Universe can't be infinite.

So what's really going on?

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Ginkgo
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Re: Universe can't be infinite.

Post by Ginkgo » Fri Mar 13, 2015 11:51 am

David Handeye wrote:Hi everybody,

Consider universe as infinite. This means it has no beginning, no ending, no borders, no center. In every point you will be in it, you will have infinite points in front of you, infinite points behind you, infinite points below you, inifinite points above you, you will have inifinite points everywhere around you, so that you'll be the center of the universe. If you go on the Moon, you'll be in the same conditions, so that in an infinite universe there are infinite centers at any time, not none. But center can be only one, so infinite centers infinite universes. But infinite has neither beginning nor ending, so there can't be even two infinites, and universe can't be infinite.
David Handeye wrote: A universe that has no beginning, end or borders doesn't have to satisfy any claim to infinity. A finite universe can have no centre, borders or edges. Depending on the type of typology you choose to represent the universe. It is generally accepted that the universe has no centre, regardless of it being finite or infinite.
I tried to reach reasonable concerning of universe limitless suggestion without a telescope :mrgreen: [/quote] .
David Handeye wrote:
Just to think. That should serve philosophy, I hope.
I am sure it does.




Sorry about my use of the word "typology". I did mean to use the word "topology".

Ginkgo
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Re: Universe can't be infinite.

Post by Ginkgo » Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:44 pm

I mean to say I am sure you are making a worthwhile contribution.

David Handeye
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Re: Universe can't be infinite.

Post by David Handeye » Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:51 pm

Ginkgo wrote:I mean to say I am sure you are making a worthwhile contribution.
That's ok, Ginkgo. Always read very pleasantly all of your posts :wink:

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Universe can't be infinite.

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Fri Mar 13, 2015 11:04 pm

GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:
thedoc wrote:
David Handeye wrote:Yes, you're perfectly right, doc, loose one and you loose infinity.. But I think infinite has no beginning, otherwise it wouldn't be that. And that would be another reason to consider universe not infinite.
Yes, as of now the best guess is that the universe had a beginning, the Big Bang, but it's only a guess, and since I wasn't there to see it, I can't say for sure. I can only go on what the experts tell me they have discovered. An expanding universe implies that the expansion started sometime in the past.
The same "experts" who faked the moon landing? Yeah I wouldn't trust them. Big bang's just a guess, there's plenty of honest scientists who don't work for NASA...right?

Or we could just be pawns in a simulation...

"apollo 11 is not fake"

It's fake as fuck, I'm sorry to say.


I'll get some energy when I'm done laughing to type it out.
It would have been a lot harder to fake it that just damnwell go there.

Greylorn Ell
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Re: Universe can't be infinite.

Post by Greylorn Ell » Fri Mar 20, 2015 7:30 am

David Handeye wrote:Hi everybody,

Consider universe as infinite. This means it has no beginning, no ending, no borders, no center. In every point you will be in it, you will have infinite points in front of you, infinite points behind you, infinite points below you, inifinite points above you, you will have inifinite points everywhere around you, so that you'll be the center of the universe. If you go on the Moon, you'll be in the same conditions, so that in an infinite universe there are infinite centers at any time, not none. But center can be only one, so infinite centers infinite universes. But infinite has neither beginning nor ending, so there can't be even two infinites, and universe can't be infinite.
David,

Fair enough logic. After you learn how to spell both "infinite" and "infinity" with the help of your freely provided spell checker that underlines misspelled words, and then find a dictionary that explains the distinctions between these words, you'll want to study finite mathematics. Or, probably not.

Greylorn

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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: Universe can't be infinite.

Post by Hobbes' Choice » Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:36 pm

David Handeye wrote:Hi everybody,

Consider universe as infinite. This means it has no beginning, no ending, no borders, no center. In every point you will be in it, you will have infinite points in front of you, infinite points behind you, infinite points below you, inifinite points above you, you will have inifinite points everywhere around you, so that you'll be the center of the universe. If you go on the Moon, you'll be in the same conditions, so that in an infinite universe there are infinite centers at any time, not none. But center can be only one, so infinite centers infinite universes. But infinite has neither beginning nor ending, so there can't be even two infinites, and universe can't be infinite.
Infinite has two meanings.
1) limitless, endless.
2) of indeterminable magnitude.

