Greatest Explanation of "The Phenomenology of Spirit" ever

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Melchior
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Re: Greatest Explanation of "The Phenomenology of Spirit" ev

Post by Melchior »

The Voice of Time wrote:I know, that said Schopenhauer is not the kind of philosopher you take very seriously. He's a bit of an underdog in the history of philosophy in my opinion.
Maybe you don't, but you should. Hegel is nothing, not even worth dismissing.
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The Voice of Time
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Re: Greatest Explanation of "The Phenomenology of Spirit" ev

Post by The Voice of Time »

Now you are being childish and entirely subjective. Hegel is one of the most influential philosophers in the history of philosophy. Nobody ever showed up to Schopenhauer's lectures even, and reading his books and taking them seriously is dangerous for the human psyche because his ideas are destructive and misanthropic instead of constructive and philanthropic.
Melchior
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Re: Greatest Explanation of "The Phenomenology of Spirit" ev

Post by Melchior »

The Voice of Time wrote:Now you are being childish and entirely subjective. Hegel is one of the most influential philosophers in the history of philosophy. Nobody ever showed up to Schopenhauer's lectures even, and reading his books and taking them seriously is dangerous for the human psyche because his ideas are destructive and misanthropic instead of constructive and philanthropic.
I disagree, completely. Hegel was a charlatan, just as Schoppie said. Nietzsche took nothing from Hegel, but a lot from Schoppie.
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The Voice of Time
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Re: Greatest Explanation of "The Phenomenology of Spirit" ev

Post by The Voice of Time »

Nietzsche is a great philosopher, but surrounded by a huge club of Hegelians. The evidence speaks against you, it's not sufficient for you to say just "I disagree", it does not matter if you disagree, because you have no grounds to disagree on.
Melchior
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Re: Greatest Explanation of "The Phenomenology of Spirit" ev

Post by Melchior »

The Voice of Time wrote:Nietzsche is a great philosopher, but surrounded by a huge club of Hegelians. The evidence speaks against you, it's not sufficient for you to say just "I disagree", it does not matter if you disagree, because you have no grounds to disagree on.

Hegel is garbage, not even worth discussing.
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The Voice of Time
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Re: Greatest Explanation of "The Phenomenology of Spirit" ev

Post by The Voice of Time »

Why would you think he is garbage? You don't like the idea of the master-slave dialectic? His giant work on logic or the likelihood, as Michel Foucault has said, that "contemporary philosophers may be doomed to find Hegel waiting patiently at the end of whatever road we travel"? Hegel was a real giant which reshaped the world with his ideas by influencing his contemporaries as well as the large swath of future generations.

He influenced both those who thought he was right as well as those who thought he were wrong in all the things he worked on, because he introduced new ways of thinking and new perspectives for the masses of people to consider, and a positive understanding of the future which allows us to embrace change even when it opposes us.
Melchior
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Re: Greatest Explanation of "The Phenomenology of Spirit" ev

Post by Melchior »

The Voice of Time wrote:Why would you think he is garbage? You don't like the idea of the master-slave dialectic? His giant work on logic or the likelihood, as Michel Foucault has said, that "contemporary philosophers may be doomed to find Hegel waiting patiently at the end of whatever road we travel"? Hegel was a real giant which reshaped the world with his ideas by influencing his contemporaries as well as the large swath of future generations.

He influenced both those who thought he was right as well as those who thought he were wrong in all the things he worked on, because he introduced new ways of thinking and new perspectives for the masses of people to consider, and a positive understanding of the future which allows us to embrace change even when it opposes us.

As I have gotten older I have learned that a lot of philosophy is garbage, starting with Plato. (Remember, I have a degree in philosophy.) I am now almost ashamed to say that I have had any connection with philosophy. A lot of it is empty speculation. Academic philosophers today continue that tradition. Trying to talk to them about anything is frustrating because they know nothing but what this or that philosopher said. They have no grasp of facts, especially when it comes to language and translation. They just "make shit up' on the spot. They don't know how to use dictionaries or do even basic research. They are unacquainted with even basic empirical techniques and are unable to see when and where they are appropriate.

