What causes porn addiction???

Can philosophers help resolve the real problems that people have in their lives?

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artisticsolution
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Re: What causes porn addiction???

Post by artisticsolution » Sun May 24, 2009 6:27 pm

RachelAnn wrote:Exhibitionism is defined as exposing one's genitals with the intent of provoking sexual interest in the viewer.
If this is the case then all people who have sex fall under this category except for those religious groups that have sex through a sheet with a hole in it...or any other 'weird' form of 'ethical' sexual behavior.

RA:Abnormality is Bad.

AS: Abnormality is Good. It is how we advance as a civilization. Why, just a few years ago it was considered abnormal for blacks and women to have the right to vote. Thank God for liberal agendas! :wink:

artisticsolution
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Re: What causes porn addiction???

Post by artisticsolution » Sun May 24, 2009 6:39 pm

Richard Baron wrote:
Morpheus wrote:Richard, violent pornography is not nudity or naturism.

...

To equate naturism (of which I wholeheartedly approve) with pornography is diverting attention from the issue we are discussing
We agree on that point, naturism is not porn. I don't know whether you agree that sex in public should be generally permitted.

I did not intend to divert from the issue. I was just offering my modest proposal as a possible way of reducing the demand for porn (satisfying you) and making it very difficult to think of sex as shameful (satisfying Artisticsolution).

(I also happen to think that it would liberate us from unnecessary constraints on public conduct, and I take any such liberation to be intrinsically good. But that would be a diversion from the issue.)
Hi Richard,

I think we have had this discussion before. Didn't we agree that it would be a good thing to allow public areas for open sexuality but also allow for other areas to be sex/nudity free zones so as to respect the privacy of the inhibited? You said something about the others not hogging all the good spots...lol.

RachelAnn
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Re: What causes porn addiction???

Post by RachelAnn » Sun May 24, 2009 8:08 pm

RA:Abnormality is Bad.

AS: Abnormality is Good.
Let me clarify, that the judgment 'bad' came from the medical/psychiatric journals -- I made no statement of my personal opinion.

artisticsolution
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Re: What causes porn addiction???

Post by artisticsolution » Sun May 24, 2009 9:33 pm

RA,I'm sorry that I made it look like I was quoting you. I was only responding to the statement.

I know what it's like to present an argument and then have people think you are arguing on behalf of your beliefs because you wish to partake in a particular sentiment. I think most of us are misunderstood when we argue on behalf of something we may not agree with for ourselves. It's human nature to come to the conclusion if someone is presenting an idea they are doing it for selfish reasons...for example...someone makes an argument in favor of gay marriage and so they must be gay. This is not always the case. I apologize if I gave you that impression.

Richard Baron
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Re: What causes porn addiction???

Post by Richard Baron » Sun May 24, 2009 9:47 pm

artisticsolution wrote:I think we have had this discussion before. Didn't we agree that it would be a good thing to allow public areas for open sexuality but also allow for other areas to be sex/nudity free zones so as to respect the privacy of the inhibited? You said something about the others not hogging all the good spots...lol.
AS, you are correct. It is not unknown for philosophers to repeat themselves, or indeed one another.

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Re: What causes porn addiction???

Post by RachelAnn » Sun May 24, 2009 10:04 pm

This is not always the case. I apologize if I gave you that impression.
AS, you need not apologize -- I just wanted to clarify what I may not have written properly the first time.

As a gay man trapped in a woman's body, I'm all for legalizing same-sex marriage... heh :twisted: heh
Really, the state has no business in my 'boudoir.' Or yours.

De-regulate pornography, public sex, public nudity, and de-regulate same sex marriage. Please refer to Richard's arguments.

Morpheus
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Re: What causes porn addiction???

Post by Morpheus » Mon May 25, 2009 10:37 am

Funnily enough, I agree with most of what Richard advocates. As for marriage (same sex or any other version), I don't know why anyone needs marriage at all. Since some people on this forum say they disapprove of state interference, then why conform to state sanctioned marriage? Or state sanctioned killing, or all the other state sanctions that interfere with so-called individual freedom?

