There is no proof that separate identity exists.

So what's really going on?

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Impenitent
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Re: There is no proof that separate identity exists.

Post by Impenitent » Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:08 pm

no, there is no guarantee of future nows...

-Imp

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Dontaskme
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Re: There is no proof that separate identity exists.

Post by Dontaskme » Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:41 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:26 pm
Dontaskme wrote:
There is only NOW
What happens to the NOW that is no longer NOW. NOW might be eternal and all that is experienced but each NOW only exists
for an infintesimal period of time before being replaced by another NOW and the process is endlessly repeated for all of time
There is no NOW because there is no other than NOW.

NOW is all there is. Where else do you happen?

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Dontaskme
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Re: There is no proof that separate identity exists.

Post by Dontaskme » Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:41 pm

Impenitent wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:08 pm
no, there is no guarantee of future nows...

-Imp
Razors edge of creation.

surreptitious57
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Re: There is no proof that separate identity exists.

Post by surreptitious57 » Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:41 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
I am not living in solitude I am solitude. Meaning nothing bothers me any more peoples opinions and actions are like water off a ducks back. I love company just as long as they do not cross into my personal space by expecting me to give them something for I have nothing to give anyone they them self cannot give to them self .... obviously if they were in need of medical assistance I would help by phoning a hospital or if they had run
out of sugar or needed some money .. of course I would help out. That is just how life operates. Dont get me wrong here
I am trying to get where you are. I avoid people most of the time so experience solitude on a regular basis. I know that any ones opinion of me is none of my business. But I am not entirely where I want to be. I want to be able to communicate only when absolutely necessary but silence can be mistaken for rudeness and so I feel I have to fill in the gaps. And I tend to repeat myself. These are two areas I am trying to improve on. They are minor niggles but I still want them addressed. The big stuff is totally sorted. I have no fear of death and so I will accept it unreservedly when the time comes. Dying may be painful but I will cross that bridge if I ever come to it but death itself does not bother me as one can not be afraid of some thing one is never going to experience. I also am no longer in awe of money regardless of quantity. I am slowly becoming less susceptible to shock or surprise as time goes on. I am definitely more detached than I have ever been which both psychologically and philosophically is where I want to be for my final days. So my journey is not yet complete but I know that I am on the right path

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Dontaskme
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Re: There is no proof that separate identity exists.

Post by Dontaskme » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:24 am

GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:05 pm

Nope you need to rethink your ideas.
There is no thinker, there are only ideas about a thinker. Thoughts cannot be re-thought, they are spontaneously arising here now nowhere. You do not have ideas, you are an idea.

A person, or life, is a collection of data, a data set.
GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:05 pm
You have no idea if solipism is not real, and you have no idea if reincarnation is real. Maybe reincarnation is real, and solipism is false, but that some people are p-zombies, maybe only some humans are sentient but not all.

Thus, you are not the notsentient humans, their inner lives do not exist at any point in time, you do not have access to their data sets, because you are not connected via reincarnation.
Exactly.

All just ideas...what exactly is an idea? ...I've no idea.

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Dontaskme
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Re: There is no proof that separate identity exists.

Post by Dontaskme » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:35 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:41 pm
Dontaskme wrote:
I am not living in solitude I am solitude. Meaning nothing bothers me any more peoples opinions and actions are like water off a ducks back. I love company just as long as they do not cross into my personal space by expecting me to give them something for I have nothing to give anyone they them self cannot give to them self .... obviously if they were in need of medical assistance I would help by phoning a hospital or if they had run
out of sugar or needed some money .. of course I would help out. That is just how life operates. Dont get me wrong here
I am trying to get where you are. I avoid people most of the time so experience solitude on a regular basis. I know that any ones opinion of me is none of my business. But I am not entirely where I want to be. I want to be able to communicate only when absolutely necessary but silence can be mistaken for rudeness and so I feel I have to fill in the gaps. And I tend to repeat myself. These are two areas I am trying to improve on. They are minor niggles but I still want them addressed. The big stuff is totally sorted. I have no fear of death and so I will accept it unreservedly when the time comes. Dying may be painful but I will cross that bridge if I ever come to it but death itself does not bother me as one can not be afraid of some thing one is never going to experience. I also am no longer in awe of money regardless of quantity. I am slowly becoming less susceptible to shock or surprise as time goes on. I am definitely more detached than I have ever been which both psychologically and philosophically is where I want to be for my final days. So my journey is not yet complete but I know that I am on the right path
I hear you loud and clear and I too went through a stage of feeling like I was permanently stuck in a groove unable to find a way out. It took me ages to see perfect clarity, even though I had been experiencing many nondual glimpses from the age of 7

If you too are to see perfect clarity ..you will... only when life evolves that in you and not before. If it's meant to happen it will. Life does that, not the individual. The individual doesn't do anything, it only thinks it does.

