Re: What causes porn addiction???
Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 9:59 am
AS: What does it matter what kind of sex if it is in a secluded place outdoors away from voyeuristic eyes?
Eh? Yet again you've misread what I wrote. The outdoor sex in private was an aside. It's not sex outdoors per se but Richard's proposal of sex in full public view. In other words, I was asking Richard whether he would approve of violent, misogynistic, homophobic or racist sex being performed in public - i.e. harcore porn. I would suggest that it would be highly unlikely to occur even if sex in public were legalised. This is because people are less keen to act out hardcore for free, unless drunk or drugged (or maybe not drunk as they'd be incapable!) The fact is, the people who make a fortune out of porn are those at the top, those who make the material and distribute it. So, even if sex in public were the norm, it's likely that hardcore porn-making would continue as it would still be offering something different from that seen on the street. In any case, it's only a hypothetical argument, for who really knows?
Anyone can do whatever they wish in private, although if the behaviour is also harmful (e.g. risking disease, physical injury) then I'd question why they should wish to do it. The problem is that you have normalised degradation and abuse. I am seeing this from a totally different perspective from yourself.
AS: This is how I feel about sex in general. I feel it is just as natural.
I think sex is natural too.
AS:I was so turned off by that website I may never be able to have sex again! I liked Richard's site much better! (btw...thank you Richard! lol) That being said, I am sure there are people who could get addicted to the feminists site as well. I don't think the addiction has anything to do with the style of porn...as addictions can manifest themselves in a variety of subjects...food, cigarettes, repetitive actions, work...I think addiction is a modern day dilemma brought on by having too much free time on our hands. I don't know the solution. I just know I like hardcore porn(since you defined it as having violent overtones and ejaculation...and I suppose other stuff), I'm just not addicted to it. However, I will say that sex with all the innocence and wonderment (yes...I am still talking about hardcore sex...believe it or not!) is never degrading if you are with a lover who has your best interest in mind. I like to laugh and play...and I don't feel anything I experiment with is degrading. Sex is fantasy...it is exciting and can even be silly at times. Sex for me is as innocent and enjoyable as going to Disneyland. How more ethical can you get?
I'm not promoting any type of porn, rather I'm wondering if the feminist version is exactly as claimed by its proponents - i.e. non-abusive to women and non-violent, as opposed to the mainstream variety made primarily for males. As I said, personally I'm not into porn. However, if people feel they can't live without it, then I'm suggesting a humane compromise. You can do whatever you wish with your husband in private. But when you also use pornography, you are including others. Thus, ignoring (or not caring?) about the inhumanities inherent to the porn industry. You are focused only on your own enjoyment.
AS: First of all, young minds should not be viewing any type of porn...porn is an adult thing...just like drinking and staying out past curfew. Second, it's obvious that when they get a little older, they need an education that most women do not like this type of treatment for real...just like most car chases and murders in the movies are not real.
Exactly, so we need to make porn less easy for youngsters to access over the Internet, which is likely to be the main source for minors. The thing with car chases and murders in mainstream movies, these things are not real. The sex in hardcore porn is very real. People are actually performing sex. When such material is combined with violence and degradation, this is extremely harmful to certain young minds. It may well require professional intervention to help heal thus damaged minds. I'm thinking of the increase in sex crimes amongst children themselves - 11 and 12 year olds committing rape and torture. In all known cases, such kids were repeatedly exposed to hardcore porn, and thus had 'normalised' the behaviour. In fact, any extremely violent and sadistic material is capable of causing long-term harm to a young mind, even when the material is without a sexual element.
AS I just keep thinking about how you are most certainly correct that many in the porn industry have been abused. But how far do we take regulation?
Here we go again, your false argument.
Not once have I said we must regulate or ban anything Show me where I've said this? I'm sure I write clearly enough, since few others have difficulty reading me. I said earlier that we will not agree on this issue, so why do you keep covering over old ground and repeating straw man arguments? I've only ever talked about voluntary measures. The more we educate ourselves about the porn industry and its many abuses, non-addicted people will stop buying into it. In this way, the demand for porn is reduced. However, I do think there should be some control over Internet porn, making it only available to those willing to pay for it. Then fewer minors would be able to access it.
