## Could something whose existence depends on something else be free?

So what's really going on?

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Age
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### Re: Could something whose existence depends on something else be free?

bahman wrote: Sat Jan 21, 2023 3:24 pm
Age wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 10:24 pm
bahman wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 9:02 pm
Causality! Have you ever had doubts? How doubt could be real if there is only a chain of causality?
If there IS 'an eternal chain of causality', which there OBVIOUSLY IS, then this does NOT mean that one could NOT possibly have 'doubt', for example one might 'doubt' that they will NOT win the lotto next week.

'Doubt' IS REAL. As 'i' doubt 'you' will FULLY UNDERSTAND the GUTOE before this week is out. BUT, I KNOW there IS a chain of causality.
Have you ever doubt to invest in something knowing the fact that the future is uncertain?
Just because some 'things' are uncertain about the future this does NOT necessarily mean that absolutely EVERY 'thing' is.

The ACTUAL and IRREFUTABLE Fact is ONLY SOME 'things' about the future are uncertain.
bahman wrote: Sat Jan 21, 2023 3:24 pm Are you able not to have something you desire for no specific reason?
Not that this will have absolutely ANY 'thing' to do with what I SAID and EXPLAINED above, my answer is No.
bahman
Posts: 7275
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### Re: Could something whose existence depends on something else be free?

Age wrote: Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:07 am
bahman wrote: Sat Jan 21, 2023 3:22 pm
Age wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 10:18 pm

Is there ANY 'thing', which is NOT depended upon some thing else?

If yes, then what EXACTLY?

Also, maybe if you provide some examples, then your BELIEFS of what is IRREFUTABLY true here, which you are trying to express here, might become much easier and/or better understood.
By reducible I mean that the existence of something depends on something else. Mind is an example of an irreducible substance. But to show this we have to agree that regress is impossible.
Well considering the Fact that 'regress' EXISTS, and SO it being NOT just POSSIBLE but an ACTUALITY you will NEVER be able to show what you are so desperately WANTING and HOPING to here.

By the way, I just SUGGESTED PROVIDING EXAMPLES. What you are replying to is some 'thing' VERY DIFFERENT.

Also, absolutely NO one HAS TO agree that 'regress' is impossible for you to be able to SHOW that 'mind' is an irreducible substance. you are just 'TRYING TO' DEFLECT here, ONCE AGAIN.
I cannot help you if you believe in regress. Something unreachable that can be reached.
bahman
Posts: 7275
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:52 pm

### Re: Could something whose existence depends on something else be free?

Age wrote: Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:20 am
bahman wrote: Sat Jan 21, 2023 3:24 pm
Age wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 10:24 pm

If there IS 'an eternal chain of causality', which there OBVIOUSLY IS, then this does NOT mean that one could NOT possibly have 'doubt', for example one might 'doubt' that they will NOT win the lotto next week.

'Doubt' IS REAL. As 'i' doubt 'you' will FULLY UNDERSTAND the GUTOE before this week is out. BUT, I KNOW there IS a chain of causality.
Have you ever doubt to invest in something knowing the fact that the future is uncertain?
Just because some 'things' are uncertain about the future this does NOT necessarily mean that absolutely EVERY 'thing' is.

The ACTUAL and IRREFUTABLE Fact is ONLY SOME 'things' about the future are uncertain.
Why don't you try to answer my question?
Age wrote: Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:20 am
bahman wrote: Sat Jan 21, 2023 3:24 pm Are you able not to have something you desire for no specific reason?
Not that this will have absolutely ANY 'thing' to do with what I SAID and EXPLAINED above, my answer is No.
So you are a robot and not responsible for your action.
Age
Posts: 14175
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

### Re: Could something whose existence depends on something else be free?

bahman wrote: Sun Jan 22, 2023 2:48 pm
Age wrote: Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:07 am
bahman wrote: Sat Jan 21, 2023 3:22 pm
By reducible I mean that the existence of something depends on something else. Mind is an example of an irreducible substance. But to show this we have to agree that regress is impossible.
Well considering the Fact that 'regress' EXISTS, and SO it being NOT just POSSIBLE but an ACTUALITY you will NEVER be able to show what you are so desperately WANTING and HOPING to here.