Thanks for being open and sharing the more vulnerable side of your personality. I like you surreptitious57

Death and Life is not an experience. We will never know death, only life is known in relation to unknown death, and this amazing recognition points to the nondual reality that is life living itself.

.

The body mind mechanism that is surreptitious57 is just one of a multitude of unique experiences infinite consciousness is having as and through that vehicle.

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Eodnhoj7
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Re: There is no proof that separate identity exists.

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:31 pm

b
GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:05 pm
Dontaskme wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:06 am
Those who believe they exist as a separate ''me'' are living a lie.
There is no person or thing living life.

And that's the only truth there is, the truth that there is no truth.
Nope you need to rethink your ideas.

A person, or life, is a collection of data, a data set.

But all sets requires further set to exist with the summation being 1 set itself.


You have no idea if solipism is not real, and you have no idea if reincarnation is real. Maybe reincarnation is real, and solipism is false, but that some people are p-zombies, maybe only some humans are sentient but not all.

Based upon that logic you have no idea if the person has no idea, because how could you know if a person has no idea?

Thus, you are not the notsentient humans, their inner lives do not exist at any point in time, you do not have access to their data sets, because you are not connected via reincarnation.

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Dontaskme
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Re: There is no proof that separate identity exists.

Post by Dontaskme » Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:26 pm

Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:31 pm
b
GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:05 pm
Dontaskme wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:06 am
Those who believe they exist as a separate ''me'' are living a lie.
There is no person or thing living life.

And that's the only truth there is, the truth that there is no truth.
Nope you need to rethink your ideas.

A person, or life, is a collection of data, a data set.

But all sets requires further set to exist with the summation being 1 set itself.


You have no idea if solipism is not real, and you have no idea if reincarnation is real. Maybe reincarnation is real, and solipism is false, but that some people are p-zombies, maybe only some humans are sentient but not all.

Based upon that logic you have no idea if the person has no idea, because how could you know if a person has no idea?

Thus, you are not the notsentient humans, their inner lives do not exist at any point in time, you do not have access to their data sets, because you are not connected via reincarnation.
Genius.

Who let the genie out of the bottle..who,who? ...I've no idea except my idea. :wink:

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Eodnhoj7
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Re: There is no proof that separate identity exists.

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:47 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:26 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:31 pm
b
GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:05 pm


Nope you need to rethink your ideas.

A person, or life, is a collection of data, a data set.

But all sets requires further set to exist with the summation being 1 set itself.


You have no idea if solipism is not real, and you have no idea if reincarnation is real. Maybe reincarnation is real, and solipism is false, but that some people are p-zombies, maybe only some humans are sentient but not all.

Based upon that logic you have no idea if the person has no idea, because how could you know if a person has no idea?

Thus, you are not the notsentient humans, their inner lives do not exist at any point in time, you do not have access to their data sets, because you are not connected via reincarnation.
Genius.

Who let the genie out of the bottle..who,who? ...I've no idea except my idea. :wink:

The fundamental axiom of rationality, as proportion conducive to spatial symmetry, is that reason is simultaneously circular and linear.

1) Circular reasoning provides a form of justification by referring back to its original premise axioms and justifying them not only in form, but also function. Linear reasoning cannot do this without further individuating the original axiom into branches.

2) Linear reasoning allows for an extension from the original premise axiom in which the axiom can individuate into further axioms, therefore extending the original axiom to axioms (emphasis on the plurality) that give relations hence further definition. In these respects, the multiplicity results into an linearism "alternating" in manner in which these axioms further circulate between each other to bind them as one.

3) This alternation of linear axioms, as a form of circularity dependent on linear qualities as "frequency through polarity", not only allows a synthesis of further axioms through a degree of dualistic polarity but simultaneously gives the boundaries to the axioms themselves. In simpler terms, a dualism observe the limits of the axioms through the other axiom, which in turn unifies the polar axioms as phenomena in themselves but simultaneously seperates them. In these respects linear reasoning acts as a boundary of individuation in which a reality is unified as a unit relative to other units while separate. Relativistic thinking is dependent upon a strict linearism as the form and function do not mirror eachother.

4) In a separate respect, circular reasoning observes the means as the everpresent beginning and ends in which the means itself is the objective. In these respects what we understand of a median points, through means, is ever present cause through the mirroring of symmetry in which symmetry mirror further symmetry while simultaneously mirroring the origins and maintaining them for what they are as origins. In these respects the original premise axioms is always ever present in both form and function.

