Self-awareness?

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bahman
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Self-awareness?

Post by bahman »

This is simple: We know that we don't have any sense that we could experience self directly. We however directly experience our actions and deduce that there is a being with self who performs the actions. How could we be sure that there is a self?
Beauty
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Re: Self-awareness?

Post by Beauty »

I, me, myself(my self) is my self. I know who and what I am. Who is my designation, talent, giftedness, education, achievement, accomplishment etcetera, and what is my temperaments, my habits, my wickedness if any, my goodness, my principles, my mistakes etcetera. I am pretty aware of who and what I am. All this is self, if it isn't, then who is that? If our Spirit is our true self, then we portray our Spirit through our who and what state/status.
ken
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Re: Self-awareness?

Post by ken »

Beauty wrote:I, me, myself(my self) is my self. I know who and what I am.
What is the answer?
ken
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Re: Self-awareness?

Post by ken »

bahman wrote:This is simple: We know that we don't have any sense that we could experience self directly.
Do not be so sure we do not have that sense.

If I can experience self directly, then any person can.

I am fully self-aware and do experience self directly.
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bahman
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Re: Self-awareness?

Post by bahman »

ken wrote:
bahman wrote: This is simple: We know that we don't have any sense that we could experience self directly.
Do not be so sure we do not have that sense.

If I can experience self directly, then any person can.

I am fully self-aware and do experience self directly.
First, you need to tell me what is that sense that make you able to experience your self. Second, what you experience could be a sense of self if there is any, so you cannot be sure that you have really a self. Moreover, it is absurd that brain create a self as a mental state and then experience that mental state since sense of self as a mental state suffices.
ken
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Re: Self-awareness?

Post by ken »

bahman wrote:
ken wrote:
bahman wrote: This is simple: We know that we don't have any sense that we could experience self directly.
Do not be so sure we do not have that sense.

If I can experience self directly, then any person can.

I am fully self-aware and do experience self directly.
First, you need to tell me what is that sense that make you able to experience your self.
Why do I 'need' to?

To you, could there be a sense that could make Me able to experience My self?
bahman wrote:Second, what you experience could be a sense of self if there is any, so you cannot be sure that you have really a self.
Is this sentence right?
bahman wrote:Moreover, it is absurd that brain create a self as a mental state and then experience that mental state since sense of self as a mental state suffices.
Who suggets/says it happens that way?
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bahman
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Re: Self-awareness?

Post by bahman »

ken wrote:
bahman wrote: First, you need to tell me what is that sense that make you able to experience your self.
Why do I 'need' to?

To you, could there be a sense that could make Me able to experience My self?
You said "Do not be so sure we do not have that sense.". I am sure that that sense is not among the five senses. Do you agree? This means that we have an extra sense specialized to experience self. Is that what you suggest?
ken wrote:
bahman wrote: Second, what you experience could be a sense of self if there is any, so you cannot be sure that you have really a self.
Is this sentence right?
Yes, that sentence is right. I am simply saying that what you experience is simply a sense of self. In simple word, your brain constructs a mental state, sense of self.
ken wrote:
bahman wrote:Moreover, it is absurd that brain create a self as a mental state and then experience that mental state since sense of self as a mental state suffices.
Who suggets/says it happens that way?
You don't have any other option at least within materialism/monism. Everything is matter in materialism framework which means that we don't have self within this framework so the self must be created by brain and then be experienced by brain. The story is same under dualism since you have a self and a body. Self cannot experience anything without body and body again grants five senses which each is specialised to experience specific thing but self.
Last edited by bahman on Sat Sep 24, 2016 2:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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bahman
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Re: Self-awareness?

Post by bahman »

Beauty wrote: I, me, myself(my self) is my self. I know who and what I am. Who is my designation, talent, giftedness, education, achievement, accomplishment etcetera, and what is my temperaments, my habits, my wickedness if any, my goodness, my principles, my mistakes etcetera. I am pretty aware of who and what I am. All this is self, if it isn't, then who is that? If our Spirit is our true self, then we portray our Spirit through our who and what state/status.
You need to explain how experiencing your self/spirit is possible under dualism. Our spirit cannot experience anything without body. Body however grants five senses which each of them specialise to experience something but self.
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HexHammer
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Re: Self-awareness?

Post by HexHammer »

bahman wrote:This is simple: We know that we don't have any sense that we could experience self directly. We however directly experience our actions and deduce that there is a being with self who performs the actions. How could we be sure that there is a self?
This is pure nonsense and babble as usual, go study for once, instead of parrot what other clueless cozy chatters has babbled!
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bahman
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Re: Self-awareness?

Post by bahman »

HexHammer wrote:
bahman wrote: This is simple: We know that we don't have any sense that we could experience self directly. We however directly experience our actions and deduce that there is a being with self who performs the actions. How could we be sure that there is a self?
This is pure nonsense and babble as usual, go study for once, instead of parrot what other clueless cozy chatters has babbled!
Which part is nonsense? You need to provide a reason at least.
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HexHammer
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Re: Self-awareness?

Post by HexHammer »

bahman wrote:
HexHammer wrote:
bahman wrote: This is simple: We know that we don't have any sense that we could experience self directly. We however directly experience our actions and deduce that there is a being with self who performs the actions. How could we be sure that there is a self?
This is pure nonsense and babble as usual, go study for once, instead of parrot what other clueless cozy chatters has babbled!
Which part is nonsense? You need to provide a reason at least.
You are dead wrong, people are not aware that they may not have any sense of experiencing self directly, as they don't care about it.
Besides those who care, does know that they have a sense that can experience self directly, that's why we see elephants, dolphins, pigs etc as highly intelligent beings as they have a self awareness when they see themselves in the mirror.

