''Something'' and ''Nothing'' are the same ONE

So what's really going on?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

User avatar
Dontaskme
Posts: 4030
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm

Re: ''Something'' and ''Nothing'' are the same ONE

Post by Dontaskme » Wed Sep 21, 2016 3:30 pm

Beauty wrote:Existence non-existence there, but not at the same point in time is a reality not just a thought. Time depends on development, things happening, but when I am resting even then time is flowing. So time is forever existent and it would have come up with nothing, being a part of that, but that being nothing it would not be there, so time would have come up in the process of something coming up.
But time is just a thought arising now from no thing. Thoughts are energetical. Thoughts don't belong to any thing. Energy is not a thing. Everything and Nothing is a happening now to no one...as this one unitary energetical dance of which thought is an integral part.

What comes up is a thought. From no thing, as no thing, through no thing, appearing and disappearing endlessly in no thing.

Nothing can be known or experienced of what energy actually is, because the very knowing and experiencing of reality is made up of the same energy that is attempting to describe or make distinctions about reality. Everything is basically made of the thing it's in, which is not a thing, except as conceptual fiction arising as thought within it.

Reality IS, but it's not happening to a thing. The idea that reality is happening to a some thing..ie: a 'me' is a thought. It's a mental construction. Isness is..but it's not a thing. Things are thoughts ..thought is not a thing. So the whole idea of things existing is a fiction arising as thought within it.

Okay so we can say when there is no thought present there's just Isness without a label. And when thought is present Isness is something. But only thought makes that so, but that's not what reality actually is. In truth there is no actual reality.
For example: Trees are, but trees are not really trees, they're just empty images. Zoom into any object and you reach the great emptiness from which all images are a mere projection having a temporal appearance.

But what I'm trying to say is that the reality prior to thought and the reality born of thought are the same reality since thoughts are just phantom imaginings. The're just energy playing trickless tricks.
Beauty wrote:I believe that we all came up (our spirit) from nothing. When we make things we start from scratch and then we have something, even though the constituent elements have always been there, for energy cannot be created nor destroyed on our world earth. We coming up from nothing then would defy the law of conservation of energy as we would emerge from nothing into becoming something, so we would emerge outside of this world of ours, wherein energy can be created and destroyed. If energy could not be created nor destroyed, how would be come from nothing into being something? So that would have to be there that conservation of energy is not there.
Nothing becomes...except as a fictional story. There's just Everything which is Nothing.

Becoming is a mentally constructed activity, a wavy movement within perfect stillness....It's a wave arising out of the ocean..a movement from latent to kinetic energy. But when too much energy is being produced that over use forces the energy back to it's latent state which is it's natural resting state. But the resting state is unstable and so there is a desire for movement. That two and fro scenario is what creates the flow of life in motion. But no thing is actually moving anywhere for it is everywhere at once.
Beauty wrote: Now, because conservation of energy is not there in the world above, that is why to be good becomes all the more important, or the wicked spirits could just annihilate us into nothing. So then we understand this whole issue of - be a good girl, be a good boy as scripture suggests. And we also understand the issue of "fallen" and "risen." If the law prevalent in the world above was not there, all the good spirits would be gone, only the wicked would remain. But the law being there and being - your action - your consequence - your fate, then justice is done to everyone. Spirit is energy. Remember spirited?
I don't buy into all this spirit knowledge... I consider all knowledge to be conceptual story that has no actually reality.So comments like this are irrelevant to this particular discussion.
Beauty wrote:Have you ever considered the fact that nothing existing, then prior to that if something's not there, how would you define it? You couldn't. As such, while nothing is there, something's not there and vice-versa. Also, spirit's coming would also be as quarks - spiritual quarks showing spiritual properties. Also, something and nothing both are absolutes and both are opposites so both cannot exist at the same time except as subsets or in the abstract in the sense that pen, here today gone tomorrow and yet its elements there in the environment, thereby satisfying that fact that we coming from nothing, then we are contained in nothing, and we going into nothing, then nothing coming from us, so nothing is contained in us.
That which appears to make a distinction between opposites ie: something and nothing does not exist except as imagined. What is here now is not imagined. That which knows what is here now is imagined.