They seem to be ignorant of vast stretches of history, and always seek 'philosophical' rather than psychological or historical explanations for things.
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The Voice of Time
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Re: Greatest Explanation of "The Phenomenology of Spirit" ev

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Doesn't really seem to reflect my own experience of my own country and the discipline of philosophy there that has deep bonds with science. And neither in the states, where you have courses like these that I follow and view: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... 00B2930084

But traditionally in a philosophy course it is about asking questions, and for that you need philosophers, science is the attempt to answer the questions posed, and you need both separately so they can specialize, but also working together, and I think they do so quite a lot. If you're over 60 there's a probably a lot of years since you went to a university and it's probably changed a lot.
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Re: Greatest Explanation of "The Phenomenology of Spirit" ev

Post by uwot »

Melchior wrote:My point is that a native speaker of English will have a far more perfect grasp of the meaning of 'spirit' (an English word) than a non-native. When I tell you that 'phenomenology of spirit' is meaningless gibberish (because English speakers don't use 'spirit' that way), you can take that to the bank.
Then we are fortunate have a native speaker of English amongst us. Could you give us a perfect definition of spirit and of mind and then tell us why Hegel was talking only about the latter?
Melchior
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Re: Greatest Explanation of "The Phenomenology of Spirit" ev

Post by Melchior »

The Voice of Time wrote:Doesn't really seem to reflect my own experience of my own country and the discipline of philosophy there that has deep bonds with science. And neither in the states, where you have courses like these that I follow and view: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... 00B2930084

But traditionally in a philosophy course it is about asking questions, and for that you need philosophers, science is the attempt to answer the questions posed, and you need both separately so they can specialize, but also working together, and I think they do so quite a lot. If you're over 60 there's a probably a lot of years since you went to a university and it's probably changed a lot.
I deal with philosophers in my translation work, and it hasn't changed a bit. It's often awkward and painful. Their notions of translation are often naïve. All they know about translation is what they hear from other professors, who don't really know anything beyond what they learned from their predecessors.

Philosophers seem unaware of anything outside their own fields. They interact only with other philosophers at conferences, where they present papers that make minor points, and try to distinguish themselves from one another without seeming too far out of the mainstream or violating 'political correctness'.

What is most distressing is that questions that should be dealt with empirically are not.
Last edited by Melchior on Thu May 01, 2014 8:36 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Melchior
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Re: Greatest Explanation of "The Phenomenology of Spirit" ev

Post by Melchior »

uwot wrote:
Melchior wrote:My point is that a native speaker of English will have a far more perfect grasp of the meaning of 'spirit' (an English word) than a non-native. When I tell you that 'phenomenology of spirit' is meaningless gibberish (because English speakers don't use 'spirit' that way), you can take that to the bank.
Then we are fortunate have a native speaker of English amongst us. Could you give us a perfect definition of spirit and of mind and then tell us why Hegel was talking only about the latter?

I would suggest consulting the Century Dictionary for the answers to these questions.

http://www.global-language.com/CENTURY/

I don't really want to talk about Hegel. He's not worth the time.
uwot
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Re: Greatest Explanation of "The Phenomenology of Spirit" ev

Post by uwot »

Melchior wrote:I would suggest consulting the Century Dictionary for the answers to these questions.
Given that anyone can look up those definitions, contrary to your earlier assertion, there is no advantage to being a native speaker
Melchior wrote:I don't really want to talk about Hegel. He's not worth the time.
But evidently we are.
Melchior
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Re: Greatest Explanation of "The Phenomenology of Spirit" ev

Post by Melchior »

uwot wrote:
Melchior wrote:I would suggest consulting the Century Dictionary for the answers to these questions.
Given that anyone can look up those definitions, contrary to your earlier assertion, there is no advantage to being a native speaker
Melchior wrote:I don't really want to talk about Hegel. He's not worth the time.
But evidently we are.
I certainly am not. I'm talking about language and translation.
uwot
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Re: Greatest Explanation of "The Phenomenology of Spirit" ev

Post by uwot »

Melchior wrote:
uwot wrote:
Melchior wrote:I would suggest consulting the Century Dictionary for the answers to these questions.
Given that anyone can look up those definitions, contrary to your earlier assertion, there is no advantage to being a native speaker
Melchior wrote:I don't really want to talk about Hegel. He's not worth the time.
But evidently we are.
I certainly am not. I'm talking about language and translation.
Could you explain what exactly you are responding to?
David Handeye
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Re: Greatest Explanation of "The Phenomenology of Spirit" ev

Post by David Handeye »

I would say, what did Hegel mean by Spirit? He meant Reason. And Absolute. And God. He could have named his work The Phenomenology of Reason, or of Absolute, or of God, but he would have written always the same book.
I am Italian mother-tongue, just to say, in Italian often Spirit is taken for Counsciousness, so that very often The Phenomenology of Spirit becomes The Phenomenology of Counsciousness, that in Italian makes either much more sense.
Eventually, I think you TheVoiceOfTime and Melchior are both right.
Hegel has been ambiguous on purpose.
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