Universe can't be infinite.

So what's really going on?

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Atla
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Re: Universe can't be infinite.

Post by Atla » Sat Nov 17, 2018 8:11 am

Greylorn Ell wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:45 am
Effing pinheaded philosopher wanna-be's who've never studied enough theoretical math to know a wormhole from a butthole, pretending to have useful insights about any concept related to space. Boring, pretentious nits, the lot of you. And you, whatever your handle, are the stupidist of the lot.

Years ago, before being booted off, I found more intelligent people on the Catholic Answers Forum than I've ever found here. Did you clowns buy whatever passes in you for minds at an internet discount store?

Greylorn
This forum has almost no moderation, I think all the nutjobs who were banned from other philosophy forums, end up here. It's kinda a cesspool of insanity and it's getting worse.

Greylorn Ell
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Re: Universe can't be infinite.

Post by Greylorn Ell » Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:30 pm

Atla,
Are you a kindred spirit of some sort, or just one of the nits having a brief fit of coherency because your dope dealer added Elm leaves to your customary bag of weed? :)

If you are genuinely interested in exploring ideas, kindly point me to subjects you've engaged. Perhaps we can seriously explore mutual areas of interest.
G.

Greylorn Ell
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Location: SE Arizona

Re: Universe can't be infinite.

Post by Greylorn Ell » Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:40 pm

Luxin wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:39 am
Mind boggling. If space is curved, I guess a travelling god could (only theoretically) come back to where they started, which suggests the Universe might be elliptical. If that's so, is there something outside that theoretically elliptical thing that has material form but an abstract essence equating with a rock and it's speed of vibration?

Perhaps we're not meant to know the answer? Better to figure out how to be happy. We are Divine beings, but thinking about infinity -- infinity?? -- I can think of infinity in 'going around' like in the symbol for infinity, 8, but I can't picture infinity going 'straight out forever'. An ant in your house can't imagine your 'enormous hand of God' will terminate its existence either.

As I can't get my mind around 'infinite in one direction', I feel comfortable imagining the universe as a huge elliptical form, and am perhaps as comfortable as folks felt imagining the earth was flat. LOL

Thank you.
"Divine beings?" Are you a displaced fruitcake from a fundamentalist or new age forum? Why not return there and stop inflicting people with 3-digit IQ's with your religious twaddle?
Greylorn

Greylorn Ell
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Re: Universe can't be infinite.

Post by Greylorn Ell » Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:33 pm

JustaThought wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:58 pm
I think universe has no edge or we can say it’s infinite because if there was an edge or if it was finite, all the light or brightness cast by all those billions of stars should have collided to the edges of universe in all direction and reflect it back in the space in all direction, just like the nature of reflection of light in earth or simply in a room, which would make space bright as a daylight in earth. Some spots in space does not have to glow since there are many black holes 🕳 that consumes light and many other factors that we may yet not know of. But not all the corners in earth glow either since there are places where light may not reach due to the physical nature like inside of cave or something. But over all at a daytime it’s bright. Hence, I believe there’s no edge of universe in any direction.
You are completely ignorant of any physics, and should not discuss your opinions about physics or any related topic ever again. Go to one of the many forums that embrace the input of ignorant people. Or read some physics books. Incompetent people like you need a home. Is there a pig farmer who could give you a job suited to your education?

Make sure the pig farm does not try to enlighten its residents by playing the Science Channel in its sties.

Greylorn

Atla
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Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:27 am

Re: Universe can't be infinite.

Post by Atla » Sun Nov 18, 2018 11:12 pm

Greylorn Ell wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:30 pm
Atla,
Are you a kindred spirit of some sort, or just one of the nits having a brief fit of coherency because your dope dealer added Elm leaves to your customary bag of weed? :)

If you are genuinely interested in exploring ideas, kindly point me to subjects you've engaged. Perhaps we can seriously explore mutual areas of interest.
G.
Well I've kinda absorbed all scientific and a lot of non-scientific stuff I could find, on a shallow or not-so-shallow level, that can have anything to do with metaphysics. I'm trying to come up with the most likely unified pictures of reality I can think of. Been doing this for decades. So I can't really point to specific subjects.

I looked at some of your comments and found something I haven't heard of before though: Beon theory. Can't find a good summary on the internet about this theory, what is it about? Where should I look?

Edit: never mind, I did some more reading, I'll have to reject Beon theory as I have a much simpler explanation for consciousness.
Last edited by Atla on Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:24 am, edited 2 times in total.

AlexW
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Re: Universe can't be infinite.

Post by AlexW » Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:46 am

Discussing (with the aim of understanding) concepts like infinity from within a mindset that is built upon separation - that is based upon a belief in the universe being made up of a compilation of separate objects - makes as much sense as a screen door on a submarine (or maybe even less :-) )

Walker
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Re: Universe can't be infinite.

Post by Walker » Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:09 am

There's room for the senseless and all else in infinity.

After all, we are in the middle of a Dark Matter Hurricane, or maybe it's the edge we're in the middle of, and the edge of the middle is worse, like the edge of a hurricane eye.

TimeSeeker
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Re: Universe can't be infinite.

Post by TimeSeeker » Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:45 am

There are no infinities in physics. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renormalization

In fact, if your equation relies on infinities to work that's a great indicator that it's wrong. In some way.

Infinities are mathematical objects. They are tools that make our equations work (lucky us!). But they don't exist.

Any understanding of "infinity" is behaviouristic and only in the context of mathematics. We know how it behaves in equations and that's about it.

Walker
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Re: Universe can't be infinite.

Post by Walker » Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:45 pm

The fudge factors make everything fit.

https://www.universetoday.com/119363/ho ... gy-exists/

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bahman
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Re: Universe can't be infinite.