Beauty
Posts: 284
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:08 pm

Re: ''Something'' and ''Nothing'' are the same ONE

Post by Beauty » Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:07 pm

Dontaskme, I need to ask you something first, because I need clarification. What exactly do you mean when you say, no thing? Could you please elaborate upon that for me first? Thank you.

User avatar
Dontaskme
Posts: 4030
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm

Re: ''Something'' and ''Nothing'' are the same ONE

Post by Dontaskme » Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:22 pm

Beauty wrote:Dontaskme, I need to ask you something first, because I need clarification. What exactly do you mean when you say, no thing? Could you please elaborate upon that for me first? Thank you.
Okay no problem, but this always takes a lot of explaining...so sorry for the long posts.

'No thing' simply means 'emptiness' - - emptiness is not a thing.

Things are thoughts/concepts... ''thoughts and concepts'' are empty. They are inseparable from the emptiness in which they arise.
''Form is emptiness, emptiness is form. ''

When seeing is looking at an object, it is not seeing a thing, simply because things are empty, and there is no one seeing except the seeing itself which is one. This does not mean that seeing is blind. The world exists in all it's technicolor glory. Even though colour is made of nothing but invisible light. In reality there is no such thing as colour - there is only invisible light appearing as colour. There is no occupant of the light, It simple IS self-shining all alone, all one.

The seeing is inseparable from the things seen. The 'seeing' is without identity or label. The 'seen' is with identity and label as projected else nothing is known. The known is thought. Thoughts are empty, they are made of the same emptiness they are appearing in. In reality No things have ever been seen because the seer cannot be seen. Things are only 'KNOWN' as concepts appearing IN this immediate SEEING.
Therefore all 'known things' are fictions.

A known object as seen gives birth to an unknown seerless seer. - In the same moment - An unknown seerless seer gives birth to the known object. This dynamic must exist in the same instant simultaneously. Seerless seer is just another word for consciousness.

No object can be known without the thought about it which is dependant upon consciousness the knower of the object. The object cannot know the consciousness because it is it. Consciousness can exist without an object/thought. But an objective thought cannot exist without a consciousness.

The seer is inseparable from the seen, so both seer and seen are emptiness only appearing as fullness... phenomena is emptiness and fullness at the same time as known in the appearance. Which is the unknown known.

1) All persons and things are dependent upon their causes and upon their parts and cannot exist independently of them. They are dependent-arisings; consequently they are empty of inherent existence. Because all phenomena are dependent-arisings, they have a nature of emptiness.
2) Conversely; as beings and things have no independent or inherent nature, they must rely on other factors. They must be dependent-arisings.
3) The emptiness of forms is not separate from forms. Forms themselves, which are produced and disintegrate due to the presence of conditions, are by their own nature empty of inherent existence.
4) This absence of inherent existence is their final reality; their mode of abiding, their final mode of being.
5) In sum, the production and disintegration, increase and decrease, and so forth of forms are possible because forms are empty of self-powered existence. Phenomena such as forms are said to dawn from within the sphere of the nature of emptiness.

Beauty
Posts: 284
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:08 pm

Re: ''Something'' and ''Nothing'' are the same ONE

Post by Beauty » Fri Sep 23, 2016 4:30 am

Dontaskme, I have come to understand from your philosophy that the 'no thing' you talk about means emptiness. You say, "All persons and things are dependent upon their causes and upon their parts and cannot exist independently of them. They are dependent-arisings; consequently they are empty of inherent existence. Because all phenomena are dependent-arisings, they have a nature of emptiness."