5) Linear reasoning exists as the limit of circular reasoning in the respect is observes a process of individuation in which axioms are multiplied and divided into parts through observeing an absence of dimensionality within the axioms. In simpler terms if I connect a set of axioms, through a linear format, I approximate them which in turn ceases any dimensionality between the two axioms (because the line observes a cessation of difference between them) while simultaneously forming them into a new axiom in itself. In these respects the axioms become logistic unit-particulate (or atoms) which must relate to other logistic unit-particulate (or atoms) in order to exist through a process of change.

The problem occurs in the respect that this problem of change causes the very same problem it seeks to avoid: change. Hence the simultaneously circular reasoning justifies the axioms for what they are: as ever present causal extensions of eachother as "1".

6) In these respects what we understand of circular reasoning is unity and linear reasoning as multiplicity, with linear reasoning being the limit of circular reasoning as finite units and circular reasoning being the limit of the finite units as infinite unity.


Trixies argument failed, not because of the content, but because it was unable to maintain a reflective symmetry with its original premise. In simpler terms Trixie must reflect upon what he is saying. Other than that criticism, which is not only necessary but an observation of problems in foundation, he did make some important points...it is just that the methodology contradicted itself.

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Dontaskme
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Re: There is no proof that separate identity exists.

Post by Dontaskme » Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:39 am

I agree Eodnhoj7

And thanks for the great essays of amazing clarity.

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Arising_uk
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Re: There is no proof that separate identity exists.

Post by Arising_uk » Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:39 pm

:lol:

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A_Seagull
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Re: There is no proof that separate identity exists.

Post by A_Seagull » Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:58 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:06 am
Those who believe they exist as a separate ''me'' are living a lie.
An assumed separate ''me'' existence is just a belief energetically generated by the phenomena known as the senses. What 'knows' the senses is only ever 'not-knowing awareness'. There is only ONE (thing) aware of the senses, and that is awareness itself which is not a thing...there is no room for any ''other thing'' to make the 'knowing' approach. Knowing is only ever 'one with the knowing' itself inseparably one. That is the only SELF there is.

The sensor and the sensed are inseparably one in the exact same instant totally unclaimed. There is simply no room for any other thing to claim that instant. The feeler and the sensation of feeling are the same one...appearing as if two, where in that exact instant the not-knowing is instantly known generating the illusion of other as the (unborn) awareness becomes aware(born)..and the sense of ''other'' is born, but that sense of other is a simulation it has no existence in and of itself.

A sensation felt and the cause of that sensation are instantaneous in the same moment. For example: the seeing and the seen are inseparably one in the same instant, there is no world out-there separate from the perceiver here. There is no THERE separate from HERE...separation are just illusory ideas.

These sense of ''me'' existence can only exist as a past tense aka memory which does not exist in this immediate realtime unborn presence NOW. Now is only ever this blank inane immediate not-knowing aliveness living itself aka unborn awareness.

Knowing anything is always a reflection of an event that's already taken place, the sense of ''me'' is an appearance of that reflection aka memory appearing in the same one awareness as if the event that's already happened is happening now artificially creating the illusion of a separate ''me'' existing now. It's a self-sustaining feedback loop constantly feeding itself giving continuity to the sense of the separate ''me'' - but it's an illusion because this ''me'' is a fictional artificially created character created by the ONE AWARENESS aware of itself only via memory which is dead...the sense of ''other'' is an illusion, it does not exist, it's a parasite along for the free ride.


There is no person or thing living life.

And that's the only truth there is, the truth that there is no truth.
You seem to be living in a world of words where reality has no meaning.

I suggest you try the obverse.

odysseus
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Re: There is no proof that separate identity exists.

Post by odysseus » Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:49 pm

Only one way to establish personal identity, and that is through the ethical dimension of our being here. The harm one person experiences is that person's harm (or joy, and so forth) exclusively. Torture me and it is not some floating body of incidentals tagged "mine" but is the Real that is in the fabric of the world. This grounds the abstractions of identity in the world and makes my being me a palpable existential event in time.

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Dontaskme
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Re: There is no proof that separate identity exists.

Post by Dontaskme » Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:03 am

odysseus wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:49 pm
Only one way to establish personal identity, and that is through the ethical dimension of our being here. The harm one person experiences is that person's harm (or joy, and so forth) exclusively. Torture me and it is not some floating body of incidentals tagged "mine" but is the Real that is in the fabric of the world. This grounds the abstractions of identity in the world and makes my being me a palpable existential event in time.
Yes I agree.

It's because the energy that expresses as the human experience has the capacity for language and thought - for being able to distinguish and make comparisons - to be aware we are aware..self-aware...and to be able to watch our thoughts appear and disappear...it's those thoughts that divide the Nondual reality that is life into duality.

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