I assume you mean 1). Contrary to your post; an infinite universe cannot have a centre of itself, but can have a perspectival centre, and that always resides with the observer. But this is consistent with the current cosmologies.

Problems:
A thing can have a start but still be infinite spatially; why not?
It can also end, having been infinite.
Temporal and spatial infinitude need not be confused.

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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: Universe can't be infinite.

Post by Hobbes' Choice » Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:38 pm

jackles wrote:Think I follow that theres but one infinity which cant be infinitly happening. But it can be can be infinity without event.
A thing that by definition does not happen cannot be demonstrated.

David Handeye
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Re: Universe can't be infinite.

Post by David Handeye » Fri Mar 20, 2015 2:05 pm

Hobbes' Choice wrote: Infinite has two meanings.
1) limitless, endless.
2) of indeterminable magnitude.

I assume you mean 1). Contrary to your post; an infinite universe cannot have a centre of itself, but can have a perspectival centre, and that always resides with the observer. But this is consistent with the current cosmologies.

Problems:
A thing can have a start but still be infinite spatially; why not?
It can also end, having been infinite.
Temporal and spatial infinitude need not be confused.
Ok, clear. Only, how could something end having been infinite? Could you make me an example?

thedoc
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Re: Universe can't be infinite.

Post by thedoc » Fri Mar 20, 2015 4:21 pm

Hobbes' Choice wrote: Infinite has two meanings.
1) limitless, endless.
2) of indeterminable magnitude.

I assume you mean 1). Contrary to your post; an infinite universe cannot have a centre of itself, but can have a perspectival centre, and that always resides with the observer. But this is consistent with the current cosmologies.

Problems:
A thing can have a start but still be infinite spatially; why not?
It can also end, having been infinite.
Temporal and spatial infinitude need not be confused.
I understand the difference between temporal and spatial infinitude but I'm having difficulty seeing how they can be completely independent. I assume that is the point, and if so, when the temporal infinitude ends, so would the spatial and therefore the spatial is no longer infinite and possibly never was. I would think the 2 should be interconnected. A spatial infinity that doesn't last forever is a questionable infinity.

ianrust
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Re: Universe can't be infinite.

Post by ianrust » Sat Apr 25, 2015 10:15 pm

The universe is created by consciousness, in the same way God said "let there be light".


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Arising_uk
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Re: Universe can't be infinite.

Post by Arising_uk » Sun Apr 26, 2015 2:08 am

ianrust wrote:The universe is created by consciousness, in the same way God said "let there be light".
Which universe was 'it' living in?

ianrust
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Re: Universe can't be infinite.

Post by ianrust » Sun Apr 26, 2015 2:19 am

Arising_uk wrote:
ianrust wrote:The universe is created by consciousness, in the same way God said "let there be light".
Which universe was 'it' living in?
You do not know God, to refer to God as 'it'. God transcends all boundaries; this is why I cannot define God in any precise way; I can only undefine God wherever possible. But, God has been in every universe which has been conceived.

Greylorn Ell
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Re: Universe can't be infinite.

Post by Greylorn Ell » Sun Apr 26, 2015 8:09 pm

Unless you propose that God has genitalia, reproductive organs, or plant-like reproductive mechanisms, "it" is the grammatically correct pronoun.

Greylorn

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Arising_uk
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Re: Universe can't be infinite.

Post by Arising_uk » Mon Apr 27, 2015 12:11 am

inrush wrote:... God transcends all boundaries; this is why I cannot define God in any precise way; ...
And yet you just gave such a definition?
But, God has been in every universe which has been conceived.
And another one?

These are called contradictions in Philosophy and as such are always false.

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