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Man, like the universe, is a machine
Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:49 pm
by Bill Wiltrack
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There is no conflict between the ideal of religion and the ideal of science, but science is opposed to theological dogmas because science is founded on fact.
To me, the universe is simply a great machine which never came into being and never will end. The human being is no exception to the natural order.
Man, like the universe, is a machine. Nothing enters our minds or determines our actions which is not directly or indirectly a response to stimuli beating upon our sense organs from without. Owing to the similarity of our construction and the sameness of our environment, we respond in like manner to similar stimuli, and from the concordance of our reactions, understanding is born.
In the course of ages, mechanisms of infinite complexity are developed, but what we call "soul" or "spirit," is nothing more than the sum of the functionings of the body. When this functioning ceases, the "soul" or the "spirit" ceases likewise.
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Re: Man, like the universe, is a machine
Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 2:41 pm
by tbieter
Bill Wiltrack wrote:.
There is no conflict between the ideal of religion and the ideal of science, but science is opposed to theological dogmas because science is founded on fact.
To me, the universe is simply a great machine which never came into being and never will end. The human being is no exception to the natural order.
Man, like the universe, is a machine. Nothing enters our minds or determines our actions which is not directly or indirectly a response to stimuli beating upon our sense organs from without. Owing to the similarity of our construction and the sameness of our environment, we respond in like manner to similar stimuli, and from the concordance of our reactions, understanding is born.
In the course of ages, mechanisms of infinite complexity are developed, but what we call "soul" or "spirit," is nothing more than the sum of the functionings of the body. When this functioning ceases, the "soul" or the "spirit" ceases likewise.
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Last week I finished a book, A Guide for the Perplexed, by E. F. Schumacher that deals precisely with the opinion that you express.
http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Perplexed-E ... schumacher
Your erroneous opinion relates to confusion over the levels of being. You put all beings in the category of the inanimate object, the lowest level of being.
Human beings are distinguished from the inanimate objects by consciousness, and by being self-aware.
You know that you exist and worship the labor contract. A stone does not know.
I challenge you, Bill, to read the book and then report back here.
Re: Man, like the universe, is a machine
Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:17 pm
by Bill Wiltrack
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Challenge Accepted!
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Re: Man, like the universe, is a machine
Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:22 pm
by hammock
Bill Wiltrack wrote:In the course of ages, mechanisms of infinite complexity are developed, but what we call "soul" or "spirit," is nothing more than the sum of the functionings of the body. When this functioning ceases, the "soul" or the "spirit" ceases likewise.
Okay, who is it that found Bill's password and is using his PN account / username? A visiting friend or relative? Hope you got his permission.
Re: Man, like the universe, is a machine
Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:33 pm
by Bill Wiltrack
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Ding! Ding! Ding! - You kinda got it right.
I quoted Nikola Tesla above to see if his words would be attacked - just because it appeared that a Mister Bill Wiltrack may have originally stated the original quote.
Well done.
You win a puppy!
Re: Man, like the universe, is a machine
Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:52 pm
by tbieter
Bill Wiltrack wrote:.
Challenge Accepted!
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GREAT! i LOOK FORWARD TO YOUR REACTION TO THE AUTHOR'S HIERARCHY OF BEING ARGUMENT AFTER YOU HAVE READ THE BOOK.
TOM
Re: Man, like the universe, is a machine
Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 9:34 pm
by Ginkgo
Bill Wiltrack wrote:.
There is no conflict between the ideal of religion and the ideal of science, but science is opposed to theological dogmas because science is founded on fact.
To me, the universe is simply a great machine which never came into being and never will end. The human being is no exception to the natural order.
Man, like the universe, is a machine. Nothing enters our minds or determines our actions which is not directly or indirectly a response to stimuli beating upon our sense organs from without. Owing to the similarity of our construction and the sameness of our environment, we respond in like manner to similar stimuli, and from the concordance of our reactions, understanding is born.
In the course of ages, mechanisms of infinite complexity are developed, but what we call "soul" or "spirit," is nothing more than the sum of the functionings of the body. When this functioning ceases, the "soul" or the "spirit" ceases likewise.
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This idea developed into what we now call 'physicalism'. The idea that if you put enough inanimate stuff together and give it enough time out this will emerge a 'soul' or 'spirit'. In modern philosophy of mind, things such as souls and spirits are replaced by the term 'consciousness'.
Strong AI people say that if you put enough silicon computer chips together you will find that consciousness will emerge from this complexity. In other words, some time in the future computers will be conscious in the same way as humans are conscious.
Re: Man, like the universe, is a machine
Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 9:48 pm
by Gee
Ginkgo wrote:
Strong AI people say that if you put enough silicon computer chips together you will find that consciousness will emerge from this complexity. In other words, some time in the future computers will be conscious in the same way as humans are conscious.
Ginkgo;
That may be pushing things a bit. First we will have to see how many silicon computer chips it takes to make a computer as conscious as a blade of grass. (chuckle)
Gee
Re: Man, like the universe, is a machine
Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 9:58 pm
by Ginkgo
Gee wrote:Ginkgo wrote:
Strong AI people say that if you put enough silicon computer chips together you will find that consciousness will emerge from this complexity. In other words, some time in the future computers will be conscious in the same way as humans are conscious.
Ginkgo;
That may be pushing things a bit. First we will have to see how many silicon computer chips it takes to make a computer as conscious as a blade of grass. (chuckle)
Gee
From my point of view it wouldn't matter if we could build a computer the size of the moon. It will never be conscious. Strong AI people would disagree with me.
Re: Man, like the universe, is a machine
Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 12:56 am
by Arising_uk
Who did you plagiarise this from Bill?
Re: Man, like the universe, is a machine
Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 2:26 am
by Bill Wiltrack
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Tesla.
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Re: Man, like the universe, is a machine
Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 2:28 am
by Arising_uk
Then you should attribute him rather than trying to ride his coat-tails.
Re: Man, like the universe, is a machine
Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 3:16 am
by Arising_uk
Bill Wiltrack wrote:.
... just because it appeared that a Mister Bill Wiltrack may have originally stated the original quote.
No chance of that.
Re: Man, like the universe, is a machine
Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 3:21 am
by Arising_uk
tbieter wrote:...
Your erroneous opinion relates to confusion over the levels of being. You put all beings in the category of the inanimate object, the lowest level of being.
Human beings are distinguished from the inanimate objects by consciousness, and by being self-aware.
You know that you exist and worship the labor contract. A stone does not know.
I challenge you, Bill, to read the book and then report back here.
There's nothing in Tesla's argument that equates humans with being the same machine as the universe? He clearly states that it's the sense organs that make us and a stone does not have such things and as such cannot respond and therefore know.
Re: Man, like the universe, is a machine
Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 7:58 am
by hammock
Bill Wiltrack wrote:...Well done. You win a puppy!
I'll take the dachshund if the cerberus pup hasn't consumed him between frankfurter buns yet.