Universe can't be infinite.

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hammock
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Re: Universe can't be infinite.

Post by hammock » Tue May 12, 2015 1:06 am

David Handeye wrote:Hi everybody, Consider universe as infinite. This means it has no beginning, no ending, no borders, no center. In every point you will be in it, you will have infinite points in front of you, infinite points behind you, infinite points below you, inifinite points above you, you will have inifinite points everywhere around you, so that you'll be the center of the universe. If you go on the Moon, you'll be in the same conditions, so that in an infinite universe there are infinite centers at any time, not none. But center can be only one, so infinite centers infinite universes. But infinite has neither beginning nor ending, so there can't be even two infinites, and universe can't be infinite.

infinite - adj. immeasurable.

immeasurable - adj. incapable of being measured; indefinitely extensive.

universe - n. cosmos; world.

An infinite universe apparently lacks a specific size, magnitude, quantity, etc. How it is immeasurable in that regard is left to those who claim it is an infinite universe. They might sport anything from "because it is continuously growing" to "it constantly fluctuates between higher and lower values or limitations" to "the edges curl into higher dimensions, singularities, nested crinkliness, etc". Which then becomes a matter of whether or not the fallout of their explanation / clarification results in a cosmos that still coincides with an ascription of being immeasurable or does not contradict that designation.

It does not seem quite fitting that any world which is vastly great but still completed / settled (not a continuing process of adding / subtracting units of _x_) and thus measurable in theory, if not practice, should elude the classification of finite. Supposedly this universe is not static or immutable or definite when it comes to measurement ("for yata, yata, yata reasons" --infinite universe advocates), if the infinite universe advocates are to have a case of it being immeasurable.

Greylorn Ell
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Re: Universe can't be infinite.

Post by Greylorn Ell » Tue May 12, 2015 5:28 am

hammock wrote: infinite - adj. immeasurable.

immeasurable - adj. incapable of being measured; indefinitely extensive.

universe - n. cosmos; world.

An infinite universe apparently lacks a specific size, magnitude, quantity, etc. How it is immeasurable in that regard is left to those who claim it is an infinite universe. They might sport anything from "because it is continuously growing" to "it constantly fluctuates between higher and lower values or limitations" to "the edges curl into higher dimensions, singularities, nested crinkliness, etc". Which then becomes a matter of whether or not the fallout of their explanation / clarification results in a cosmos that still coincides with an ascription of being immeasurable or does not contradict that designation.

It does not seem quite fitting that any world which is vastly great but still completed / settled (not a continuing process of adding / subtracting units of _x_) and thus measurable in theory, if not practice, should elude the classification of finite. Supposedly this universe is not static or immutable or definite when it comes to measurement ("for yata, yata, yata reasons" --infinite universe advocates), if the infinite universe advocates are to have a case of it being immeasurable.
Hammock,

Excellent points. Perhaps you appreciate the principles of finite mathematics.

Greylorn

Dalek Prime
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Re: Universe can't be infinite.

Post by Dalek Prime » Tue May 12, 2015 5:32 am

Big enough that we'll never see the end of it... either end. :wink:

JustaThought
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Re: Universe can't be infinite.

Post by JustaThought » Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:58 pm

I think universe has no edge or we can say it’s infinite because if there was an edge or if it was finite, all the light or brightness cast by all those billions of stars should have collided to the edges of universe in all direction and reflect it back in the space in all direction, just like the nature of reflection of light in earth or simply in a room, which would make space bright as a daylight in earth. Some spots in space does not have to glow since there are many black holes 🕳 that consumes light and many other factors that we may yet not know of. But not all the corners in earth glow either since there are places where light may not reach due to the physical nature like inside of cave or something. But over all at a daytime it’s bright. Hence, I believe there’s no edge of universe in any direction.

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Luxin
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Re: Universe can't be infinite.

Post by Luxin » Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:39 am

Mind boggling. If space is curved, I guess a travelling god could (only theoretically) come back to where they started, which suggests the Universe might be elliptical. If that's so, is there something outside that theoretically elliptical thing that has material form but an abstract essence equating with a rock and it's speed of vibration?

