The Darwinian Mob

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uwot
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Re: The Darwinian Mob

Post by uwot » Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:03 pm

Greylorn Ell wrote:DUAS contains about 40-50 unique concepts, including several that are certain to challenge the beliefs and opinions of any well-educated person.
Some well educated people are quite at ease with unique concepts. What changes educated minds is unique predictions that are supported by unique confirmation.
Greylorn Ell wrote:So, kindly do not compare me to conventional believers and run-of-the-mill crackpots. I am not conventional, and could be the guru of all crackpots if I wanted such a silly job.
As it happens, I've got you tagged as a well meaning scientific prophet, which would irritate me more than crackpot; so: sorry.
I recently sold one of my children, so I have as few shillings to rub together. If I were to buy a copy of your book, is there any particular concept, among the 40 to 50, which if it could be falsified, would bring the whole edifice down? That, really is the benchmark of a scientific theory these days; Karl Popper is rare amongst philosophers, in that some scientists think he made a good point.
Greylorn Ell wrote:BTW, do you happen to know of any good internet Charm Schools to which I might apply?
No. Why do you think I might?

Blaggard
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Re: The Darwinian Mob

Post by Blaggard » Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:14 pm

I think Karl Popper made a very good point or several hundred, he's popular amongst good Scientists... ;)

Amongst those who keep a dream catcher in their bedroom, a copy of The Sun maybe, despite only being 1/6 millionth Indian, well you can probably discuss their inanity...

Greylorn Ell
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Re: The Darwinian Mob

Post by Greylorn Ell » Sat Feb 07, 2015 7:14 am

uwot wrote:Some well educated people are quite at ease with unique concepts. What changes educated minds is unique predictions that are supported by unique confirmation.
That nonsense was disproved by the philosopher/historian Emmanuel Velikovsky in the mid-fifties. He proposed unique concepts, provided evidence to support them, and was vilified by the pseudo-science community. He predicted fairly specific data, such as high temperatures on the planet Venus, and that Jupiter emits infrared and radio energy, long before his predictions were confirmed by robotic probes, after his death.

The human mind (according to Beon Theory, of course) is a composite entity consisting of brain plus beon. Descartes had a similar concept, in the form of brain plus soul. Unfortunately Descartes took his "soul" concept from the Catholic Church, which had gotten it wrong.

With a small number of exceptions, humans are brain-driven, and beon is rarely engaged in the process of thought discrimination. Beon is the only component of mind that is capable of imaginative, creative thought, but because follow-the-leader thinking is more important to personal success and approbation among humans than innovative thought, beon mostly sleeps. Most of its ideas are rejected within the brain that gave rise to beon's limited consciousness. The rest are rejected by society in general.

This is why effective creative thinking in engineering and the sciences must take place in baby steps. Bigfoot steps are as intolerable to the conventional mind as the idea that bigfoot might exist.

The truth can be found in Kuhn's classic book, and its explanation in Beon Theory. With the exception of a few assholes like me who do not need to be admired by the peers I don't have, the minds of educated men are ruled not but logic, but by agreement. They can be changed only when a sufficient body of differently educated men come to disagree upon the earlier false paradigms. That is because 97% of men, educated or ignorant, are controlled entirely by their brains, which in turn are controlled by the belief systems of the society in which they live.

Only beon is capable of independent thought.

Greylorn

Greylorn Ell
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Re: The Darwinian Mob

Post by Greylorn Ell » Sat Feb 07, 2015 8:57 pm

Ginkgo wrote: When enough evolutionary scientists start to feel the criticisms in terms of their explanations being inadequate, then according to Thomas Kuhn in his, "Structure of Scientific Revolutions" there will be a paradigm shift in science. For example, Mendelian inheritance taking over from Darwin's pangenesis. Science is not set in stone. The future may well reveal that the current evolutionary theories are inadequate.
Ginkgo
Ginkgo,
The present has already revealed the inadequacy of current theories, but that by itself does not create a paradigm shift. Kuhn pointed out that a paradigm shift also requires a paradigm. He also pointed out that the new paradigm typically arises from a single individual working outside conventional science.

This leads to a self-serving plug for Digital Universe -- Analog Soul.

