We are living in simulating reality

So what's really going on?

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Walker
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Re: We are living in simulating reality

Post by Walker »

Sculptor wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 9:54 pm
Walker wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 7:26 pm
Sculptor wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 4:38 pm Although perception is not a process rendering direct access to reality, does not mean we are not living in reality.
Only insofar as delusion is considered to be an aspect of reality. Delusion exists within the context of reality, because there is nowhere else for delusion to exist.

However, in the sense that folks have the activated capacity to perceive, react to, and believe in delusion, then folks do not live in reality.

Everyone has delusions. Relationships with delusion, vary. The variance is clinging. Release clinging to thought, to silence thought, to live in reality without delusion.

Thought is change, change is detected by movement. One thought only, that does not move to another thought, is no change.
Whether or not you chose to call it delusion, illusion, perception there is not doubt that we all "see" the world is different ways. This is because we cannot directly have access to reality.
No one sees exactly what is there. One can detract from Kant as much as one chooses but he was right about that.
Choice is not a factor, since folks do as they must ... such as overlook the gist.

Do you or Kant have a comment about clinging to perception, or the beliefs generated by clinging to perception? Clinging is the gist that can be referenced moment-to-moment, since it's not dependent on abstract notions of reality, or words in a book, plus everyone in their own, "different" way, knows of the Clingons.
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Sculptor
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Re: We are living in simulating reality

Post by Sculptor »

Walker wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 12:42 pm
Sculptor wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 9:54 pm
Walker wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 7:26 pm
Only insofar as delusion is considered to be an aspect of reality. Delusion exists within the context of reality, because there is nowhere else for delusion to exist.

However, in the sense that folks have the activated capacity to perceive, react to, and believe in delusion, then folks do not live in reality.

Everyone has delusions. Relationships with delusion, vary. The variance is clinging. Release clinging to thought, to silence thought, to live in reality without delusion.

Thought is change, change is detected by movement. One thought only, that does not move to another thought, is no change.
Whether or not you chose to call it delusion, illusion, perception there is not doubt that we all "see" the world is different ways. This is because we cannot directly have access to reality.
No one sees exactly what is there. One can detract from Kant as much as one chooses but he was right about that.
Choice is not a factor, since folks do as they must ... such as overlook the gist.

Do you or Kant have a comment about clinging to perception, or the beliefs generated by clinging to perception? Clinging is the gist that can be referenced moment-to-moment, since it's not dependent on abstract notions of reality, or words in a book, plus everyone in their own, "different" way, knows of the Clingons.
Gibberish.
Are you trying to make a point?
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bahman
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Re: We are living in simulating reality

Post by bahman »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 5:18 am
bahman wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 4:30 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 4:45 am If you are stating reality is with [entangled] with minds, then I will agree with you.
Besides there is no minds if there are no humans.
No, of course, there are minds in absence of humans as far as there is motion.
But there is no motion when there is no humans?
Of course, there is motion in absence of humans.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 4:45 am Here is a Zen wisdom to note;
  • “The wind was flapping the temple flag.
    Two monks were arguing about it.
    One said the flag was moving; the other said the wind was moving. Arguing back and forth they could not agree on the truth.
    The Sixth Patriarch [Hui Neng] said, ‘It is neither the wind that is moving nor the flag that is moving. It is your mind that is moving’.
    The two monks were struck with awe”

So no minds, no motion.
If you are not familiar with Zen, Zen views of reality are arrived from very deep reflection of reality.
He was right in saying there is no motion when there is no mind but he was wrong in assuming that there are only human minds.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 4:45 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 7:22 am
Note I stated subjected to a FSK...supported with rational philosophical reasoning.
Are you saying scientific facts based on empirical evidences from the scientific FSK cannot take humanity anywhere?
It is a good tool but it cannot tell you what the truth is.
What "truth" are you looking for? Absolute unconditional truths? Well they don't exist at all. There is no absolute truth-in-itself.

The most credible truths are from the science (also mathematics) even though they are at best mere polished conjectures. The most reliable truths are 'conjectures!' [polished].

Show me what other truths are more credible than those of science and mathematics?
The critical criteria for any truth is whether they are objective [rationally] and can contribute utility to mankind. Obviously you cannot deny this with scientific knowledge while acknowledging it has limitations as well.
What we are talking about is beyond the domain of science.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 4:45 am
I agree that the brain creates hallucinations but that is the mind that experiences them.
The brain is basically a physical thing thus do not create nor experiences.
It is the mind that generate hallucinations and experience them in separate functions [surely you are not ignorant of this?].

