Hi everyone. Thanks for all your posts, they're sooo interesting and such a good distraction from all the work I'm meant to be doing... eek
NS
they exemplify the qualities he deems "good."
And they are good because they can do great things with society, and be great in themselves?... But does he explain why he ascribes the word “great” to certain qualities in individuals and societies? Or is he more saying- take these great people and let us see what great things they can do with society?
NS
Is it always the case that you wish to share empathetically?
I think it’s good to try to experience many emotions and thoughts, even negative ones, as long as you can also pull yourself out of them. Its good to understand how the religious fanatic feels towards infidels, but after feeling it and thinking through that position, we’d probably decide its not how we want to live all the time. It broadens your understanding to have gone through the process, I feel.
NS
if your standards & values are radically different from those of others (the herd), then necessarily your ability, and desire, to empathize is going to suffer
I don’t think you are unable to empathise well in this situation, although granted it may be considerably difficult. Empathiging should always aid your understanding, even of your own values, so should our leaders be eager to empathise? Of course, it doesn’t
always take emotional empathy to understand someone’s view point, but in general the world make a lot more sense when you can empathise with people.
S9
free spirits, aka the fellows who allow themselves to question everything, even what they themselves might finally think of as truth
In order to properly question everything in this way. Wouldn’t they need considerable empathy? Without empathy they can’t experience and understand everything TO question it. (aimed more at NS)
OK enough of empathy...
S9
What possibility for greatness do we have when cutting ourselves off at the knees?
I don’t agree with the way you approach the question of wholeness and greatness. We have conflicting potentials e.g. the capacity to do great harm, and the capacity to be extremely loving and peaceful. We’re not “cutting ourselves off at the knees” if we chose the second. We are simply choosing one path in life over another. And then…
S9
We must use all of ourselves
There is no reason that just because we have a certain characteristic, it should be in any way a beneficial characteristic. Some may well be degenerative, so I don't think that overcoming them makes us less great, or even less whole. It simply changes the way we develop.
NS/N
"A great man, did you say? All I ever see is the actor creating his own ideal image." (BG&E 97)
But isn’t it better to try to find an ideal image to work towards, rather than blindly following our every instinct and inclination? Additionally, as soon as we are making a conscious, purposeful decision about how to act, we have to have SOME end aim in mind, and so in some way isn’t this always going to be our “ideal image”?
S9
Can we pull down the mind, while associating ourselves as that being who is living within the mind?... Where is he standing while pulling the mind down, and is he not holding on to that particular spot?
NS "
Starting over" isn't an option, since both the "scrapping," and the "starting," would themselves be performed by an incurably conventional infected mind.
I agree… and I would like to hear your opinion on what is “the end tool for discovering ultimate truth” if not the mind? And what sort of truth are you talking about hear?
“It is because you are looking at my finger, instead of where I am pointing.”
S9
Is Fred not coming right out and telling us everything we need to know, but rather telling us where to start looking?
I think this is in part what he’s doing. But I think his style is how it is because he doesn’t feel the need to draw a logical argument for everything- a lot of it is actually more descriptive than argumentative. I get the impression that he’s cutting away the drapes that the herd has hung in the way of the true picture of humanity, and in doing so making the "truth" available for us to see... Yes, maybe just so we know that it's there, where it was previously hidden, should we decide to look.
S9
Ideas as a road, rather than a destination.
I reckon that practically, this is realistic… but don’t we all really want to form beliefs that are true? Where is our motivation for attempting to improve our beliefs if we accept that they are never going to be valid? I realise that’s not a rational argument for not accepting that position, but is it an emotional response that we can overcome by seeing the true destination? What is that destination, in your opinion?
And please can I steal this quote for my signiture?
"Every time you cling to something to stop yourself from falling, understand that it is falling too"
Merci, sorry it's so long and unhelpful for all but me...
Sally
