The Conscious Mind by David Chalmers

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HexHammer
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Re: The Conscious Mind by David Chalmers

Post by HexHammer » Mon Dec 12, 2016 11:38 pm

Greta wrote:
HexHammer wrote:He starts off saying the list of things that consciousness are like pain, hunger, memories, orgasms, I wouldn't say that memories in itself are consciousness, since then a hard drive on a computer are consciousness, which is nonsense, and neither does neurologists describe memories as consciousness, but through our consciousness we can access memories and store new experiences.

Orgasms can be achieved on a headless bodies, but the mind can experience orgasms, thus again and again he's just babbling random incoherent things that you fools fall flat on your faces for!
Orgasm, I agree, is basic. However, while memories may be unconscious, as in digital and cellular memory (also organs apparently maintain some memory too), memories can also be conscious, eg. deliberate recall.

I approach philosophy like I approach music - I have no problem with trivial sloppiness if the major concepts are of interest. The "hard problem" was a useful articulation of the explanatory gap between the patterns of neuronal firing and a subjective sense of being. His "philosophical zombie" concept has implications regarding the prospect of general AI eventually passing the Turing Test.
No, most memories are dormant and not active, else we would be barraged with all kinds of irrelevant memories, and there's different long term and short term memories, therefore it's nonsense. Besides people meditating can empty their their mind for any thoughts and still be conscious.

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Greta
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Re: The Conscious Mind by David Chalmers

Post by Greta » Tue Dec 13, 2016 12:49 am

HexHammer wrote:
Greta wrote:
HexHammer wrote:He starts off saying the list of things that consciousness are like pain, hunger, memories, orgasms, I wouldn't say that memories in itself are consciousness, since then a hard drive on a computer are consciousness, which is nonsense, and neither does neurologists describe memories as consciousness, but through our consciousness we can access memories and store new experiences.

Orgasms can be achieved on a headless bodies, but the mind can experience orgasms, thus again and again he's just babbling random incoherent things that you fools fall flat on your faces for!
Orgasm, I agree, is basic. However, while memories may be unconscious, as in digital and cellular memory (also organs apparently maintain some memory too), memories can also be conscious, eg. deliberate recall.

I approach philosophy like I approach music - I have no problem with trivial sloppiness if the major concepts are of interest. The "hard problem" was a useful articulation of the explanatory gap between the patterns of neuronal firing and a subjective sense of being. His "philosophical zombie" concept has implications regarding the prospect of general AI eventually passing the Turing Test.
No, most memories are dormant and not active, else we would be barraged with all kinds of irrelevant memories, and there's different long term and short term memories, therefore it's nonsense. Besides people meditating can empty their their mind for any thoughts and still be conscious.
This was a TED talk, communicating concepts with a mind to the many laypersons in the audience. So he was loose with his language (besides, it's logical to interpret his comment as the experience of memories, not the storage, which is an aspect of processing, not of subjective experience). Still, Chalmers provides some useful general concepts, as mentioned previously.

HexHammer
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Re: The Conscious Mind by David Chalmers

Post by HexHammer » Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:50 am

Greta wrote:Still, Chalmers provides some useful general concepts, as mentioned previously.
..useful? ..which are?

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Greta
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Re: The Conscious Mind by David Chalmers

Post by Greta » Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:32 am

HexHammer wrote:
Greta wrote:Still, Chalmers provides some useful general concepts, as mentioned previously.
..useful? ..which are?

Ginkgo
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Re: The Conscious Mind by David Chalmers

Post by Ginkgo » Tue Dec 13, 2016 9:27 am

HexHammer wrote:
Ginkgo wrote:
HexHammer wrote:And what job might that be that doesn't allow me to comprehend Chalmers?
I've asked you here in this thread, apparently it's so bad that you couldn't answer my question.
I clean windows for a living. You have a problem with that?

Ginkgo
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Re: The Conscious Mind by David Chalmers

Post by Ginkgo » Tue Dec 13, 2016 9:39 am

HexHammer wrote: He argued about consciousness with words like: "space, time, mass" how do they relate to consciousness?
What Chalmers is saying is that space, time and mass are fundamental for an explanation of the universe. In a similar way he is saying that consciousness might also be subject to analysis through fundamental principles. He is NOT saying that space,time and mass explains consciousness, he is providing us with an analogy.

HexHammer
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Re: The Conscious Mind by David Chalmers

Post by HexHammer » Tue Dec 13, 2016 9:54 am

Ginkgo wrote:
HexHammer wrote:
Ginkgo wrote:
I've asked you here in this thread, apparently it's so bad that you couldn't answer my question.
I clean windows for a living. You have a problem with that?
That would explain your skill of reasoning.