The human brain has many parts with separate functions so representing the multivariate mind.
Thus a mind [prefrontal cortex activities] can plan to have sex, drugs, entertainment, and the likes to trigger the pleasure center to generate pleasure within the mind.
Mind is not the outcome of brain functions.
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bahman
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Re: We are living in simulating reality

Post by bahman »

Sculptor wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 12:09 pm
bahman wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 9:58 pm
Sculptor wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 9:54 pm

DO you mean to ask "what is reality made of?"
Yes.
It's conceptual. It's a word we use to describe the world of matter and energy, which are also conceptual.
So matter and energy to you are conceptual entities. What do you mean that matter and energy are conceptual? Are you an idealist?
Sculptor wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 9:54 pm And, as I said above, as we have no direct access to it perceptually then all we say about it is also conceptual.
But we don't need to have direct access to them to understand them.
Sculptor wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 9:54 pm But there is no doubt that it is made of hard stuff and dangerous stuff, good and bad, fast and slow.
That is what they seem.
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Sculptor
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Re: We are living in simulating reality

Post by Sculptor »

bahman wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 8:55 pm
Sculptor wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 9:54 pm And, as I said above, as we have no direct access to it perceptually then all we say about it is also conceptual.
But we don't need to have direct access to them to understand them.
Why would you think that?
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bahman
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Re: We are living in simulating reality

Post by bahman »

Sculptor wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 9:17 pm
bahman wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 8:55 pm
Sculptor wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 9:54 pm And, as I said above, as we have no direct access to it perceptually then all we say about it is also conceptual.
But we don't need to have direct access to them to understand them.
Why would you think that?
All we need to know and agree on is that there is a motion.
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Sculptor
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Re: We are living in simulating reality

Post by Sculptor »

bahman wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 10:18 pm
Sculptor wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 9:17 pm
bahman wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 8:55 pm

But we don't need to have direct access to them to understand them.
Why would you think that?
All we need to know and agree on is that there is a motion.
I had one in the loo this morning. Is that a help?
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bahman
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Re: We are living in simulating reality

Post by bahman »

Sculptor wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 10:35 pm
bahman wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 10:18 pm
Sculptor wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 9:17 pm

Why would you think that?
All we need to know and agree on is that there is a motion.
I had one in the loo this morning. Is that a help?
Did you watch it or did experience it another way around!? :mrgreen:
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: We are living in simulating reality

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

bahman wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 8:49 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 5:18 am
bahman wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 4:30 pm
No, of course, there are minds in absence of humans as far as there is motion.
But there is no motion when there is no humans?
Of course, there is motion in absence of humans.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 4:45 am Here is a Zen wisdom to note;
  • “The wind was flapping the temple flag.
    Two monks were arguing about it.
    One said the flag was moving; the other said the wind was moving. Arguing back and forth they could not agree on the truth.
    The Sixth Patriarch [Hui Neng] said, ‘It is neither the wind that is moving nor the flag that is moving. It is your mind that is moving’.
    The two monks were struck with awe”

So no minds, no motion.
If you are not familiar with Zen, Zen views of reality are arrived from very deep reflection of reality.
He was right in saying there is no motion when there is no mind but he was wrong in assuming that there are only human minds.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 4:45 am
It is a good tool but it cannot tell you what the truth is.
What "truth" are you looking for? Absolute unconditional truths? Well they don't exist at all. There is no absolute truth-in-itself.

The most credible truths are from the science (also mathematics) even though they are at best mere polished conjectures. The most reliable truths are 'conjectures!' [polished].

Show me what other truths are more credible than those of science and mathematics?
The critical criteria for any truth is whether they are objective [rationally] and can contribute utility to mankind. Obviously you cannot deny this with scientific knowledge while acknowledging it has limitations as well.
What we are talking about is beyond the domain of science.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 4:45 am
I agree that the brain creates hallucinations but that is the mind that experiences them.
The brain is basically a physical thing thus do not create nor experiences.
It is the mind that generate hallucinations and experience them in separate functions [surely you are not ignorant of this?].