By the way, I just SUGGESTED PROVIDING EXAMPLES. What you are replying to is some 'thing' VERY DIFFERENT.

Also, absolutely NO one HAS TO agree that 'regress' is impossible for you to be able to SHOW that 'mind' is an irreducible substance. you are just 'TRYING TO' DEFLECT here, ONCE AGAIN.
I cannot help you if you believe in regress. Something unreachable that can be reached.
But, ONCE AGAIN, I do NOT believe 'this'.

ALSO, NOT many people use the 'regress' word to refer to the 'unreachable'.

For example, when the pen is unreachable to a human being from the position of sitting in a chair, I am NOT sure HOW the 'regress' word could FIT IN or RELATE here. MAYBE you could CLEAR things up here now.
Age
Posts: 14175
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

### Re: Could something whose existence depends on something else be free?

bahman wrote: Sun Jan 22, 2023 2:51 pm
Age wrote: Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:20 am
bahman wrote: Sat Jan 21, 2023 3:24 pm
Have you ever doubt to invest in something knowing the fact that the future is uncertain?
Just because some 'things' are uncertain about the future this does NOT necessarily mean that absolutely EVERY 'thing' is.

The ACTUAL and IRREFUTABLE Fact is ONLY SOME 'things' about the future are uncertain.
Why don't you try to answer my question?
To ANSWER the ACTUAL QUESTION you posed to me here the answer is 'No'.

As I just EXPLAINED to you the future is NO ALWAYS 'uncertain'. So, OBVIOUSLY, KNOWING this Fact I would NEVER do or NOT do some 'thing' knowing the fact that the future is 'uncertain' BECAUSE the future is NOT ALWAYS 'uncertain'.

And, LOL, you asking me why I do NOT try to answer your question is Truly HYPOCRITICAL of you. As our discussions, in not just this thread but throughout this forum, is LIVING PROOF of just how HYPOCRITICAL this question IS, from the intention behind the way you asked this question.
bahman wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 4:03 pm
Age wrote: Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:20 am
bahman wrote: Sat Jan 21, 2023 3:24 pm Are you able not to have something you desire for no specific reason?
Not that this will have absolutely ANY 'thing' to do with what I SAID and EXPLAINED above, my answer is No.
So you are a robot and not responsible for your action.
Just because I am ABLE TO DO SOME 'things', SOME of the time, does NOT mean that 'I' am NECESSARILY some particular 'thing'.

And, would it not be MORE CORRECT to CLAIM that the ones who are able to do some 'thing', for NO specific reason, would be the ones who would be MORE CLASSIFIED a 'robot'?
bahman
Posts: 7275
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:52 pm

### Re: Could something whose existence depends on something else be free?

Age wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 2:38 am
bahman wrote: Sun Jan 22, 2023 2:48 pm
Age wrote: Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:07 am

Well considering the Fact that 'regress' EXISTS, and SO it being NOT just POSSIBLE but an ACTUALITY you will NEVER be able to show what you are so desperately WANTING and HOPING to here.

By the way, I just SUGGESTED PROVIDING EXAMPLES. What you are replying to is some 'thing' VERY DIFFERENT.

Also, absolutely NO one HAS TO agree that 'regress' is impossible for you to be able to SHOW that 'mind' is an irreducible substance. you are just 'TRYING TO' DEFLECT here, ONCE AGAIN.
I cannot help you if you believe in regress. Something unreachable that can be reached.
But, ONCE AGAIN, I do NOT believe 'this'.

ALSO, NOT many people use the 'regress' word to refer to the 'unreachable'.