I want to say this - the cause and effect can be simultaneous, in which case there is no time lag or distance between the two. For example: I touch my nose, it's touched immediately, even in so much as the effort made you may argue as the initial cause, but even that is simultaneously in effect or the effort would not be there - in effect! This is how I believe our life and world happened to be, which is precisely why we cannot understand the creator because it is one with the created - the cause being the effect itself. Moreover, even if we came from emptiness, but now we are not that, because its effect is somethingness, just like the effect of white light is colour, all the seven colours - VIBGYOR - violet, indigo, green, yellow, orange, red. You cannot say that colour is not colour but is white light, for you have to keep definitions as such, as they are under a certain context, the context being that when white light is light, colour is colour. So, when emptiness is emptiness, somethingness is somethingness, and both are concrete definitions in the context they are in. But you seem to say that somethingness in its context is emptiness which it is not. You cannot mix definitions for they are sitting in a certain context which cannot be taken away as the context is all important as to a certain definition. So then, I'm gathering this discussion comes to an end, as definitions are under a certain context and because the context is there, that definition is there and no other can be. As for the cause being the effect itself - I know you don't believe much in scripture, but where cause and effect are simultaneous it is due to our holy nature - wish fulfillment. To the extent holy nature is not so holy, we see a distance between cause and effect as much as the unholiness. It is said, God has everything, the reason is because God is holy, and so God wishes, and immediately wish-fulfillment is there. You say that all this somethingness is nothingness when in the context today it is not that, then I can also say that the nothingness you talk about is somethingness due to what is here today and nothingness comes from that. So then definitions being under a certain context must stay as such.

User avatar
Dontaskme
Posts: 4030
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm

Re: ''Something'' and ''Nothing'' are the same ONE

Post by Dontaskme » Fri Sep 23, 2016 8:42 am

Beauty wrote: So, when emptiness is emptiness, somethingness is somethingness, and both are concrete definitions in the context they are in. But you seem to say that somethingness in its context is emptiness which it is not. You cannot mix definitions for they are sitting in a certain context which cannot be taken away as the context is all important as to a certain definition.
In the story of 'I' just about everything and anything can appear by definition. A story is just an appearance in oneness, here today gone tomorrow. I'm talking about that which stays and doesn't go away. That is emptiness.

Of course the concept emptiness is not the same as somethingness by definition.In the same sense an apple is not an orange. An apple can never be an orange or vice versa. But the point I'm trying to make is all concepts are imagined, they are not real. No one has ever seen a concept. What is a concept but a thought. Has any one seen a thought?


Ordinarily, for the sake of human communication, and the desire to understand there is the consensus belief that such a thing as an orange and an apple do exist because their labels say they do. But where and who is the believer? and where is the exact location of the concept, and don't forget, the concept is the definition...so what is that, what, where is the definition, and who is making it?

Is it 'me' ..is it 'god' it is the 'mind'...what/who/where is 'me' what/who/where is 'god' what/who/where is 'mind' ?? < < more concepts.

Who/what is mixing definitions here.?..definition is a concept too. Look around ..where is the definition, is it inside of you, is it outside of you, is it in Africa, America, or is it hiding under the kitchen sink cupboard...where is a definition...aka a concept?

You can end the discussion here if you want beauty. But I'm quite happy to discuss this forever while it's possible to do so. I'm just sitting around here playing with thoughts about what exactly is this thing that's just sitting around here until I'm not.
Beauty wrote: But you seem to say that somethingness in its context is emptiness which it is not. You cannot mix definitions for they are sitting in a certain context which cannot be taken away as the context is all important as to a certain definition. So then, I'm gathering this discussion comes to an end, as definitions are under a certain context and because the context is there, that definition is there and no other can be.
From the Sutras...

'' What is form? Form is within emptiness. Where then is emptiness? Emptiness is within form. Form and emptiness are therefore said to be non-dual. Form does not differ from emptiness means that they do not have differing characteristics.