My marriage in 1973 to my late husband was a hand-fasting, a Pagan ceremony which has never been recognised by the state. But it meant far more to us than anything government or the Church could offer. I'm no longer a Pagan as I have come to realise that no belief system has the monopoly on truth. My own truth, however, remains firmly rooted in Nature. My current partner and I have been together for 15 years, although we live apart because we are fiercely independent people. It works perfectly for us as every meeting is something special and cause for celebration. We are together because we choose to be together, not because we are tied by convention.

Returning to pornography: where I question Richard is whether the legalisation of public sex would reduce the demand for pornography, as Richard suggested earlier. First, Richard (and anyone else who advocates it), what exactly do you mean by public sex? Do you mean sex as a spectator sport, sort of state sanctioned voyourism - or simply the freedom to have sex in the park or in a public lavatory, or wherever one chooses, so long as it's in view of the general public?

And what kind of sex? Do you mean the violent, misogynist version discussed earlier - such as ejaculating and spitting in a woman's face and calling her foul names? Or, maybe straightforward sexual intercourse between gay or straight couples - or maybe threesomes or even orgies? By the way, in my opinion sex outdoors in the countryside is wonderful if you mean in a secluded place somewhere away from voyouristic eyes.

Public nudity is fine by me; we already have it here in the UK with naturist beaches. Women will sunbathe topless on certain beaches in West Wales. Although I don't know why men always keep their swimming trunks on - and women, the silly bit of fabric that constitutes a bikini bottom! What does dismay me, however, is the public's distaste of breastfeeding in public. If a mother decides to feed her baby in a public place, such as a park bench or restaurant, usually she's ushered away to the nearest lavatory - this is what I call depravity. The most natural thing in the world is sexualised or turned into something shameful or repellent. Some say that a breastfeeding mother in a cafe or restaurant would put others off their food and drink!

Any way, this thread is supposed to be about addiction to hardcore pornography - which is all about the promotion of violence and degradation - the style of pornography usually aimed at males who are the main consumers of it. No one has commented on the woman friendly verision that some feminists are advocating. So, unless the public sex you advocate mimics the material porn addicts go for, how can it turn people away from hardcore porn? What we are fogetting here is that violence and degradation, misogyny, racism and homophobia is what defines hardcore porn nowadays. It's this style of sadistic and hateful material that's poisoning young minds (if they are exposed to it during their formative years) and encouraging emotionally immature men to act out the violence in real life, either with the aid of prostitutes or through rape. It's also the style of material that porn addicts crave.

This is aside from the emotional and physical dis-eases (also substance abuses) commonly experienced by porn actors.
Last edited by Morpheus on Mon May 25, 2009 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Morpheus
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Re: What causes porn addiction???

Post by Morpheus » Mon May 25, 2009 12:52 pm

RachelAnn wrote:Exhibitionism is defined as exposing one's genitals with the intent of provoking sexual interest in the viewer.
All of the medical/psychiatric sites add "paraphilia" somewhere in the definition; coined by Freud, it connotes sexual abnormality. Abnormality is Bad. Most of the med-psy's also include the word "morbid." Also bad.
I'm no advocate of Freud, nor necessarily of psychiatry. However, in an attempt to look at this objectively, it seems to me that you are misunderstanding medical terms here. In medicine, 'morbid' means a diseased state. As in the term 'morbidity rate'. It's not a value judgement from the moralistic perspective. Otherwise, we'd be saying anyone who has a disease is ill because they are a 'bad' person.