For example, when the pen is unreachable to a human being from the position of sitting in a chair, I am NOT sure HOW the 'regress' word could FIT IN or RELATE here. MAYBE you could CLEAR things up here now.
I mean by regress something that is unreachable. Either you accept my definition or it is the end of the discussion.
Age
Posts: 14175
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

### Re: Could something whose existence depends on something else be free?

bahman wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 12:43 pm
Age wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 2:38 am
bahman wrote: Sun Jan 22, 2023 2:48 pm
I cannot help you if you believe in regress. Something unreachable that can be reached.
But, ONCE AGAIN, I do NOT believe 'this'.

ALSO, NOT many people use the 'regress' word to refer to the 'unreachable'.

For example, when the pen is unreachable to a human being from the position of sitting in a chair, I am NOT sure HOW the 'regress' word could FIT IN or RELATE here. MAYBE you could CLEAR things up here now.
I mean by regress something that is unreachable. Either you accept my definition or it is the end of the discussion.
Well I am NOT going to accept a definition that does NOT work with what is ACTUALLY and IRREFUTABLY True.

BUT, I do ACCEPT that that when 'you' USE the word 'regress' 'you' mean that whatever that word is in reference to is 'UNREACHABLE', whatever that ACTUALLY means.

Anyway, NONE of this changes the Fact that the Universe is eternal AND infinite.
bahman
Posts: 7275
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:52 pm

### Re: Could something whose existence depends on something else be free?

Age wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 1:00 pm
bahman wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 12:43 pm
Age wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 2:38 am

But, ONCE AGAIN, I do NOT believe 'this'.

ALSO, NOT many people use the 'regress' word to refer to the 'unreachable'.

For example, when the pen is unreachable to a human being from the position of sitting in a chair, I am NOT sure HOW the 'regress' word could FIT IN or RELATE here. MAYBE you could CLEAR things up here now.
I mean by regress something that is unreachable. Either you accept my definition or it is the end of the discussion.
Well I am NOT going to accept a definition that does NOT work with what is ACTUALLY and IRREFUTABLY True.

BUT, I do ACCEPT that that when 'you' USE the word 'regress' 'you' mean that whatever that word is in reference to is 'UNREACHABLE', whatever that ACTUALLY means.

Anyway, NONE of this changes the Fact that the Universe is eternal AND infinite.
And what do you mean by eternal?
Age
Posts: 14175
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

### Re: Could something whose existence depends on something else be free?

bahman wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 2:12 pm
Age wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 1:00 pm
bahman wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 12:43 pm
I mean by regress something that is unreachable. Either you accept my definition or it is the end of the discussion.
Well I am NOT going to accept a definition that does NOT work with what is ACTUALLY and IRREFUTABLY True.

BUT, I do ACCEPT that that when 'you' USE the word 'regress' 'you' mean that whatever that word is in reference to is 'UNREACHABLE', whatever that ACTUALLY means.

Anyway, NONE of this changes the Fact that the Universe is eternal AND infinite.
And what do you mean by eternal?
NEVER 'ending' NOR 'beginning' in 'duration'.
bahman
Posts: 7275
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:52 pm

### Re: Could something whose existence depends on something else be free?

Age wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 6:30 am
bahman wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 2:12 pm
Age wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 1:00 pm

Well I am NOT going to accept a definition that does NOT work with what is ACTUALLY and IRREFUTABLY True.

BUT, I do ACCEPT that that when 'you' USE the word 'regress' 'you' mean that whatever that word is in reference to is 'UNREACHABLE', whatever that ACTUALLY means.

Anyway, NONE of this changes the Fact that the Universe is eternal AND infinite.
And what do you mean by eternal?
NEVER 'ending' NOR 'beginning' in 'duration'.
So I am done with you. You think that something eternal can be reached which has no beginning nor end.
Age
Posts: 14175
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

### Re: Could something whose existence depends on something else be free?

bahman wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 12:16 pm
Age wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 6:30 am
bahman wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 2:12 pm
And what do you mean by eternal?
NEVER 'ending' NOR 'beginning' in 'duration'.
So I am done with you. You think that something eternal can be reached which has no beginning nor end.
LOL 'you' are SO Wrong AGAIN here "bahman".