Greylorn

Ginkgo
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Re: The Darwinian Mob

Post by Ginkgo » Sun Feb 08, 2015 9:47 pm

Greylorn Ell wrote:
Ginkgo wrote: When enough evolutionary scientists start to feel the criticisms in terms of their explanations being inadequate, then according to Thomas Kuhn in his, "Structure of Scientific Revolutions" there will be a paradigm shift in science. For example, Mendelian inheritance taking over from Darwin's pangenesis. Science is not set in stone. The future may well reveal that the current evolutionary theories are inadequate.
Ginkgo
Ginkgo,
The present has already revealed the inadequacy of current theories, but that by itself does not create a paradigm shift. Kuhn pointed out that a paradigm shift also requires a paradigm. He also pointed out that the new paradigm typically arises from a single individual working outside conventional science.

This leads to a self-serving plug for Digital Universe -- Analog Soul.

Greylorn


You book sounds interesting. I have been meaning to order a copy for a while.

uwot
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Re: The Darwinian Mob

Post by uwot » Sun Feb 08, 2015 10:17 pm

Greylorn Ell wrote:
uwot wrote:Some well educated people are quite at ease with unique concepts. What changes educated minds is unique predictions that are supported by unique confirmation.
That nonsense was disproved by the philosopher/historian Emmanuel Velikovsky in the mid-fifties.
I think 'some' must mean different things in your world and mine. Still, like Ginkgo, I have been meaning to buy your book for some time, but I'd be amazed if there was anything as good as my hypothesis that gravity is refraction, since we're talking paradigm shifts.

Greylorn Ell
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Re: The Darwinian Mob

Post by Greylorn Ell » Wed Feb 11, 2015 7:56 am

Ginkgo wrote:
Greylorn Ell wrote:
Ginkgo wrote: When enough evolutionary scientists start to feel the criticisms in terms of their explanations being inadequate, then according to Thomas Kuhn in his, "Structure of Scientific Revolutions" there will be a paradigm shift in science. For example, Mendelian inheritance taking over from Darwin's pangenesis. Science is not set in stone. The future may well reveal that the current evolutionary theories are inadequate.
Ginkgo
Ginkgo,
The present has already revealed the inadequacy of current theories, but that by itself does not create a paradigm shift. Kuhn pointed out that a paradigm shift also requires a paradigm. He also pointed out that the new paradigm typically arises from a single individual working outside conventional science.

This leads to a self-serving plug for Digital Universe -- Analog Soul.

Greylorn
You book sounds interesting. I have been meaning to order a copy for a while.
My book pretty much sucks, so don't waste your money. I wrote angry. My website offers a better introduction. It covers about a quarter of the book with easy links. After that I can make subsequent chapters available to interested and constructive (i.e. argumentative) readers.

Greylorn

Ginkgo
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Re: The Darwinian Mob

Post by Ginkgo » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:12 am

Greylorn Ell wrote:
My book pretty much sucks, so don't waste your money. I wrote angry. My website offers a better introduction. It covers about a quarter of the book with easy links. After that I can make subsequent chapters available to interested and constructive (i.e. argumentative) readers.

Greylorn
Don't look at it like that. It is just works in progress. I am sure you will continue to make improvements and updates as more information becomes available. I am also confident you next publication will address any inadequacies.

Greylorn Ell
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Re: The Darwinian Mob

Post by Greylorn Ell » Wed Feb 11, 2015 7:49 pm

Ginkgo wrote:
Greylorn Ell wrote:
My book pretty much sucks, so don't waste your money. I wrote angry. My website offers a better introduction. It covers about a quarter of the book with easy links. After that I can make subsequent chapters available to interested and constructive (i.e. argumentative) readers.

Greylorn
Don't look at it like that. It is just works in progress. I am sure you will continue to make improvements and updates as more information becomes available. I am also confident you next publication will address any inadequacies.
Ginkgo,
Agreed. I'm accustomed to failure. Before my first very successful book I wrote and scrapped five complete manuscripts. Then another. "Digital Universe --" left at least two million discarded words in its wake. BTW as far as explaining the ideas, DUAS does so effectively. Unfortunately I put in a lot of bullshit attitudes and political opinions that were extraneous to the core material.

My website is a rewrite of the book, and is more readable. Concepts unchanged, attitude development in progress. Feedback welcome.