Emptiness does not differ from form also indicates that emptiness and form do not have different characteristics. They are one. Emptiness contains form, and form contains emptiness. On the surface, two are seen, yet the actuality is one.

To discuss form, let us consider the example of a table. Put it in a certain empty place, and it occupies the emptiness of that place so that the emptiness no longer exists. Take the table away and the emptiness immediately reappears. The place is then empty. Before the table was taken away, did the emptiness exist? Yes, there was emptiness, but it was occupied by the form. The empty space certainly was not non-existent. Now, where there is emptiness, is there form? Just there lies the origin of form. That is the form which is emptiness ''

User avatar
Dontaskme
Posts: 4030
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm

Re: ''Something'' and ''Nothing'' are the same ONE

Post by Dontaskme » Fri Sep 23, 2016 9:01 am

Continued ...

A person is not earth, not water,
Not fire, not wind, not space,
Not consciousness, and not all of them.
What person is there other than these?


What is form ?

From the Sutras..
''The body is characterized as a form, while the mind is categorized as emptiness. Mind is emptiness; the attainment of the principle of true emptiness is mind. Since the body is a form-from what does it come into existence? It is composed of earth, water, fire, and wind, the four great elements, which come together and become a form-body. Further, there is a place to which each of the four great elements returns.''

You are that place, and it's here now always.

You are not in that place because you were never out of it.
And you cannot be out of it because you were never in it.

You ARE it.

There's only one place. And that's here now. This is it. Where ever you go there you are.

You are what you are doing right now.

Beauty
Posts: 284
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:08 pm

Re: ''Something'' and ''Nothing'' are the same ONE

Post by Beauty » Fri Sep 23, 2016 10:41 am

Dontaskme you say, I'm just sitting around here playing with thoughts about what exactly is this thing that's just sitting around here until I'm not.

Let me explain why you are here, who you are, where you are and what you are. It goes as follows:
Earth is like a prison but let's call it exile. In actuality it is Hell. We are all from Heaven due to sinning in thinking there. Interference in another's life with wicked pleasure as intent behind it, is wickedness, and is classified sin. Or in other words wickedness in thinking and/or wickedness in action is sin. Sin brings us down from Heaven into Hell. The sinful dues upon all of us paid, we are back in Heaven. It is quite apparent that if we are wicked here again, then we return to Hell again with a birth & death cycle where life is to learn, not to sin. "For the wages of sin is death." "Know ye not that ye are all Gods, and the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?" We are in Hell. We are classified Devils while we are in Hell, even though we may be morally good now, but due to past sinful dues upon all of us to pay for, we are called Devils in Hell. When we go to Heaven, then we are classified Gods in Heaven. Jesus was a fallen Almighty God, others are fallen Gods here in Hell. "Jesus is risen," we must rise too. "The way" - the way to Heaven, is holiness, no wickedness in thinking and no wickedness in action, or we can also say, all sinful dues paid, we are out of prison/exile/Hell, and back home into Heaven from where we originally are. "I am the way and the truth and the life." The way to Heaven is truth - no wickedness. All sinful dues paid, we have life - eternal life - life in Heaven.

So Dontaskme, you are not just sitting around here on earth but paying your respected dues as we all are too, those paid, we get entry back into Heaven. On the rest, I will comment later.

User avatar
Dontaskme
Posts: 4030
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm

Re: ''Something'' and ''Nothing'' are the same ONE

Post by Dontaskme » Fri Sep 23, 2016 12:25 pm

Beauty wrote:Dontaskme you say, I'm just sitting around here playing with thoughts about what exactly is this thing that's just sitting around here until I'm not.

