You never happened.

So what's really going on?

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surreptitious57
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Re: You never happened.

Post by surreptitious57 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:38 pm

The knower is the one who is self aware and possesses knowledge of themselves
They are not the manifestation of the unknown but a mind that knows what it is

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Dontaskme
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Re: You never happened.

Post by Dontaskme » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:58 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:38 pm
The knower is the one who is self aware and possesses knowledge of themselves
They are not the manifestation of the unknown but a mind that knows what it is
A very nice description of the knower...now tell me what does the knower look like? ...Has this one been seen?

jayjacobus
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Re: You never happened.

Post by jayjacobus » Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:39 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:58 pm
surreptitious57 wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:38 pm
The knower is the one who is self aware and possesses knowledge of themselves
They are not the manifestation of the unknown but a mind that knows what it is
A very nice description of the knower...now tell me what does the knower look like? ...Has this one been seen?
Of course the knower hasn't been seen. He/she/it is an abstraction. But I am not abstract to me. You miss the point.

Objectivity is not the point. Compatible subjectivity is the point. The more compatible we are, the more our subjectivity supervenes on the real.

Why complicate, the simple?

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Arising_uk
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Re: You never happened.

Post by Arising_uk » Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:32 am

Dontaskme wrote:And I'm amazed you've managed to go through your entire life not realising death is just a known conceptual idea in your consciousness, and that concepts can't die because they are not actual living things that are alive. ...
They die with the body that has them but they survive if they have been written down or communicated to another living thing.
Saying a body is dead would be like saying a coffee-table is dead.
But a coffee-table is dead, its a dead tree.

surreptitious57
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Re: You never happened.

Post by surreptitious57 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:31 am

Dontaskme wrote:
surreptitious57 wrote:
The knower is the one who is self aware and possesses knowledge of themselves
They are not the manifestation of the unknown but a mind that knows what it is
A very nice description of the knower ... now tell me what does the knower look like ? ... Has this one been seen ?
Yes the knowers have been seen because we are all each the physical manifestation of our own individual minds
There is no one single absolute knower but instead many which collectively make up all of human consciousness

surreptitious57
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Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:09 am

Re: You never happened.

Post by surreptitious57 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:41 am

The belief that there is an absolute knower exists as many conceptual ideas within human consciousness
Human minds have always had these conceptual ideas because they explain what they do not understand

surreptitious57
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Re: You never happened.

Post by surreptitious57 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:51 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Death is just a known conceptual idea within your consciousness

concepts cant die because they are not actual living things that are alive
Death can be perceived as a conceptual idea but it is really a phenomenon that exists in reality

Concepts require minds so when there are no more minds they will cease to exist too
They cannot exist in isolation because they need a mind to develop and mature from

jayjacobus
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Re: You never happened.

Post by jayjacobus » Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:05 am

"Hold my hand"

Hand is what it is,

or

Hand is what it does

or

Hand is what it represents.

What is death?

surreptitious57
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Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:09 am

Re: You never happened.

Post by surreptitious57 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:36 am

Death is the transition from consciousness to non consciousness
Just as life is the transition from non existence to consciousness

Everything is therefore a transition between different states - no more no less
Life and death are just different points on the same spectrum - no more no less

Death is also nothing to be afraid of since you cannot fear something you will never experience

surreptitious57
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Re: You never happened.

Post by surreptitious57 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:21 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
The belief that there is an absolute knower exists as many conceptual ideas within human consciousness
Human minds have always had these conceptual ideas because they explain what they do not understand
Rather they try [ and fail ] to explain what they do not understand as all metaphysical claims are unfalsifiable

jayjacobus
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Re: You never happened.

Post by jayjacobus » Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:39 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:36 am
Death is the transition from consciousness to non consciousness
Just as life is the transition from non existence to consciousness

Everything is therefore a transition between different states - no more no less
Life and death are just different points on the same spectrum - no more no less

Death is also nothing to be afraid of since you cannot fear something you will never experience
I have issues with clarity some times.

Happen is or happen does or happen represents.

What's happenning here?

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Dontaskme
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Re: You never happened.

Post by Dontaskme » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:40 pm

Arising_uk wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:32 am
Dontaskme wrote:And I'm amazed you've managed to go through your entire life not realising death is just a known conceptual idea in your consciousness, and that concepts can't die because they are not actual living things that are alive. ...
They die with the body that has them but they survive if they have been written down or communicated to another living thing.
The body is a concept known (information) but not known by the concept itself...you as awareness is aware of the body, but is not the body as awareness has never been born or died, only a concept is born and can die..and concepts are not real...But You Awareness is real right now and knows every concept as when they arise and fall in you.


Arising_uk wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:32 am
But a coffee-table is dead, its a dead tree.
A tree doesn't exist apart from awareness, it's an imaginary image of the imageless faceless awareness.

Awareness has no face, it's face is seen in it's reflection..the conceptual image reflecting back at it's imageless self.

Death and Life are the same reality, they just differ in appearance, one is seen/known the other is unseen/known. Awareness is a two way mirror reflecting itself alone.


( “Thou cannot see My face, for there shall no man see Me and live.”Exodus 33:20 )


.

jayjacobus
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Re: You never happened.

Post by jayjacobus » Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:05 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:40 pm

Death and Life are the same reality, they just differ in appearance, one is seen/known the other is unseen/known. Awareness is a two way mirror reflecting itself alone.


( “Thou cannot see My face, for there shall no man see Me and live.”Exodus 33:20 )


.

Are these two independent statements or is there a connection? Have you ordered them in a logical way?

There is no logical way.

Ramu
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Re: You never happened.

Post by Ramu » Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:15 pm

jayjacobus wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:05 pm
Dontaskme wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:40 pm

Death and Life are the same reality, they just differ in appearance, one is seen/known the other is unseen/known. Awareness is a two way mirror reflecting itself alone.


( “Thou cannot see My face, for there shall no man see Me and live.”Exodus 33:20 )


.

Are these two independent statements or is there a connection? Have you ordered them in a logical way?

There is no logical way.
Jay, are you saying that the universe is rational and logical? Because if indeed you are, wouldn't that merely be a metaphysical assumption?

jayjacobus
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Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:45 pm

Re: You never happened.

Post by jayjacobus » Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:32 pm

I did not say "universe" nor did I say "rational" nor did I say "assumption" nor did I say "metaphysical".

You may be confused but I think you are confusing.

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