Greylorn

Greylorn Ell
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Re: The Darwinian Mob

Post by Greylorn Ell » Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:29 pm

uwot wrote:
Greylorn Ell wrote:
uwot wrote:Some well educated people are quite at ease with unique concepts. What changes educated minds is unique predictions that are supported by unique confirmation.
That nonsense was disproved by the philosopher/historian Emmanuel Velikovsky in the mid-fifties.
I think 'some' must mean different things in your world and mine. Still, like Ginkgo, I have been meaning to buy your book for some time, but I'd be amazed if there was anything as good as my hypothesis that gravity is refraction, since we're talking paradigm shifts.
Uwot,

I think that we both employ "some" according to its various but standard definitions. Perhaps we disagree about its applicability? Doesn't matter much, I think.

Isn't the idea that gravitational force on mass and e/m is a form of refraction (with space itself acting as the lens) kind of included in General Relativity? That was a pretty good theory, as you claim.

Beon Theory is quite a different kind of thing, more a general theory of everything than a foray into specific physics issues. It includes a unique explanation for the beginning of things and the origin of consciousness, and later applies this explanation to some minor physics things such as QM. Because my math skills are limited, the physics stuff is done hand-waving style, producing ideas that might be mathematically fleshed out by those qualified to do so.

I hope that someday you do choose to peruse the material, whether via book or website. Sooner would be better than later, because it should be read slowly, more like a textbook than a casual read. I recommend no more than one chapter per read, a one-week wait, than a reread of the preceding chapter before moving on. The printed version includes lots of margin space, top-grade paper, and a blank page after most chapters-- encouraging readers to add their comments and questions to the narrative.

That reading style allows the mind to actually understand most of the unique concepts in the book. New concepts that run up against preconceived ideas are difficult for the mind to grasp. DUAS is full of them, and I've learned that readers who go through the book rapidly, especially speed-readers, cannot mentally see the concepts. It is as if they did not read them at all. Some of the Amazon.com reviews reflect this. One reviewer did not find a single unique concept in the entire book. Alas. So my recommendations are intended not to sell books, but to engage thoughtful minds in the evaluation of a significantly different way of looking at the origin and purpose of human consciousness.

Given your physics knowledge and philosophical curiosity, we could have some interesting conversations. Might even solve a few problems.

Greylorn

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GreatandWiseTrixie
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Re: The Darwinian Mob

Post by GreatandWiseTrixie » Thu Feb 12, 2015 6:04 pm

Greylorn Ell wrote:
uwot wrote:Some well educated people are quite at ease with unique concepts. What changes educated minds is unique predictions that are supported by unique confirmation.
That nonsense was disproved by the philosopher/historian Emmanuel Velikovsky in the mid-fifties. He proposed unique concepts, provided evidence to support them, and was vilified by the pseudo-science community. He predicted fairly specific data, such as high temperatures on the planet Venus, and that Jupiter emits infrared and radio energy, long before his predictions were confirmed by robotic probes, after his death.

The human mind (according to Beon Theory, of course) is a composite entity consisting of brain plus beon. Descartes had a similar concept, in the form of brain plus soul. Unfortunately Descartes took his "soul" concept from the Catholic Church, which had gotten it wrong.

With a small number of exceptions, humans are brain-driven, and beon is rarely engaged in the process of thought discrimination. Beon is the only component of mind that is capable of imaginative, creative thought, but because follow-the-leader thinking is more important to personal success and approbation among humans than innovative thought, beon mostly sleeps. Most of its ideas are rejected within the brain that gave rise to beon's limited consciousness. The rest are rejected by society in general.

This is why effective creative thinking in engineering and the sciences must take place in baby steps. Bigfoot steps are as intolerable to the conventional mind as the idea that bigfoot might exist.

The truth can be found in Kuhn's classic book, and its explanation in Beon Theory. With the exception of a few assholes like me who do not need to be admired by the peers I don't have, the minds of educated men are ruled not but logic, but by agreement. They can be changed only when a sufficient body of differently educated men come to disagree upon the earlier false paradigms. That is because 97% of men, educated or ignorant, are controlled entirely by their brains, which in turn are controlled by the belief systems of the society in which they live.

Only beon is capable of independent thought.

Greylorn
Wow, you couldn't have thought of a word besides "beon"? How typical. And your notions of the magical beon mind are ridiculous. I will say no more. Are you one of those fools who believes in free will, too?