AS What I am asking is why is hardcore sex itself degrading or abusive? Could it just be our perception?
Certainly you have normalised something that I find disturbing due to its abusiveness, yes.
AS Or is it because there are diseases as you say?
It's not a case of this or that, the issues are multi-factorial as I've attempted to explain. Regarding disease, however, no one in their right mind would have unprotected sex with numerous partners. And I mean, not in their right mind. They must have no self-esteem due to their unhappy life experiences.
AS Even if so...diseases are more prevalent among people who are promiscuous whether or not they are in the porn industry. I have had (in the past) what you would consider 'degrading' sex...and I have never had a disease.
Then you are very lucky! Presumably you got yourself checked out for STDs afterwards.
AS I think it is a little harder to get a disease if a man ejaculates or spits on your skin than if he ejaculates or spits inside of you. Not to mention...I don't understand how it is possible to like having sex with a penis and not find everything about it attractive...the look, the taste, the cool tricks it can do! (look ma...no hands!)
Eh? Again, you are projecting a different meaning into my words. I find this extraordinary! What baffles me is that you appear to view this issue almost superficially. There are no deeper shades of perception. I'm not being insulting, I'm attempting to understand why you are unable to see where I'm coming from. From my perspective, there is a disconnection somewhere. However, I'm not blaming you for this. We see and feel things differently, so there is little point going round in circles. You are trying to rationalise or de-sensitise something that for others is perceived as deeply disturbing. Clearly you are unable to feel such disturbance when viewing violent and degrading porn. Therefore, it's impossible for you to understand at gut level a viewpoint such as mine.
AS Maybe I don't understand your whole argument...I am sorry for that...I am trying very hard to understand....I just don't see what is unnatural about sex.
As said, clearly you don't understand! I see nothing unnatural about sex. Why do you imagine this? There's nothing unnatural about violence, racism, misogyny, homophobia and all other forms of degradation either - for this is what humans are capable of. However, some of us find such behaviours distasteful and inhumane - whether combined with sex or without it. No doubt you will misinterpret this comment too!
Eh? Yet again you've misread what I wrote. The outdoor sex in private was an aside. It's not sex outdoors per se but Richard's proposal of sex in full public view. In other words, I was asking Richard whether he would approve of violent, misogynistic, homophobic or racist sex being performed in public - i.e. harcore porn. I would suggest that it would be highly unlikely to occur even if sex in public were legalised. This is because people are less keen to act out hardcore for free, unless drunk or drugged (or maybe not drunk as they'd be incapable!) The fact is, the people who make a fortune out of porn are those at the top, those who make the material and distribute it. So, even if sex in public were the norm, it's likely that hardcore porn-making would continue as it would still be offering something different from that seen on the street. In any case, it's only a hypothetical argument, for who really knows?
Anyone can do whatever they wish in private, although if the behaviour is also harmful (e.g. risking disease, physical injury) then I'd question why they should wish to do it. The problem is that you have normalised degradation and abuse. I am seeing this from a totally different perspective from yourself.
AS: This is how I feel about sex in general. I feel it is just as natural.
I think sex is natural too.
AS:I was so turned off by that website I may never be able to have sex again! I liked Richard's site much better! (btw...thank you Richard! lol) That being said, I am sure there are people who could get addicted to the feminists site as well. I don't think the addiction has anything to do with the style of porn...as addictions can manifest themselves in a variety of subjects...food, cigarettes, repetitive actions, work...I think addiction is a modern day dilemma brought on by having too much free time on our hands. I don't know the solution. I just know I like hardcore porn(since you defined it as having violent overtones and ejaculation...and I suppose other stuff), I'm just not addicted to it. However, I will say that sex with all the innocence and wonderment (yes...I am still talking about hardcore sex...believe it or not!) is never degrading if you are with a lover who has your best interest in mind. I like to laugh and play...and I don't feel anything I experiment with is degrading. Sex is fantasy...it is exciting and can even be silly at times. Sex for me is as innocent and enjoyable as going to Disneyland. How more ethical can you get?