Perhaps we're not meant to know the answer? Better to figure out how to be happy. We are Divine beings, but thinking about infinity -- infinity?? -- I can think of infinity in 'going around' like in the symbol for infinity, 8, but I can't picture infinity going 'straight out forever'. An ant in your house can't imagine your 'enormous hand of God' will terminate its existence either.

As I can't get my mind around 'infinite in one direction', I feel comfortable imagining the universe as a huge elliptical form, and am perhaps as comfortable as folks felt imagining the earth was flat. LOL

Thank you.

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-1-
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Re: Universe can't be infinite.

Post by -1- » Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:52 am

David Handeye wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2015 8:42 pm
Hi everybody,

Consider universe as infinite. This means it has no beginning, no ending, no borders, no center. In every point you will be in it, you will have infinite points in front of you, infinite points behind you, infinite points below you, inifinite points above you, you will have inifinite points everywhere around you, so that you'll be the center of the universe. If you go on the Moon, you'll be in the same conditions, so that in an infinite universe there are infinite centers at any time, not none. But center can be only one, so infinite centers infinite universes. But infinite has neither beginning nor ending, so there can't be even two infinites, and universe can't be infinite.
Your logic breaks down when you declare "Centre can only be one". That is not true of infinitely extending objects (conceptual or real). Center can only be one for finite objects or concepts. You are transporting a specification for a quality from one form to another, where the transporting creates a dichotomy, a self-contradiction, precisely because the transporting is illegal.

Atla
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Re: Universe can't be infinite.

Post by Atla » Fri Nov 16, 2018 7:12 am

Luxin wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:39 am
Mind boggling. If space is curved, I guess a travelling god could (only theoretically) come back to where they started, which suggests the Universe might be elliptical. If that's so, is there something outside that theoretically elliptical thing that has material form but an abstract essence equating with a rock and it's speed of vibration?

Perhaps we're not meant to know the answer? Better to figure out how to be happy. We are Divine beings, but thinking about infinity -- infinity?? -- I can think of infinity in 'going around' like in the symbol for infinity, 8, but I can't picture infinity going 'straight out forever'. An ant in your house can't imagine your 'enormous hand of God' will terminate its existence either.

As I can't get my mind around 'infinite in one direction', I feel comfortable imagining the universe as a huge elliptical form, and am perhaps as comfortable as folks felt imagining the earth was flat. LOL

Thank you.
What's even more mind boggling is that our universe may be like this even without being curved, there's no extradimensional shape. Which is probably the case I think, but it's more or less unvisualizable.

TimeSeeker
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Re: Universe can't be infinite.

Post by TimeSeeker » Fri Nov 16, 2018 7:27 am

Atla wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 7:12 am
Luxin wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:39 am
Mind boggling. If space is curved, I guess a travelling god could (only theoretically) come back to where they started, which suggests the Universe might be elliptical. If that's so, is there something outside that theoretically elliptical thing that has material form but an abstract essence equating with a rock and it's speed of vibration?

Perhaps we're not meant to know the answer? Better to figure out how to be happy. We are Divine beings, but thinking about infinity -- infinity?? -- I can think of infinity in 'going around' like in the symbol for infinity, 8, but I can't picture infinity going 'straight out forever'. An ant in your house can't imagine your 'enormous hand of God' will terminate its existence either.

As I can't get my mind around 'infinite in one direction', I feel comfortable imagining the universe as a huge elliptical form, and am perhaps as comfortable as folks felt imagining the earth was flat. LOL

Thank you.
What's even more mind boggling is that our universe may be like this even without being curved, there's no extradimensional shape. Which is probably the case I think, but it's more or less unvisualizable.
Physicists have long figured out how to get around the "unvisualisable" phenomena.
Untestability is a far worse problem to have.

Davyboi
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Re: Universe can't be infinite.

Post by Davyboi » Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:33 am

TimeSeeker wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 7:27 am
Atla wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 7:12 am
Luxin wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:39 am
Mind boggling. If space is curved, I guess a travelling god could (only theoretically) come back to where they started, which suggests the Universe might be elliptical. If that's so, is there something outside that theoretically elliptical thing that has material form but an abstract essence equating with a rock and it's speed of vibration?