Not a crack-pot, but crack-head, run-of-the-mill backwoods bigot with delusional personality disorder. You couldn't pay me money to read your drivel, after hearing about your beon theory I have made up my mind, for good or for ill. You want to cut, I can cut deeper, far deeper than you're willing to bend. I enjoy pain, whereas you enjoy your silly little superbowl games, you crave and need the respect and admiration of your fellows, don't you? It must really hurt when we say mean things to you...doesn't it? Especially when you spent 50 years of your life into one little book, us calling it rubbish...ouch! And what's the deal with putting your name at the end of every post? How old-fashioned is that? This is the internet, there's already built in username linking attached to each post. I guess over in Arizona there's a lot of fetal alcohol syndrome resurfacing from the ages, rearing it's ugly head for all to see.

Say, is that why you detest transgender's so much? Because whenever you look in the mirror you see an old man, and deep down...you're jealous of them? Knowing you'll go to the grave an ugly old mess, knowing you'll never be as pretty as they are? Now, it's becoming so abundantly clear why you bury yourself in football and silly books - I'd feel sorry for you, if you weren't so disgusting. It'd be funny, if it wasn't so sad. Of course, that makes it even more funny.

thedoc
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Re: The Darwinian Mob

Post by thedoc » Thu Feb 12, 2015 7:35 pm

GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:
Greylorn Ell wrote:
uwot wrote:Some well educated people are quite at ease with unique concepts. What changes educated minds is unique predictions that are supported by unique confirmation.
That nonsense was disproved by the philosopher/historian Emmanuel Velikovsky in the mid-fifties. He proposed unique concepts, provided evidence to support them, and was vilified by the pseudo-science community. He predicted fairly specific data, such as high temperatures on the planet Venus, and that Jupiter emits infrared and radio energy, long before his predictions were confirmed by robotic probes, after his death.

The human mind (according to Beon Theory, of course) is a composite entity consisting of brain plus beon. Descartes had a similar concept, in the form of brain plus soul. Unfortunately Descartes took his "soul" concept from the Catholic Church, which had gotten it wrong.

With a small number of exceptions, humans are brain-driven, and beon is rarely engaged in the process of thought discrimination. Beon is the only component of mind that is capable of imaginative, creative thought, but because follow-the-leader thinking is more important to personal success and approbation among humans than innovative thought, beon mostly sleeps. Most of its ideas are rejected within the brain that gave rise to beon's limited consciousness. The rest are rejected by society in general.

This is why effective creative thinking in engineering and the sciences must take place in baby steps. Bigfoot steps are as intolerable to the conventional mind as the idea that bigfoot might exist.

The truth can be found in Kuhn's classic book, and its explanation in Beon Theory. With the exception of a few assholes like me who do not need to be admired by the peers I don't have, the minds of educated men are ruled not but logic, but by agreement. They can be changed only when a sufficient body of differently educated men come to disagree upon the earlier false paradigms. That is because 97% of men, educated or ignorant, are controlled entirely by their brains, which in turn are controlled by the belief systems of the society in which they live.

Only beon is capable of independent thought.

Greylorn
Wow, you couldn't have thought of a word besides "beon"? How typical. And your notions of the magical beon mind are ridiculous. I will say no more. Are you one of those fools who believes in free will, too?

Not a crack-pot, but crack-head, run-of-the-mill backwoods bigot with delusional personality disorder. You couldn't pay me money to read your drivel, after hearing about your beon theory I have made up my mind, for good or for ill. You want to cut, I can cut deeper, far deeper than you're willing to bend. I enjoy pain, whereas you enjoy your silly little superbowl games, you crave and need the respect and admiration of your fellows, don't you? It must really hurt when we say mean things to you...doesn't it? Especially when you spent 50 years of your life into one little book, us calling it rubbish...ouch! And what's the deal with putting your name at the end of every post? How old-fashioned is that? This is the internet, there's already built in username linking attached to each post. I guess over in Arizona there's a lot of fetal alcohol syndrome resurfacing from the ages, rearing it's ugly head for all to see.
Based on that recommendation, I think i'll see if I can find a copy of the book to read.

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GreatandWiseTrixie
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Re: The Darwinian Mob

Post by GreatandWiseTrixie » Thu Feb 12, 2015 9:41 pm

thedoc wrote:
Wow, you couldn't have thought of a word besides "beon"? How typical. And your notions of the magical beon mind are ridiculous. I will say no more. Are you one of those fools who believes in free will, too?