Also, the form of exhibitionism cited in medical texts - i.e. that which takes the form of an obsession, rather than a personality trait of 'exhibitionism' as used in common parlance - is the compulsion to expose one's genitalia in inappropriate circumstances. For instance, the man who lurks near a school for the opportunity to 'flash' his erect penis to girls walking by. I've seen similar behaviour in the grounds of a psychiatric hospital - a man exposing his genitals to any woman who took his fancy. When all's said and done, this isn't the behaviour we associate with those of balanced mind. The habit of exposing the genitals in inappropriate circumstances is common in men with certain forms of 'learning disability', formerly they would have been described as being 'mental'. However, it's also true that in some or many instances, such behaviour in those with learning disabilities is merely sexual frustration, since they are usually prevented from having sex with others. The right for mentally retarded people to enjoy sexual intercourse would be an interesting discussion for the ethics section.

RachelAnn
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Re: What causes porn addiction???

Post by RachelAnn » Mon May 25, 2009 2:23 pm

Hi Morpheus,
Yes, I understand that 'morbidity' refers to disease.
I take issue with that when it is applied by psychiatry to describe a condition of behavior.
I agree wholehearted with theorist Michel Foucalt, psychiatrist Thomas Szasz, and philosopher Herbert Fingarette in that respect. However, that is a whole other thread.
...is the compulsion to expose one's genitalia in inappropriate circumstances.
Even if it is a 'compulsion,' it remains a choice in behavior. State hospitality suites welcome those who practice such behaviors.

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Re: What causes porn addiction???

Post by Richard Baron » Mon May 25, 2009 2:32 pm

Morpheus wrote:As for marriage (same sex or any other version), I don't know why anyone needs marriage at all.
I agree. The world would not be poorer if people simply expressed their commitment to one another in whatever form they considered to be right for them, and through organisations to which they belonged voluntarily (churches etc) if they so chose, without state involvement. If a relationship ends, the questions in which the law may need to be involved, care of children and the division of property, are the same whether or not there was a legally recognised ceremony. I guess that the continued legal recognition of marriage reflects either inertia, or the fact that people think that the state ought to recognise some very important aspects of our lives.
Morpheus wrote:Returning to pornography: where I question Richard is whether the legalisation of public sex would reduce the demand for pornography, as Richard suggested earlier. First, Richard (and anyone else who advocates it), what exactly do you mean by public sex? Do you mean sex as a spectator sport, sort of state sanctioned voyourism - or simply the freedom to have sex in the park or in a public lavatory, or wherever one chooses, so long as it's in view of the general public?

And what kind of sex? Do you mean the violent, misogynist version discussed earlier - such as ejaculating and spitting in a woman's face and calling her foul names? Or, maybe straightforward sexual intercourse between gay or straight couples - or maybe threesomes or even orgies? By the way, in my opinion sex outdoors in the countryside is wonderful if you mean in a secluded place somewhere away from voyouristic eyes.
I meant the freedom to do in public whatever you feel happy doing in private, with however many people. You would know whether people were likely to see you, and you could go ahead, or go and find somewhere else, according to your preference. No-one would be enjoined to put on a show: it would be up to them. The critical point is that no policeman could turn up and tell you to stop. You quite rightly raise the question of whether such licence would have any effect on the demand for porn. I do not know, but it might. And I still think that it would have the useful effect of making it harder to think of sex as shameful, and the virtue of increasing our freedom.

I would also not draw the boundaries between different types of sex that you indicate. If it's what adults choose to do, that's fine by me. But I can see that you might have a concern here, based on your concern about the effects of certain types of porn. If it has an effect on the minds of some of those who watch it on screen, it might have the same effect if seen in the park. (I am not myself sure about these effects, or about the extent to which we should control most of us in case of damage to some vulnerable people, but that is another aspect of the debate.)
Morpheus wrote:So, unless the public sex you advocate mimics the material porn addicts go for, how can it turn people away from hardcore porn?
It might work if the effect is to lead to sex being seen, by everyone, as just an ordinary part of life. It depends on what leads people to seek out violent porn.
Morpheus wrote:No one has commented on the woman friendly verision that some feminists are advocating.
I am not sure exactly what you have in mind. Can you supply any links? If the proposal is to promote it, then yes, that might well lead people to prefer it and to a drop in the demand for violent porn. I fear that the difficulty is that governments and government agencies dare not encourage the promotion of anything that could be labelled as porn, for fear of the reactionary press.