The human brain has many parts with separate functions so representing the multivariate mind.
Thus a mind [prefrontal cortex activities] can plan to have sex, drugs, entertainment, and the likes to trigger the pleasure center to generate pleasure within the mind.
Mind is not the outcome of brain functions.
An you prove there are other minds other than human minds?

Note definition of what is mind.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind
Walker
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Re: We are living in simulating reality

Post by Walker »

Iwannaplato wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 7:37 pm
Walker wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 7:26 pm
Sculptor wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 4:38 pm Although perception is not a process rendering direct access to reality, does not mean we are not living in reality.
Only insofar as delusion is considered to be an aspect of reality. Delusion exists within the context of reality, because there is nowhere else for delusion to exist.

However, in the sense that folks have the activated capacity to perceive, react to, and believe in delusion, then folks do not live in reality.

Everyone has delusions. Relationships with delusion, vary. The variance is clinging. Release clinging to thought, to silence thought, to live in reality without delusion.

Thought is change, change is detected by movement. One thought only, that does not move to another thought, is no change.
How do you know all this stuff about perception, delusion, what other people experience and do not, and what thought is (all thought it seems, not just yours)?

How did you acquire all this knowledge via delusion? including that of the workings of other minds and their contents? What makes you so sure your conclusions about reality apply to others if you are in delusion?
I just noticed your response.

Well, I can't say for sure that your conclusions concerning my conclusions are wholly accurate, however, as was mentioned, clinging is the gist. To have delusions is not the gist. Everyone has delusions, or what you call, being in delusion. However, being in delusion is clinging to delusion, and clinging is the gist from which you veer. Not everyone clings to delusion. Thus, not everyone is "in" delusion, or as you say, "being in delusion."

Is that a problem?
Walker
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Re: We are living in simulating reality

Post by Walker »

Sculptor wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 1:14 pm
Walker wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 12:42 pm
Sculptor wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 9:54 pm

Whether or not you chose to call it delusion, illusion, perception there is not doubt that we all "see" the world is different ways. This is because we cannot directly have access to reality.
No one sees exactly what is there. One can detract from Kant as much as one chooses but he was right about that.
Choice is not a factor, since folks do as they must ... such as overlook the gist.

Do you or Kant have a comment about clinging to perception, or the beliefs generated by clinging to perception? Clinging is the gist that can be referenced moment-to-moment, since it's not dependent on abstract notions of reality, or words in a book, plus everyone in their own, "different" way, knows of the Clingons.
Gibberish.
Are you trying to make a point?
The point that you in particular make, through what evidence of your perception and comprehension that you manage to squeak out, is that you do cling to your delusions, i.e., live in delusion, and this is evidenced by your predictability, or rather, a manifest inability to intellectually engage with what lies outside the safety of the accumulated bric-a-brac stored in the attic.

Perhaps the impact of caps as a written pointer to significance upon the message has been dulled, if not corrupted, by repetition.

If you have allowed yourself to be so influenced by CAP corruption, then recognize that as choiceless clinging.

It's akin to wet sand or cement clinging to theories and turning them into clod-hoppers. (The mixed metaphor also works with, Claude hoppers.)

Just working within your capacity, that you managed to transmit.
Walker
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Re: We are living in simulating reality

Post by Walker »

If it is not a problem
Then obviously

It cannot be a simulation.
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Sculptor
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Re: We are living in simulating reality

Post by Sculptor »

bahman wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 10:38 pm
Sculptor wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 10:35 pm
bahman wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 10:18 pm
All we need to know and agree on is that there is a motion.
I had one in the loo this morning. Is that a help?
Did you watch it or did experience it another way around!? :mrgreen:
I flushed before I alighted, so the existence of the motion is speculative.
Walker
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Re: We are living in simulating reality

Post by Walker »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 5:18 am So no minds, no motion.
Ultimately, perhaps. Individually, the motion of thought accesses mind. More energy, more motion, more thought, more access to mind, more ways to fix problems of the body. Less energy has predictable results. This is why depressed folks are slobs around the house. No energy.
Walker
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Re: We are living in simulating reality

Post by Walker »

Sculptor wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 8:43 am
bahman wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 10:38 pm
Sculptor wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 10:35 pm

I had one in the loo this morning. Is that a help?
Did you watch it or did experience it another way around!? :mrgreen:
I flushed before I alighted, so the existence of the motion is speculative.
As usual, you're talking shit.

Just sayin'.

:lol:
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