Let me explain why you are here, who you are, where you are and what you are. It goes as follows:
Earth is like a prison but let's call it exile. In actuality it is Hell. We are all from Heaven due to sinning in thinking there. Interference in another's life with wicked pleasure as intent behind it, is wickedness, and is classified sin. Or in other words wickedness in thinking and/or wickedness in action is sin. Sin brings us down from Heaven into Hell. The sinful dues upon all of us paid, we are back in Heaven. It is quite apparent that if we are wicked here again, then we return to Hell again with a birth & death cycle where life is to learn, not to sin. "For the wages of sin is death." "Know ye not that ye are all Gods, and the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?" We are in Hell. We are classified Devils while we are in Hell, even though we may be morally good now, but due to past sinful dues upon all of us to pay for, we are called Devils in Hell. When we go to Heaven, then we are classified Gods in Heaven. Jesus was a fallen Almighty God, others are fallen Gods here in Hell. "Jesus is risen," we must rise too. "The way" - the way to Heaven, is holiness, no wickedness in thinking and no wickedness in action, or we can also say, all sinful dues paid, we are out of prison/exile/Hell, and back home into Heaven from where we originally are. "I am the way and the truth and the life." The way to Heaven is truth - no wickedness. All sinful dues paid, we have life - eternal life - life in Heaven.

So Dontaskme, you are not just sitting around here on earth but paying your respected dues as we all are too, those paid, we get entry back into Heaven. On the rest, I will comment later.

Thanks for the beautiful story beauty...but it's a fiction we make up in order to amuse ourselves while were sitting around here in nowhere.

I'll tell you my story now..it goes as follows:

Image

Notice how Jesus leaves life...meaning, he had to die in order for life to live. Meaning there is no person living life, there's just life living itself. How noble of Jesus to consider such a kind act as to leave life to live itself alone by itself without him. How self less was that...Now, he can just sit back relax, eat his popcorn and enjoy the show without getting all caught up in the drama...after all, it's not like he's actually gone any where, there's nowhere to go but here. And he knew this and was why he wasn't afraid to die that horrible suffering death...he knew it wasn't real and that he'd be back... so I guess he thought it seemed like his ordeal was kinda worth the minor inconvenience. Such is a hero.
Beauty wrote:So Dontaskme, you are not just sitting around here on earth but paying your respected dues as we all are too, those paid, we get entry back into Heaven.
Jesus was the last action hero. He died not to wipe away all sin, but as a self-less metaphor of oneness. There are no dues to be paid to a fictional character. Jesus is a metaphor for pure infinite awareness expressing itself in which ever way it appears whether it is good or evil, right or wrong, will make no difference to awareness. For it is all allowing love. Had he have been a real character, then we'd all better be extremely sinful else his sacrifice would have been a complete waste of time, and would have been all in vain....now why would he have put himself through such an unnecessary suffering? unless he believed in fictional stories instead of what's actually happening, to no one ?

We never left heaven except in the dream of separation. Heaven is right here now where it's always been. Hell is here too. They are the same place. Heaven is non identified self. Hell is identification with self. You can be which one you want, it's your prerogative. We are in the world but not of it. We are both the dreamer and the dream simultaneously.

Beauty
Posts: 284
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:08 pm

Re: ''Something'' and ''Nothing'' are the same ONE

Post by Beauty » Fri Sep 23, 2016 1:27 pm

Dontaskme, so if Heaven and Hell both are here on earth, then who made the earth, the sun, the moon, the empty space, the seed, the information coded in the seed for the plant to sprout, the dark, the concept of perception, feeling, thinking, understanding, colour etcetera? Not some higher power sitting in Heaven? Of course it would be that. And mind you no one in this world is stupid as to the article I wrote above on enlightenment - truth. So no matter what you say, I know I am right, for it is the Hell story. Now the Heaven story is still to be out yet by me, which is to say - how, why, when etcetera are we there in the Cosmos itself as also why, when, how the Cosmos is there itself. The Cosmos/World has Heaven and Hell. By the way, I have come to the understanding that if you don't agree with what I wrote in my post before this post, then there is no arguing/discussing/debate with you, because it is pointless, as I happen to have explained Jesus/Scripture very well. For years I have been writing on enlightenment by the way and by now earth must sit pretty enlightened.