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Re: What causes porn addiction???

Post by Morpheus » Mon May 25, 2009 4:44 pm

I don't think feminist porn is freely available over the Internet. It has to be paid for. However, there is a Feminist Porn Awards site. As I've just broken my beautiful Edwardian teapot, I'd rather spend my hard earned cash at the local flea market. . So I can't comment on its merits or short-comings. But if you're feeling flush, here's the link to 'Good For Her'. (Whenever I write about porn in these posts, I read it back to myself and notice unintentional double entendres!)

http://www.goodforher.com/Feminist_Porn_Awards.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: What causes porn addiction???

Post by Morpheus » Mon May 25, 2009 5:39 pm

RachelAnn wrote:
...is the compulsion to expose one's genitalia in inappropriate circumstances.
Even if it is a 'compulsion,' it remains a choice in behavior. State hospitality suites welcome those who practice such behaviors.
It's not a real choice if the person has congenital learning disability, or mental handicap, as it used to be called. As for the hospitality suites, do you mean certain hotels or brothels? In which case, it's not inappropriate behaviour, since it would be entirely expected and hoped for! The incident I mentioned in passing last time was the day I visited a 'mental institution' where patients are boarded, often permanently. (Most of these institutions were closed in the UK in favour of 'care in the community'). I was with a friend, visiting her mentally disabled son. Sitting on a bench in the magnificant grounds, siddenly a laughing inmate came over to us and put his erect willy in my friend's face! OK, we saw the funny side of it. But if this had happened in the local park, the poor bloke would have been arrested - albeit, his behaviour was not entirely uexpected considering the venue.

Nevertheless, I agree that psychiatry, like every other institution, reflects current thinking, and thus is constantly being revised. As we know, 19th century doctors deemed masturbation harmful. Not so long ago, homosexuality was regarded as an aberration - and still is regarded as such by certain religions. Sometimes, however, it's hard not to conclude that a person is behaving strangely and out of context. That is to say, strange by just about any cultural norm.

From my own version of reality, I regard certain of our cultural 'norms' to be totally mad. I've already discussed this elsewhere, but the madness includes destruction of our own life-support system (Earth) and our propensity for warfare.

Richard Baron
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Re: What causes porn addiction???

Post by Richard Baron » Mon May 25, 2009 6:23 pm

Morpheus wrote:I don't think feminist porn is freely available over the Internet. It has to be paid for. However, there is a Feminist Porn Awards site. As I've just broken my beautiful Edwardian teapot, I'd rather spend my hard earned cash at the local flea market. So I can't comment on its merits or short-comings. But if you're feeling flush, here's the link to 'Good For Her'. (Whenever I write about porn in these posts, I read it back to myself and notice unintentional double entendres!)

http://www.goodforher.com/Feminist_Porn_Awards.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Whatever would a girl (or boy) do without Google? Here is another link (the company was mentioned in another site about feminist porn):

http://www.blowfish.com/catalog/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A few of the videos listed have free trailers to give you the idea. There is a link in the left hand column on this page, which takes you to a page of links to different categories of video.

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Re: What causes porn addiction???

Post by RachelAnn » Mon May 25, 2009 7:23 pm

It's not a real choice if the person has congenital learning disability, or mental handicap, as it used to be called.
Of course! A person with or a traumatic brain injury, congenital mental retardation or, the politically correct 'developmental disability', or some such, has a biological basis for behavior.
I refer only to a reasonably healthy adult. Send the sick bastard to jail. Let the inmates play doctor and 'treat' him. I take a damned unmerciful stance on adults who hurt kids.
State hospitality is an Americanism for prison...
I am partial to Good Vibrations (Joani, the current proprietress, used to babysit my eldest many moons ago).

artisticsolution
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Re: What causes porn addiction???

