DELIBERATION AND REASON by Richard Baron

[tbieter]

Having had my surgery for cataracts, today, in celebration, I began reading Richard's new book. http://www.rbphilo.com/deliberation.html

I hope to discuss the book with other readers under this thread.

[Richard Baron]

Hello Tom

I am very glad that your surgery was successful.

I shall wait until a few comments have accumulated, and then respond as best I can.

[duszek]

Hello Tom,

please tell us what new insights the book has given you so that the rest of us can share it vicariously.
Not everyone can read everything.
I read a huge volume on Philosophy of Language and Umberto Eco in Italian. I might contribute something later on, if I see an interesting connection.

[tbieter]

Hello Tom,

please tell us what new insights the book has given you so that the rest of us can share it vicariously.
Not everyone can read everything.
I read a huge volume on Philosophy of Language and Umberto Eco in Italian. I might contribute something later on, if I see an interesting connection.

I will do so.

[mhoraine]

Hello Tom,

please tell us what new insights the book has given you so that the rest of us can share it vicariously.
Not everyone can read everything.
I read a huge volume on Philosophy of Language and Umberto Eco in Italian. I might contribute something later on, if I see an interesting connection.

Hi duszek

Yes, not everyone can read everything ! Richard points out ( p141 ) that ' we cannot instantaneously jump around the Universe in order to perceive or act on different things. Such limitations give us a practical sense of what it is to be a physical being....'
and there's more....
all under the heading of 4.3 'Self-consciousness' in Ch 4 Rational Action.
What with 4.1 being ' From the inner to the outer ' and 4.5 's ' Choice ' - I get the feeling that this might link and connect to almost anything you can think of. Nuffink like a bit of 'intertextuality'....

Speaking of which, make a girl happy - spare her even more world-wide hoopings, share your thoughts on Umberto Eco ? Your choice
And may be our gain. One cannot always know the effects of interweaving. Go on, dizzy me silly !

M.

[mhoraine]

Hi Richard

I note you have a massive bibliography. What infuriates me....slightly.....is that I see Pirsig's ' Lila' mentioned, but how to find her....you have no Index !!! was that Deliberate ?

Having said that - your book is exceptionally pleasing to the eye, and the Contents page spells out clearly what you are going to cover - most masterful.

Congrats, again !

M.

PS Sorry, Tom....I'll let you get on with the Heavy Stuff....hope your eyes have recovered and all is light and bright !

[Richard Baron]

What infuriates me....slightly.....is that I see Pirsig's ' Lila' mentioned, but how to find her....you have no Index !!! was that Deliberate ?

Thanks for the congrats.

The lack of index reflects the view that the names are not really the things worth tracking down, and that it is hard to find useful one-word terms for the concepts. But perhaps this was a mistake.

Lila gets a mention on page 155.

[mhoraine]

R : Lila gets a mention on page 155.

M : Capital, Tx

[duszek]

Hi M.

it is "L´isola del giorno prima" (the island of the previous day), a novel about a young man, Roberto, who saves himself on a deserted ship, which happens to be full with food, and which is close to two islands, but Roberto cannot swim and there is no extra boat on the ship. A very strange situation to be in, full of limitations too. He writes a love letter to the lady of his heart, knowing that the letter will probably never reach her. I am still in the first chapter, I use the German version as reference. I hope for some philosophical input to come yet, which can be connected to deliberation and reason.

I could apply Mr. Baron´s insights about deliberation and reason to Roberto´s doings and thinking, if someone tells me what they are.

Roberto is terribly scared of rats but takes some weapons and decides to inspect the ship´s interior. He wants to look the terrible truth in the eye, probably. Is this reasonable ? If he discovers none of them or only a few he may sleep better.

[mhoraine]

Hi duszek

Thank you for that - this discussion could be SO juicy ! I'm sure Richard will have read this book, no ?

I have only had a quick scurry around the web-deck but found this :
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Pascalian ... a089812891

in which Umberto is quoted as saying that it is about contradictions ; he doesn't impose a conclusion - there is no conclusion - there are many possible conclusions. The readers are free to choose, or to decide there is no possible choice. Doesn't this remind you of Kierkegaard's 'Either/Or ' ?!

A choice choice.

PS I don't think my beginner's Italian is up to the job. If you are only on the first chapter - I wonder if it might be an idea to write a parallel thread....in italiano ??!!!!

[duszek]

Umberto is my favourite Italian writer, his style is simple and clear, only sometimes he is a little bit crude.
Last summer I read "Il pendulo di Foucault", it was about secret societies, free masons and others.
The main character Casaubon was getting over-excited mentally by making associations in order to uncover the secrets of the secret societies.
If you follow a line of reasoning far enough and if you have an active imagination you can end up with crazy conclusions and the only solution is that a good friend cools you down.

I remember one statement: Sono diventato invincibile nelle catene associative. = I became invincible in associative chains.

How much deliberation is good for one ?
Shall we restrain ourselves and not deliberate too freely ?
Is our own reason able to tell us when to stop a crazy line of reasoning ?

If you want to practice your Italian try www.riflessioni.it, but they have high standards and will not let your posts pass if the quality of your Italian is not good enough.

[duszek]

How are you progressing with the book, Tom ?
I insist that we not give up too soon.
(unambiguously subjunctive, negation of the present subjunctive does not require an operator)

I have realized that I first need to study Greenbaum´s and Quirk´s "A Student´s Grammar of the English Language".
I am on page 50, out of 475.

But then I will read "Deliberation and Reason" and ask intelligent questions.

I werde dann in der Lage sein, die Gedanken des Autors zu rezipieren und intelligente Fragen zu stellen.

[tbieter]

How are you progressing with the book, Tom ?
I insist that we not give up too soon.
(unambiguously subjunctive, negation of the present subjunctive does not require an operator)

I have realized that I first need to study Greenbaum´s and Quirk´s "A Student´s Grammar of the English Language".
I am on page 50, out of 475.

But then I will read "Deliberation and Reason" and ask intelligent questions.

I werde dann in der Lage sein, die Gedanken des Autors zu rezipieren und intelligente Fragen zu stellen.

My progress is slow. I'm still on the first chapter. Give up? Never! I read more than one book at a time and I've been on an Etienne Gilson trip.