User avatar
Dontaskme
Posts: 4030
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm

Re: ''Something'' and ''Nothing'' are the same ONE

Post by Dontaskme » Fri Sep 23, 2016 3:51 pm

Beauty wrote: By the way, I have come to the understanding that if you don't agree with what I wrote in my post before this post, then there is no arguing/discussing/debate with you, because it is pointless, as I happen to have explained Jesus/Scripture very well. For years I have been writing on enlightenment by the way and by now earth must sit pretty enlightened.
Life is enlightenment. It does not depend on a humans perspective to validate that it is. Life has no concept of things such as bible or koran scriptures existing, those are human inventions, they are made-up stories drawn from human imagination.

Paintings are drawn from the same imagination. The cosmos and all that it contains including human imagination are natures art work, the artist is not in the picture, the picture is in the artist. But the picture is all that can be known. The artist can never be known. There is nothing more to it than that. No one knows who the artist is, no one can grasp this, no one can own it because it doesn't belong to anyone, this is boundlessly free without beginning or end flowing in and out of existence forever.....and the 'we' are a part of this unknowable mystery in which we have our being. No one is being a being, there is only beingness.

Can we handle that? ..probably not and is why we make up just about any story we can imagine to fill the void.
I don't actually know what you want from me except to say you want me to agree with you, to validate your story.But you won't get anything from me. I don't know anything, except the stuff I make up. I don't need to know, I am the known. I'm here, I'm alive. I'm life.No one has ever been alive before so how is that one ever to know what or who or why life is except that it is?

Language appears to effect the physical meat of the body in that words appear to be sourced in this body, and when they are believed, they appear to hold a meaning in the painting of the sounds they make, but it's just like any other painting, it's a fiction. When birds are singing their song, they are not making up some story about a higher power sitting in Heaven, they're just doing what's comes naturally and spontaneously, they have no concept of such ideas. It's the same when we use language, all we're doing is singing our song for no other reason or purpose. We're the same as a chirping bird or a barking dog, no one is listening, no one is watching, there's just life doing it's dance, it's a happening. To believe in a word as being a literal reality is wishful thinking, it's like living in a fantasy land of make-belief. Taking words as having literal meaning is like believing that the character Cinderella has a biological father.

If you want to make up stories about nothingness in order this unavoidable unknowing void is filled then go ahead, that's exactly what appears to be happening but it is not happening to you... it's life doing you...But what ever you believe about reality, is not going to change anything, life in all it's enlightened clarity is not going to be affected by any of our stories about it. Only the stories change, reality does not.

Beauty
Posts: 284
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:08 pm

Re: ''Something'' and ''Nothing'' are the same ONE

Post by Beauty » Fri Sep 23, 2016 4:39 pm

Dontaskme,
Regarding the Sutras, it seems the Sutras are saying that emptiness and form is the same thing - emptiness is form and form is emptiness.

But then, isn't emptiness also something - a kind of form - formation? Then form in emptiness, why do we wonder about that when emptiness itself is something already there - some form - form. So then, do we not have form, and that form being emptiness, we also have form in that emptiness, so we have form inside form. Also, the emptiness being something, we see something in something. So what am I saying, I am saying that emptiness is form, but how is form emptiness? In the emptiness we have everything, since it is in emptiness, the everything would be separate from that emptiness and so could not be everything unless emptiness is also in everything, which it is there, and so in this way emptiness contains everything and everything has emptiness in it too. But emptiness being something, then this Cosmos' beginning is from something not nothing, and even if it was from nothing, even nothing is something, or what am I talking about when I say nothing. When I say nothing, I don't mean emptiness for emptiness is a void contained in space, so it is something, whereas nothing is simply nothing. So what is space? It is something and it contains emptiness and forms(things and life). Space has dimensions. Maybe there is something like the nth dimension that we do not understand, for we would be like two dimensional paper in front of the three dimensional box.