HexHammer
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Re: The Conscious Mind by David Chalmers

Post by HexHammer » Tue Dec 13, 2016 9:57 am

Ginkgo wrote:
HexHammer wrote: He argued about consciousness with words like: "space, time, mass" how do they relate to consciousness?
What Chalmers is saying is that space, time and mass are fundamental for an explanation of the universe. In a similar way he is saying that consciousness might also be subject to analysis through fundamental principles. He is NOT saying that space,time and mass explains consciousness, he is providing us with an analogy.
You don't know what you are talking about, if he knew anything about physics, he wouldn't use such terms as they are extremely complex to comprehend fully, as things begins to become relative, unmeasurable and incomprehensible for normal people, why his analogy is useless and more misleading than leading.

Ginkgo
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Re: The Conscious Mind by David Chalmers

Post by Ginkgo » Tue Dec 13, 2016 10:27 am

HexHammer wrote:
Ginkgo wrote:
HexHammer wrote:I've asked you here in this thread, apparently it's so bad that you couldn't answer my question.
I clean windows for a living. You have a problem with that?
That would explain your skill of reasoning.
You idiot, what do you think someone like me does for a living? I teach philosophy and science.
Last edited by Ginkgo on Tue Dec 13, 2016 10:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

Ginkgo
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Re: The Conscious Mind by David Chalmers

Post by Ginkgo » Tue Dec 13, 2016 10:29 am

HexHammer wrote:
Ginkgo wrote:
HexHammer wrote: He argued about consciousness with words like: "space, time, mass" how do they relate to consciousness?
What Chalmers is saying is that space, time and mass are fundamental for an explanation of the universe. In a similar way he is saying that consciousness might also be subject to analysis through fundamental principles. He is NOT saying that space,time and mass explains consciousness, he is providing us with an analogy.
You don't know what you are talking about, if he knew anything about physics, he wouldn't use such terms as they are extremely complex to comprehend fully, as things begins to become relative, unmeasurable and incomprehensible for normal people, why his analogy is useless and more misleading than leading.
You asked a question and I provided the answer.

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Terrapin Station
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Re: The Conscious Mind by David Chalmers

Post by Terrapin Station » Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:00 am

HexHammer wrote:
Terrapin Station wrote:In other words, you don't actually know what circularity conventionally refers to. Little surprise that.
Explain please, you just can't say I don't understand anything without explaining why
First off, sure I can do that, especially if you feel I did it. You'd say that I just did it, after all.

Of course, you'd not be saying that "literally" it's not possible for me to do that, but that I shouldn't do it for some reason, but I'm not a fan of normatives for their own sake.

At any rate the reason I said this is simply that it's clear as day from comments you've made. You have no understanding of what the conventional definition of circularity is.

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Greta
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Re: The Conscious Mind by David Chalmers

Post by Greta » Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:41 am

Ginkgo wrote:
HexHammer wrote:
Ginkgo wrote:
I clean windows for a living. You have a problem with that?
That would explain your skill of reasoning.
You idiot, what do you think someone like me does for a living? I teach philosophy and science.
It must be hard to squeeze that in between all the window cleaning ;)

I'm happy to have a Hex-free chat about Chalmers. HH's views about DC are well enough documented.

HexHammer
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Re: The Conscious Mind by David Chalmers

Post by HexHammer » Tue Dec 13, 2016 12:02 pm

Ginkgo wrote:
HexHammer wrote:
Ginkgo wrote:
I clean windows for a living. You have a problem with that?
That would explain your skill of reasoning.
You idiot, what do you think someone like me does for a living? I teach philosophy and science.
So does many people, and can only make parrot speeches, not really think critically and abstract which those who earn more money typically can, as their reasoning skills typically are higher.

HexHammer
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Re: The Conscious Mind by David Chalmers

Post by HexHammer » Tue Dec 13, 2016 12:03 pm

Ginkgo wrote:You asked a question and I provided the answer.
True enough but it was imo a poor answer.

HexHammer
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Re: The Conscious Mind by David Chalmers

Post by HexHammer » Tue Dec 13, 2016 12:09 pm

Terrapin Station wrote:At any rate the reason I said this is simply that it's clear as day from comments you've made. You have no understanding of what the conventional definition of circularity is.
I think I've PLENTY of times proved that you have no deeper understanding of anything and I have superior understanding! You like most other people here can only do parrot speeches!

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