Perhaps we're not meant to know the answer? Better to figure out how to be happy. We are Divine beings, but thinking about infinity -- infinity?? -- I can think of infinity in 'going around' like in the symbol for infinity, 8, but I can't picture infinity going 'straight out forever'. An ant in your house can't imagine your 'enormous hand of God' will terminate its existence either.

As I can't get my mind around 'infinite in one direction', I feel comfortable imagining the universe as a huge elliptical form, and am perhaps as comfortable as folks felt imagining the earth was flat. LOL

Thank you.
What's even more mind boggling is that our universe may be like this even without being curved, there's no extradimensional shape. Which is probably the case I think, but it's more or less unvisualizable.
Physicists have long figured out how to get around the "unvisualisable" phenomena.
Untestability is a far worse problem to have.
If the universe is elliptical in shape, then it must obey the laws of gravity. And Which means that the medium for example dark matter, that they say makes up most of the universe must also obey the laws of gravity, on some level that we Carnt or haven't discovered yet...how do I explain what I mean? ??
IMAGINE DARK MATTER WAS LIKE WATER, AND ARE UNIVERSE (MATTER) WAS AIR. they are both two different states. Imagine a glass of water, which is dark matter..and how many times have we seen an air bubble floating up! Which is matter are universe as an air bubble rising up it is experiencing forces, air pressing out, water pressing in. Gravity at work,
If a bubble of pressurised compressed air (universe/matter) was to be passed through water(dark matter) initially it's compressed pressurised state would enter the water then expand to a point were the forces would have equal force...i hope I'm making sense!
It's just an idea, a view on things.. scientists are wondering why are universe is expanding yet not expanding like it should be, an outside force keeping it from expanding quickly

Davyboi
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Re: Universe can't be infinite.

Post by Davyboi » Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:38 am

-1- wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:52 am
David Handeye wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2015 8:42 pm
Hi everybody,

Consider universe as infinite. This means it has no beginning, no ending, no borders, no center. In every point you will be in it, you will have infinite points in front of you, infinite points behind you, infinite points below you, inifinite points above you, you will have inifinite points everywhere around you, so that you'll be the center of the universe. If you go on the Moon, you'll be in the same conditions, so that in an infinite universe there are infinite centers at any time, not none. But center can be only one, so infinite centers infinite universes. But infinite has neither beginning nor ending, so there can't be even two infinites, and universe can't be infinite.
Your logic breaks down when you declare "Centre can only be one". That is not true of infinitely extending objects (conceptual or real). Center can only be one for finite objects or concepts. You are transporting a specification for a quality from one form to another, where the transporting creates a dichotomy, a self-contradiction, precisely because the transporting is illegal.
the universe is elliptical in shape, then it must obey the laws of gravity. And Which means that the medium for example dark matter, that they say makes up most of the universe must also obey the laws of gravity, on some level that we Carnt or haven't discovered yet...how do I explain what I mean? ??
IMAGINE DARK MATTER WAS LIKE WATER, AND ARE UNIVERSE (MATTER) WAS AIR. they are both two different states. Imagine a glass of water, which is dark matter..and how many times have we seen an air bubble floating up! Which is matter are universe as an air bubble rising up it is experiencing forces, air pressing out, water pressing in. Gravity at work,
If a bubble of pressurised compressed air (universe/matter) was to be passed through water(dark matter) initially it's compressed pressurised state would enter the water then expand to a point were the forces would have equal force...i hope I'm making sense!
It's just an idea, a view on things.. scientists are wondering why are universe is expanding yet not expanding like it should be, an outside force keeping it from expanding quickly

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-1-
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Re: Universe can't be infinite.

Post by -1- » Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:54 am

Davyboi wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:38 am
the universe is elliptical in shape, then it must obey the laws of gravity. And Which means that the medium for example dark matter, that they say makes up most of the universe must also obey the laws of gravity, on some level that we Carnt or haven't discovered yet...how do I explain what I mean? ??
IMAGINE DARK MATTER WAS LIKE WATER, AND ARE UNIVERSE (MATTER) WAS AIR. they are both two different states. Imagine a glass of water, which is dark matter..and how many times have we seen an air bubble floating up! Which is matter are universe as an air bubble rising up it is experiencing forces, air pressing out, water pressing in. Gravity at work,
If a bubble of pressurised compressed air (universe/matter) was to be passed through water(dark matter) initially it's compressed pressurised state would enter the water then expand to a point were the forces would have equal force...i hope I'm making sense!
It's just an idea, a view on things.. scientists are wondering why are universe is expanding yet not expanding like it should be, an outside force keeping it from expanding quickly
This actually makes good sense to me.