User avatar
Dontaskme
Posts: 4030
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm

Re: ''Something'' and ''Nothing'' are the same ONE

Post by Dontaskme » Fri Sep 23, 2016 7:13 pm

Beauty wrote:Dontaskme,
Regarding the Sutras, it seems the Sutras are saying that emptiness and form is the same thing - emptiness is form and form is emptiness.

But then, isn't emptiness also something - a kind of form - formation? Then form in emptiness, why do we wonder about that when emptiness itself is something already there - some form - form. So then, do we not have form, and that form being emptiness, we also have form in that emptiness, so we have form inside form. Also, the emptiness being something, we see something in something. So what am I saying, I am saying that emptiness is form, but how is form emptiness?
What's meant by form is emptiness is that, yes, there is form, there is something, but that something is not a fixed thing. It's no thing and yet is all things at the same time. Reality IS, but no one owns it, no one does it, no one is being it. It's just standing here empty&full at the same time empty of any entity. There is no special deity running the show. The word 'entity' is just an empty conceptual overlay.
Emptiness is not so difficult to understand when it is realised that there is no thing permanent in life. And that ego, the sense of 'me' is an illusion. But then some people may argue that we need an ego to survive, but this sense of self preservation is a programme that life has factored in as it ultimately seeks it's own survival by what ever mechanism there is. But that's not an ego. Lions and tigers do what ever it takes to survive the horrors of the jungle, but not because they have an ego to protect.Ultimately we suffer because we grasp after things thinking they are fixed, substantial, real and capable of being possessed by ego. It is only when we can see through this illusion and open ourselves to the reality of flux and fluidity that is ultimately ungraspable and inconceivable that we can relax into clarity, compassion and have the courage to live. That is what makes the effort to understand emptiness so worthwhile.

Beauty
Posts: 284
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:08 pm

Re: ''Something'' and ''Nothing'' are the same ONE

Post by Beauty » Sat Sep 24, 2016 1:36 am

Dontaskme,
That's a good one, Lions and tigers do what ever it takes to survive the horrors of the jungle. And I thought only I was the scared one! Anyways it has made me think and yes the lions and tigers would at least have to survive the snakes/cobras/pythons(something deadlier than them) in the jungle.

This is true, Ultimately we suffer because we grasp after things thinking they are fixed, substantial, real and capable of being possessed by ego. It is only when we can see through this illusion and open ourselves to the reality of flux and fluidity that is ultimately ungraspable and inconceivable that we can relax into clarity, compassion and have the courage to live.

As regards emptiness, this gigantic empty space around us being empty and that being its definition, it is satisfied in the emptiness, at times it would need fullness and it has us - things and life sparsely populated in it. But we are not emptiness, we are a kind of fullness, and that being our definition, only if our life is robust and full, then we are happy, but at times we need emptiness for our peace of mind, just like emptiness needs fullness at times for its peace of mind. So in the Cosmos we have emptiness and fullness and in the fullness we have emptiness. Writing on a piece of paper must not be more than 2/3rd of the page or we don't feel good with the page. So this vast emptiness by definition will sit vast, and we sit minute, and the emptiness in our life must sit minuter for we are a fullness. Only when the emptiness in our life sits larger than our fullness or as much or close, then we are not happy anymore.

Emptiness contained inside a box, it is contained in something. So this vastness, the vast emptiness must have a container too. Is that finite container or infinite? We don't know but it seems that it is infinite.

