla wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:26 pm
Many nondualists seem to explain the individual self away as much as possible, which is in my opinion the main reason why most people in the West find nondualism rather repulsive. Because once you get into that state of mind, how the hell are you supposed to function in society.
I agree, the most hardest part about awakening is having to function in society, it's really hard dealing with all the different egos, and knowing there is no one being that ego, it like we have to pretend to be someone just so we fit in ... sometimes, I wish I'd never awakened to the dream of separation because of how hard it is to live a normal life, once we awaken, we simply never return to the old way of being, we find that old self repulsive, it's so weird.. it's quite a lonely place to be as well because no one else seems to be able to fully understand us any more, it's very isolating, and I am beginning to believe that we're not really meant to wake up, but there are always those that do slip through the net of the world of illusions and figure out what's really going on...but it's like a death for that person, it can be very painful, and not for the faint of heart that's for sure.


Nice talking to you bye the way...it's nice to get feedback from another fellow awaken one.
I meant that I don't find the old self particularly repulsive. Yes the ego is an unnatural anomaly, but then awakening is like bringing this unnatural anomaly to the next level.

What I really find repulsive is that after some people awaken, they try to throw out what is left of the ego completely. I mean what good does that do? Sure it's all illusory, but so is everything else, so why not just keep some of the ego and buy into at again. Isn't that the best for everyday life? :) While also knowing deep down that this is sort of just roleplaying.

I see a person as far more than just a conceptual idea, even after awakening. All these things that I personally "am", really are in a way "happening" in my head. You can even see that stuff on an MRI scan for example.

So in my opinion, to make the West accept nondualism, this part about throwing out the individual self Buddhist-style needs some serious tweaking.

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