WHY do you, continually, ALLOW your OWN ASSUMPTIONS to get IN THE WAY of what thee ACTUAL Truth IS "bahman"? you will NEVER come to LEARN and UNDERSTAND what thee ACTUAL Truth IS, EXACTLY, if you keep LETTING your OWN ASSUMING to GET IN THE WAY.

In other words, you will NEVER reach thee Truth, even though 'It' is NOT endless, NOR eternal.

Or, do you actually think or BELIEVE that you have ALREADY reached thee Truth of 'things' here?
bahman
Posts: 7275
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:52 pm

### Re: Could something whose existence depends on something else be free?

Age wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 11:33 pm
bahman wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 12:16 pm
Age wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 6:30 am

NEVER 'ending' NOR 'beginning' in 'duration'.
So I am done with you. You think that something eternal can be reached which has no beginning nor end.
LOL 'you' are SO Wrong AGAIN here "bahman".

WHY do you, continually, ALLOW your OWN ASSUMPTIONS to get IN THE WAY of what thee ACTUAL Truth IS "bahman"? you will NEVER come to LEARN and UNDERSTAND what thee ACTUAL Truth IS, EXACTLY, if you keep LETTING your OWN ASSUMING to GET IN THE WAY.

In other words, you will NEVER reach thee Truth, even though 'It' is NOT endless, NOR eternal.

Or, do you actually think or BELIEVE that you have ALREADY reached thee Truth of 'things' here?
Such a waste of time.
Age
Posts: 14175
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

### Re: Could something whose existence depends on something else be free?

bahman wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 12:03 pm
Age wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 11:33 pm
bahman wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 12:16 pm
So I am done with you. You think that something eternal can be reached which has no beginning nor end.
LOL 'you' are SO Wrong AGAIN here "bahman".

WHY do you, continually, ALLOW your OWN ASSUMPTIONS to get IN THE WAY of what thee ACTUAL Truth IS "bahman"? you will NEVER come to LEARN and UNDERSTAND what thee ACTUAL Truth IS, EXACTLY, if you keep LETTING your OWN ASSUMING to GET IN THE WAY.

In other words, you will NEVER reach thee Truth, even though 'It' is NOT endless, NOR eternal.

Or, do you actually think or BELIEVE that you have ALREADY reached thee Truth of 'things' here?
Such a waste of time.
AGAIN, you have a SERIOUS ISSUE with being ABLE TO just CLARIFY your OWN position.
bahman
Posts: 7275
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:52 pm

### Re: Could something whose existence depends on something else be free?

Age wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 6:02 am
bahman wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 12:03 pm
Age wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 11:33 pm

LOL 'you' are SO Wrong AGAIN here "bahman".

WHY do you, continually, ALLOW your OWN ASSUMPTIONS to get IN THE WAY of what thee ACTUAL Truth IS "bahman"? you will NEVER come to LEARN and UNDERSTAND what thee ACTUAL Truth IS, EXACTLY, if you keep LETTING your OWN ASSUMING to GET IN THE WAY.

In other words, you will NEVER reach thee Truth, even though 'It' is NOT endless, NOR eternal.

Or, do you actually think or BELIEVE that you have ALREADY reached thee Truth of 'things' here?
Such a waste of time.
AGAIN, you have a SERIOUS ISSUE with being ABLE TO just CLARIFY your OWN position.
You have a serious issue with understanding the basics, such as eternity can be reached!
Age
Posts: 14175
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

### Re: Could something whose existence depends on something else be free?

bahman wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 10:59 am
Age wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 6:02 am
bahman wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 12:03 pm
Such a waste of time.
AGAIN, you have a SERIOUS ISSUE with being ABLE TO just CLARIFY your OWN position.
You have a serious issue with understanding the basics, such as eternity can be reached!
Did you REALLY mean the 'can' word here?