Davyboi
Posts: 180
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2018 6:56 pm

Re: Universe can't be infinite.

Post by Davyboi » Sat Nov 17, 2018 2:02 am

-1- wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:54 am
Davyboi wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:38 am
the universe is elliptical in shape, then it must obey the laws of gravity. And Which means that the medium for example dark matter, that they say makes up most of the universe must also obey the laws of gravity, on some level that we Carnt or haven't discovered yet...how do I explain what I mean? ??
IMAGINE DARK MATTER WAS LIKE WATER, AND ARE UNIVERSE (MATTER) WAS AIR. they are both two different states. Imagine a glass of water, which is dark matter..and how many times have we seen an air bubble floating up! Which is matter are universe as an air bubble rising up it is experiencing forces, air pressing out, water pressing in. Gravity at work,
If a bubble of pressurised compressed air (universe/matter) was to be passed through water(dark matter) initially it's compressed pressurised state would enter the water then expand to a point were the forces would have equal force...i hope I'm making sense!
It's just an idea, a view on things.. scientists are wondering why are universe is expanding yet not expanding like it should be, an outside force keeping it from expanding quickly
This actually makes good sense to me.
Thank you! Much appreciated! Before I posted it i read it a few times, and to be truthful I thought I sounded like a madman! Lol..

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-1-
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Re: Universe can't be infinite.

Post by -1- » Sat Nov 17, 2018 2:09 am

Davyboi wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 2:02 am
-1- wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:54 am
This actually makes good sense to me.
Thank you! Much appreciated! Before I posted it i read it a few times, and to be truthful I thought I sounded like a madman! Lol..
Relax: you did sound like a madman. But this is a situation where a classic line applies.

Two guys are driving a car. One wheel falls off, and they don't know how to put it back on the axle. They are parked outside the town mental asylum. An inmate is watching them from behind a tall wire fence. Finally, he pipes up:

"Take one nut off each remaining wheel, and use those three nuts to fasten the wheel. Then drive to the nearest repair shop and get some extra nuts to replace the missing ones."

The two guys look at each other, and say to him, "hey, guy, you are smart. Why are you in a mental asylum when you are able to give such good advice?"

"Because I am crazy but not stupid," answers the inmate.

Davyboi
Posts: 180
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Re: Universe can't be infinite.

Post by Davyboi » Sat Nov 17, 2018 2:51 am

-1- wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 2:09 am
Davyboi wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 2:02 am
-1- wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:54 am
This actually makes good sense to me.
Thank you! Much appreciated! Before I posted it i read it a few times, and to be truthful I thought I sounded like a madman! Lol..
Relax: you did sound like a madman. But this is a situation where a classic line applies.

Two guys are driving a car. One wheel falls off, and they don't know how to put it back on the axle. They are parked outside the town mental asylum. An inmate is watching them from behind a tall wire fence. Finally, he pipes up:

"Take one nut off each remaining wheel, and use those three nuts to fasten the wheel. Then drive to the nearest repair shop and get some extra nuts to replace the missing ones."

The two guys look at each other, and say to him, "hey, guy, you are smart. Why are you in a mental asylum when you are able to give such good advice?"

"Because I am crazy but not stupid," answers the inmate.
Haha I like that. 😀

Greylorn Ell
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Re: Universe can't be infinite.

Post by Greylorn Ell » Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:45 am

Effing pinheaded philosopher wanna-be's who've never studied enough theoretical math to know a wormhole from a butthole, pretending to have useful insights about any concept related to space. Boring, pretentious nits, the lot of you. And you, whatever your handle, are the stupidist of the lot.

Years ago, before being booted off, I found more intelligent people on the Catholic Answers Forum than I've ever found here. Did you clowns buy whatever passes in you for minds at an internet discount store?

Greylorn

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