I'm not promoting any type of porn, rather I'm wondering if the feminist version is exactly as claimed by its proponents - i.e. non-abusive to women and non-violent, as opposed to the mainstream variety made primarily for males. As I said, personally I'm not into porn. However, if people feel they can't live without it, then I'm suggesting a humane compromise. You can do whatever you wish with your husband in private. But when you also use pornography, you are including others. Thus, ignoring (or not caring?) about the inhumanities inherent to the porn industry. You are focused only on your own enjoyment.
AS: First of all, young minds should not be viewing any type of porn...porn is an adult thing...just like drinking and staying out past curfew. Second, it's obvious that when they get a little older, they need an education that most women do not like this type of treatment for real...just like most car chases and murders in the movies are not real.
Exactly, so we need to make porn less easy for youngsters to access over the Internet, which is likely to be the main source for minors. The thing with car chases and murders in mainstream movies, these things are not real. The sex in hardcore porn is very real. People are actually performing sex. When such material is combined with violence and degradation, this is extremely harmful to certain young minds. It may well require professional intervention to help heal thus damaged minds. I'm thinking of the increase in sex crimes amongst children themselves - 11 and 12 year olds committing rape and torture. In all known cases, such kids were repeatedly exposed to hardcore porn, and thus had 'normalised' the behaviour. In fact, any extremely violent and sadistic material is capable of causing long-term harm to a young mind, even when the material is without a sexual element.
AS I just keep thinking about how you are most certainly correct that many in the porn industry have been abused. But how far do we take regulation?
Here we go again, your false argument.
Not once have I said we must regulate or ban anything Show me where I've said this? I'm sure I write clearly enough, since few others have difficulty reading me. I said earlier that we will not agree on this issue, so why do you keep covering over old ground and repeating straw man arguments? I've only ever talked about voluntary measures. The more we educate ourselves about the porn industry and its many abuses, non-addicted people will stop buying into it. In this way, the demand for porn is reduced. However, I do think there should be some control over Internet porn, making it only available to those willing to pay for it. Then fewer minors would be able to access it.
AS What I am asking is why is hardcore sex itself degrading or abusive? Could it just be our perception?
Certainly you have normalised something that I find disturbing due to its abusiveness, yes.
AS Or is it because there are diseases as you say?
It's not a case of this or that, the issues are multi-factorial as I've attempted to explain. Regarding disease, however, no one in their right mind would have unprotected sex with numerous partners. And I mean, not in their right mind. They must have no self-esteem due to their unhappy life experiences.
AS Even if so...diseases are more prevalent among people who are promiscuous whether or not they are in the porn industry. I have had (in the past) what you would consider 'degrading' sex...and I have never had a disease.
Then you are very lucky! Presumably you got yourself checked out for STDs afterwards.
AS I think it is a little harder to get a disease if a man ejaculates or spits on your skin than if he ejaculates or spits inside of you. Not to mention...I don't understand how it is possible to like having sex with a penis and not find everything about it attractive...the look, the taste, the cool tricks it can do! (look ma...no hands!)
Eh? Again, you are projecting a different meaning into my words. I find this extraordinary! What baffles me is that you appear to view this issue almost superficially. There are no deeper shades of perception. I'm not being insulting, I'm attempting to understand why you are unable to see where I'm coming from. From my perspective, there is a disconnection somewhere. However, I'm not blaming you for this. We see and feel things differently, so there is little point going round in circles. You are trying to rationalise or de-sensitise something that for others is perceived as deeply disturbing. Clearly you are unable to feel such disturbance when viewing violent and degrading porn. Therefore, it's impossible for you to understand at gut level a viewpoint such as mine.
AS Maybe I don't understand your whole argument...I am sorry for that...I am trying very hard to understand....I just don't see what is unnatural about sex.
As said, clearly you don't understand! I see nothing unnatural about sex. Why do you imagine this? There's nothing unnatural about violence, racism, misogyny, homophobia and all other forms of degradation either - for this is what humans are capable of. However, some of us find such behaviours distasteful and inhumane - whether combined with sex or without it. No doubt you will misinterpret this comment too!