Post by bahman » Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:57 pm

David Handeye wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2015 8:42 pm
Hi everybody,

Consider universe as infinite. This means it has no beginning, no ending, no borders, no center. In every point you will be in it, you will have infinite points in front of you, infinite points behind you, infinite points below you, inifinite points above you, you will have inifinite points everywhere around you, so that you'll be the center of the universe. If you go on the Moon, you'll be in the same conditions, so that in an infinite universe there are infinite centers at any time, not none. But center can be only one, so infinite centers infinite universes. But infinite has neither beginning nor ending, so there can't be even two infinites, and universe can't be infinite.
Does a finite universe surrounded by another thing. That leads to infinite regress. Therefore the universe is infinite.

Greylorn Ell
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Re: Universe can't be infinite.

Post by Greylorn Ell » Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:32 am

Atla wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 11:12 pm
Greylorn Ell wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:30 pm
Atla,
Are you a kindred spirit of some sort, or just one of the nits having a brief fit of coherency because your dope dealer added Elm leaves to your customary bag of weed? :)

If you are genuinely interested in exploring ideas, kindly point me to subjects you've engaged. Perhaps we can seriously explore mutual areas of interest.
G.
Well I've kinda absorbed all scientific and a lot of non-scientific stuff I could find, on a shallow or not-so-shallow level, that can have anything to do with metaphysics. I'm trying to come up with the most likely unified pictures of reality I can think of. Been doing this for decades. So I can't really point to specific subjects.

I looked at some of your comments and found something I haven't heard of before though: Beon theory. Can't find a good summary on the internet about this theory, what is it about? Where should I look?

Edit: never mind, I did some more reading, I'll have to reject Beon theory as I have a much simpler explanation for consciousness.
Atla,
I appreciate your willingness to do a bit of research. To the best of my knowledge there is no core-level description of Beon Theory anywhere on the internet that you could access without help, so I'm naturally curious about what you found.

My personal opinion is that B.T. represents the simplest possible explanation for self-awareness that is non-religious and consistent with the known principles of physics, from which it was derived. But since I devised the theory, what else could I say?

Except, "What, please, is your simpler explanation?" We might develop a serious conversation before some moderator bans the thread.

Greylorn

Greylorn Ell
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Location: SE Arizona

Re: Universe can't be infinite.

Post by Greylorn Ell » Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:46 am

Walker wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:45 pm
The fudge factors make everything fit.

https://www.universetoday.com/119363/ho ... gy-exists/
The link you provided is about dark energy and has nothing whatsoever to do with fudge factors. Are you an idiot?

Greylorn Ell
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Location: SE Arizona

Re: Universe can't be infinite.

Post by Greylorn Ell » Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:49 am

Walker wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:09 am
There's room for the senseless and all else in infinity.

After all, we are in the middle of a Dark Matter Hurricane, or maybe it's the edge we're in the middle of, and the edge of the middle is worse, like the edge of a hurricane eye.
Walker,
WTF are you talking about? You sound like a religious pinhead. How much dope do you need before writing your meaningless drivel?
Greylorn

Greylorn Ell
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Location: SE Arizona

Re: Universe can't be infinite.

Post by Greylorn Ell » Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:58 am

TimeSeeker wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:45 am
There are no infinities in physics. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renormalization

In fact, if your equation relies on infinities to work that's a great indicator that it's wrong. In some way.

Infinities are mathematical objects. They are tools that make our equations work (lucky us!). But they don't exist.

Any understanding of "infinity" is behaviouristic and only in the context of mathematics. We know how it behaves in equations and that's about it.
Thanks for an intelligent post!

The renormalization piece brought my back to my first QM class, wherein I decided that the mathematics behind QM was complete BS. After taking a different career path, I might even have figured out why. Or, I just invented a different kind of bullshit.

Greylorn

Atla
Posts: 1378
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Re: Universe can't be infinite.

Post by Atla » Tue Nov 20, 2018 7:36 am

Greylorn Ell wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:32 am
Atla,
I appreciate your willingness to do a bit of research. To the best of my knowledge there is no core-level description of Beon Theory anywhere on the internet that you could access without help, so I'm naturally curious about what you found.

My personal opinion is that B.T. represents the simplest possible explanation for self-awareness that is non-religious and consistent with the known principles of physics, from which it was derived. But since I devised the theory, what else could I say?
I read something like: "beon" is something that gets integrated with the human brain, to achieve some level of consciousness. But maybe I misunderstood.
Except, "What, please, is your simpler explanation?" We might develop a serious conversation before some moderator bans the thread.

Greylorn
I found it to be impossible to describe in a nutshell, as it can be very difficult to understand. But I'll try.

I'm a "pure" nonmonistic nondualist, I'd say that it's a common essence shared between Advaita Vedanta, Buddhism, Taoism, Zen. Maybe the proper understanding of Advaita and Zen approach it the closest. I reject all ideas of actual separation or duality, and I pretty much reject Western philosophy since the Greeks, in this respect.

By "consciousness" we always mean at least two entirely different things. I'll call one of them phenomenal consciousness: the fact that there is experience in the first place. I'll call the other one the individual brain/mind: the part of reality inside the head. Western culture tends to mix these together, and also makes up substances like mental and material.

What Western culture doesn't understand is that phenomenal consciousness is the same as the physical world; they are identical, one and the same, the same thing said twice. There is just reality, we just hallucinate that they are two things. This view is simpler than panpsychism or neutral monism or whatever.

The individual I is in a way illusory, "deep down" technically "we" really are reality itself. As for what self-awareness is, that is addressed by studying the individual brain/mind. But nothing gets integrated with it, there is no need for such a complicated, probably dualistic idea.

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