Post by artisticsolution » Tue May 26, 2009 4:49 am

Hi Morpheus,

M:Funnily enough, I agree with most of what Richard advocates.

AS: Then you agree with most of what I say as well...as Richard and I have been saying basically the same thing...the only difference is he says it with much more flair. plus he's got the Superman thing going on and who could go against Superman? :wink:

M: I don't know why anyone needs marriage at all.

AS: cause it's romantic. The thought of someone putting everything on the line (legally) til death do we part is the epitome of romance imo. However, you are right...a little piece of paper really means nothing since you can always get another little piece of paper that cancels out the first piece of paper.

M:And what kind of sex? Do you mean the violent, misogynist version discussed earlier - such as ejaculating and spitting in a woman's face and calling her foul names? Or, maybe straightforward sexual intercourse between gay or straight couples - or maybe threesomes or even orgies? By the way, in my opinion sex outdoors in the countryside is wonderful if you mean in a secluded place somewhere away from voyouristic eyes.

AS: What does it matter what kind of sex if it is in a secluded place outdoors away from voyeuristic eyes?

M: The most natural thing in the world is sexualised or turned into something shameful or repellent.

AS: This is how I feel about sex in general. I feel it is just as natural.

M: No one has commented on the woman friendly verision that some feminists are advocating.

AS:I was so turned off by that website I may never be able to have sex again! I liked Richard's site much better! (btw...thank you Richard! lol) That being said, I am sure there are people who could get addicted to the feminists site as well. I don't think the addiction has anything to do with the style of porn...as addictions can manifest themselves in a variety of subjects...food, cigarettes, repetitive actions, work...I think addiction is a modern day dilemma brought on by having too much free time on our hands. I don't know the solution. I just know I like hardcore porn(since you defined it as having violent overtones and ejaculation...and I suppose other stuff), I'm just not addicted to it. However, I will say that sex with all the innocence and wonderment (yes...I am still talking about hardcore sex...believe it or not!) is never degrading if you are with a lover who has your best interest in mind. I like to laugh and play...and I don't feel anything I experiment with is degrading. Sex is fantasy...it is exciting and can even be silly at times. Sex for me is as innocent and enjoyable as going to Disneyland. How more ethical can you get?

M: It's this style of sadistic and hateful material that's poisoning young minds...
This is aside from the emotional and physical dis-eases (also substance abuses) commonly experienced by porn actors.

AS: First of all, young minds should not be viewing any type of porn...porn is an adult thing...just like drinking and staying out past curfew. Second, it's obvious that when they get a little older, they need an education that most women do not like this type of treatment for real...just like most car chases and murders in the movies are not real.

I just keep thinking about how you are most certainly correct that many in the porn industry have been abused. But how far do we take regulation? How far do we go when we restrict people's choices based on how capable we feel they are of making decisions? For example, if we ban the 21 year old porn actor from working in porn because we feel he/she is not capable of making informed decisions based on having been sexually abused...then how far do we take that? Do we say they can never enter into any type of contractual agreement because they are not capable of decision making? If they are not capable of choosing a career in porn are they also not capable of buying a house or getting married?

What I am asking is why is hardcore sex itself degrading or abusive? Could it just be our perception? Or is it because there are diseases as you say? Even if so...diseases are more prevalent among people who are promiscuous whether or not they are in the porn industry. I have had (in the past) what you would consider 'degrading' sex...and I have never had a disease. I have a few friends who do not like 'degrading' sex...who have had all types of diseases....because they happen to love one man who happened to be promiscuous. Not to mention I think it is a little harder to get a disease if a man ejaculates or spits on your skin than if he ejaculates or spits inside of you. Not to mention...I don't understand how it is possible to like having sex with a penis and not find everything about it attractive...the look, the taste, the cool tricks it can do! (look ma...no hands!) :wink:

Maybe I don't understand your whole argument...I am sorry for that...I am trying very hard to understand....I just don't see what is unnatural about sex.

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