We don't deduce anything from a being who performs the action ..that's a huge delusion you have.

We can be sure there's a self, because of intellect, those who can't lacks that intellect and either has a low function or nonfunction in that area of the brain.

Dear bahman, you need very very simple things spelled out ..as always, you don't comprehend very very simple science, but has a very very delusional approach to it. What you ALWAYS say is pure nonsense and babble!
Beauty
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Re: Self-awareness?

Post by Beauty »

bahman wrote:This is simple: We know that we don't have any sense that we could experience self directly. We however directly experience our actions and deduce that there is a being with self who performs the actions. How could we be sure that there is a self?
Our self I believe is our Spirit and our Spirit which we don't even see can only be sensed by the spiritual sense, spiritually. We do experience our thinking/action as also the consequences and understand that there is a being who does so which is us in body and in spirit. I think in bodyform the Spirit is limitized, but free Spirit if holy is the vastness of God, is God. "Holy Spirit is God." "Know ye not that ye are all Gods, and the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?" We are all fallen Gods, we must rise. The way is no sinning, pay the past dues due, and go back to Heaven. So in all, our true self is God, but only when we begin to live in truth and no lies, cheating, deceit, malpractice nor scam is in us. To distinguish Jesus from others then, Jesus was a fallen Almighty God, others here are fallen Gods. Almighties in Heaven rule the Kingdom - the world.
ken
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Re: Self-awareness?

Post by ken »

bahman wrote:
ken wrote:
bahman wrote: First, you need to tell me what is that sense that make you able to experience your self.
Why do I 'need' to?

To you, could there be a sense that could make Me able to experience My self?
You said "Do not be so sure we do not have that sense.". I am sure that that sense is not among the five senses. Do you agree?
Yes.
bahman wrote:This means that we have an extra sense specialized to experience self. Is that what you suggest?
Yes, exactly.
bahman wrote:
ken wrote:
bahman wrote: Second, what you experience could be a sense of self if there is any, so you cannot be sure that you have really a self.
Is this sentence right?
Yes, that sentence is right. I am simply saying that what you experience is simply a sense of self. In simple word, your brain constructs a mental state, sense of self.
If you believe your brain constructs a mental state, sense of self, then what has that got to do with self-awareness? Or, are you trying to explain why most people are not yet fully self-aware?

And, you also say, a personcannot be sure that they have really a self", right? If that is what you believe, then really is there any use discussing this?

The obvious fact that constructing a "self" from the brain itself will NOT reveal anything about who/what I actually am.
bahman wrote:
ken wrote:
bahman wrote:Moreover, it is absurd that brain create a self as a mental state and then experience that mental state since sense of self as a mental state suffices.
Who suggets/says it happens that way?
You don't have any other option at least within materialism/monism. Everything is matter in materialism framework which means that we don't have self within this framework so the self must be created by brain and then be experienced by brain.
Why would any sane person follow any one form of ism?

In fact why do people read up on things and/or follow one particular way of thinking in order to try to understand the self?
The hilarious nature of this is fully understood when who/what I actually am is fully understood.
bahman wrote:The story is same under dualism since you have a self and a body.
Until you know what self is you would be wrong to assume 'you' have a self and a body.
bahman wrote:Self cannot experience anything without body and body again grants five senses which each is specialised to experience specific thing but self.
Thus the reason not to assume anything based on what has come through from the five senses.
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bahman
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Re: Self-awareness?

Post by bahman »

HexHammer wrote: You are dead wrong, people are not aware that they may not have any sense of experiencing self directly, as they don't care about it.
Besides those who care, does know that they have a sense that can experience self directly, that's why we see elephants, dolphins, pigs etc as highly intelligent beings as they have a self awareness when they see themselves in the mirror.
What is that sense that allows us to experience our selves directly. Of course the sense of sight is not that sense since it can only show what you see and self is not something which we can see.
HexHammer wrote: We don't deduce anything from a being who performs the action ..that's a huge delusion you have.
You deduce when you go in front of a mirror. You deduce when you perform any action.
HexHammer wrote: We can be sure there's a self, because of intellect, those who can't lacks that intellect and either has a low function or nonfunction in that area of the brain.
Intellect has nothing to do with self when it come to experiencing self.
HexHammer wrote: Dear bahman, you need very very simple things spelled out ..as always, you don't comprehend very very simple science, but has a very very delusional approach to it. What you ALWAYS say is pure nonsense and babble!
So as you see, I am not dead wrong.
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bahman
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Re: Self-awareness?

Post by bahman »

Beauty wrote:
bahman wrote: This is simple: We know that we don't have any sense that we could experience self directly. We however directly experience our actions and deduce that there is a being with self who performs the actions. How could we be sure that there is a self?
Our self I believe is our Spirit and our Spirit which we don't even see can only be sensed by the spiritual sense, spiritually. We do experience our thinking/action as also the consequences and understand that there is a being who does so which is us in body and in spirit. I think in bodyform the Spirit is limitized, but free Spirit if holy is the vastness of God, is God. "Holy Spirit is God." "Know ye not that ye are all Gods, and the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?" We are all fallen Gods, we must rise. The way is no sinning, pay the past dues due, and go back to Heaven. So in all, our true self is God, but only when we begin to live in truth and no lies, cheating, deceit, malpractice nor scam is in us. To distinguish Jesus from others then, Jesus was a fallen Almighty God, others here are fallen Gods. Almighties in Heaven rule the Kingdom - the world.
I have never heard of spiritual sense.
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