Not a crack-pot, but crack-head, run-of-the-mill backwoods bigot with delusional personality disorder. You couldn't pay me money to read your drivel, after hearing about your beon theory I have made up my mind, for good or for ill. You want to cut, I can cut deeper, far deeper than you're willing to bend. I enjoy pain, whereas you enjoy your silly little superbowl games, you crave and need the respect and admiration of your fellows, don't you? It must really hurt when we say mean things to you...doesn't it? Especially when you spent 50 years of your life into one little book, us calling it rubbish...ouch! And what's the deal with putting your name at the end of every post? How old-fashioned is that? This is the internet, there's already built in username linking attached to each post. I guess over in Arizona there's a lot of fetal alcohol syndrome resurfacing from the ages, rearing it's ugly head for all to see.
Based on that recommendation, I think i'll see if I can find a copy of the book to read.
No skin off my back. When you're done, let us know if it's as rubbish as we suspect it is, cuz I'm not wasting any time and money on the matter. Also, I suspect the positive 5 star reviews are just alt accounts of his, so fair warning (I could sense his trademark pent up frustration and anger bleeding from the fake reviews). Truth is, I wanted to read his book until he threw a tantrum at me for no reason, in addition with posting stupid things all over my threads, so good riddance, honestly. I doubt someone who doesn't know what the word "framerate" means has the answers of the universe, but if you want to do our dirty homework for us, who am I to intervene?

Greylorn Ell
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Re: The Darwinian Mob

Post by Greylorn Ell » Thu Feb 12, 2015 9:49 pm

thedoc wrote:
GreatandWiseTrixie wrote: Wow, you couldn't have thought of a word besides "beon"? How typical. And your notions of the magical beon mind are ridiculous. I will say no more. Are you one of those fools who believes in free will, too?

Not a crack-pot, but crack-head, run-of-the-mill backwoods bigot with delusional personality disorder. You couldn't pay me money to read your drivel, after hearing about your beon theory I have made up my mind, for good or for ill. You want to cut, I can cut deeper, far deeper than you're willing to bend. I enjoy pain, whereas you enjoy your silly little superbowl games, you crave and need the respect and admiration of your fellows, don't you? It must really hurt when we say mean things to you...doesn't it? Especially when you spent 50 years of your life into one little book, us calling it rubbish...ouch! And what's the deal with putting your name at the end of every post? How old-fashioned is that? This is the internet, there's already built in username linking attached to each post. I guess over in Arizona there's a lot of fetal alcohol syndrome resurfacing from the ages, rearing it's ugly head for all to see.
Based on that recommendation, I think i'll see if I can find a copy of the book to read.
doc,
That's droll! If you can't find one, for $10 to cover packaging and postage, I'll send a copy your way. Unless you live out of the states; then postage plus 5. So the book is free, but I'll expect you to actually read it and openly complain about its ideas on this forum.

Greylorn

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GreatandWiseTrixie
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Re: The Darwinian Mob

Post by GreatandWiseTrixie » Thu Feb 12, 2015 10:09 pm

Greylorn Ell wrote:
thedoc wrote:
GreatandWiseTrixie wrote: Wow, you couldn't have thought of a word besides "beon"? How typical. And your notions of the magical beon mind are ridiculous. I will say no more. Are you one of those fools who believes in free will, too?

Not a crack-pot, but crack-head, run-of-the-mill backwoods bigot with delusional personality disorder. You couldn't pay me money to read your drivel, after hearing about your beon theory I have made up my mind, for good or for ill. You want to cut, I can cut deeper, far deeper than you're willing to bend. I enjoy pain, whereas you enjoy your silly little superbowl games, you crave and need the respect and admiration of your fellows, don't you? It must really hurt when we say mean things to you...doesn't it? Especially when you spent 50 years of your life into one little book, us calling it rubbish...ouch! And what's the deal with putting your name at the end of every post? How old-fashioned is that? This is the internet, there's already built in username linking attached to each post. I guess over in Arizona there's a lot of fetal alcohol syndrome resurfacing from the ages, rearing it's ugly head for all to see.
Based on that recommendation, I think i'll see if I can find a copy of the book to read.
doc,
That's droll! If you can't find one, for $10 to cover packaging and postage, I'll send a copy your way. Unless you live out of the states; then postage plus 5. So the book is free, but I'll expect you to actually read it and openly complain about its ideas on this forum.

Greylorn
Can you believe it? He actually has to pay money to get others to read his material. How typical.

Guess it's old men preferring the company of other ornery old men. Can't make lemonade without lemons.

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