Now the emptiness and the no thing, as also the Reality, well definitely reality is not anyone's due but ours, but in so much as I make paper, I have made the paper's reality. By the way the me or the sense of me is not an illusion, or I would have to say that this vast emptiness is also an illusion, so in so much as the emptiness is real, we are real too. Also reality is not empty of any entity, for there's us and things and empty space. Reality being empty and full at the same time is true, but that empty and full has definition and is under context. By the way there's a difference in nothing and emptiness, they are not the same thing. Nothing means even emptiness is not there, due to emptiness being something, nothing means nothing is there. But nothing being there, who perceives it as nothing? Then if it is nothing, what's the person or thing perceiving for that could not be there. So then nothing would sit all alone, and it makes absolute sense, it being nothing. But then what are we talking about? Is it not something we are talking about, no, someone will say, we are talking about nothing, but then are they not talking about nothing(something)? So nothing is also something. So in my view there is no such thing as nothing in the sense of a physical reality, but as a spiritual/abstract/emotional/thinking/understanding etcetera kind of reality, nothing has definition. For example: I said a for apple, where is it? Or, an idea came to me, not written but in my mind only, where is it? In nothingness? Only as that, nothing has definition. Said words, thoughts, understanding etcetera exists in nothingness. Their existence would be in our Spirit of course, but we don't understand Spirit at this moment in time, thoroughly.

Beauty
Posts: 284
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:08 pm

Re: ''Something'' and ''Nothing'' are the same ONE

Post by Beauty » Sat Sep 24, 2016 4:08 am

As for the Spirit, Spirit is thinking, feeling, understanding, memory, database of information and where the thinking, feeling, understanding organ is there which to would be spiritual etcetera.

User avatar
Dontaskme
Posts: 4030
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm

Re: ''Something'' and ''Nothing'' are the same ONE

Post by Dontaskme » Sat Sep 24, 2016 10:32 am

Beauty wrote: By the way there's a difference in nothing and emptiness, they are not the same thing. Nothing means even emptiness is not there, due to emptiness being something, nothing means nothing is there. But nothing being there, who perceives it as nothing? Then if it is nothing, what's the person or thing perceiving for that could not be there.
Maybe I've confused you with the word 'nothing' when I actually mean 'no thing'.

I don't see a difference between nothing and emptiness. Words obviously mean different things to different people. I see 'emptiness' not as total nothingness, but as not a thing...I see it as no 'thing'
Reality IS, but it's not an actual literal 'thing' to be known. It's empty of an independent knower or knowing entity separate from the all of what is. No one knows where 'knowing' comes from, all knowledge is made-up, imagined by an unknowable energetic phenomena that appears as life from who knows where. We have no idea what thoughts are or where they are actually located, but we trust and believe in thoughts as if they were being experienced by a real entity, so it does appear that the thought is the entity simply because there is nothing else available for us to use in order to make sense of the reality we appear to be living. But no one knows what 'thought' actually is, or how the thinking mechanism works, same goes for emotions and all our other senses. We grasp hold of this invisible intangible phenomena and in doing so are seduced hook, line and sinker into thinking we have attained some sort of autonomy or identity. But it's all built from intangibles ie: 'senses' 'thoughts' and 'concepts'

There is 'perceiving' without doubt, but the perceiver cannot be perceived by what it perceives. So it's just one of those great mysteries that can never be solved by the mind. And it doesn't need to be solved because everything is already THIS UNKNOWING BEINGNESS happening quite perfectly all by itself. And it's not a THING...things arise and fall in it... things are temporary, while the no thing in which things appear is permanent. No thing is permanent. See how Every thing sums to zero/ No thing.
Beauty wrote:Their existence would be in our Spirit of course, but we don't understand Spirit at this moment in time, thoroughly.
We simply don't know what's going on with phenomena, not even the scientists know yet, but they appear to be getting fairly close now with the hadron collider ( cern)......we use words like 'spirit' 'awareness' 'emptiness' as ways to point to this uncertain unknowingness. We make- it all up as we go along simply because without concepts no thing IS...In the end everything we imagine we know about reality will sum to zero.

We are here and not here at the same time.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest