What causes porn addiction???

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Morpheus
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Re: What causes porn addiction???

Post by Morpheus » Sat May 23, 2009 10:35 pm

RachelAnn wrote:Does exhibitionism imply having sex in front of other people?
I've always assumed that the term also relates to those who have a desire to expose their genitals and/or to masturbate in front of others, as in the term 'flasher'. Other exhibitionists, if wealthy, like to draw attention to themselves by displaying their wealth. I expect there are other manifestations of exhibitionism.

Additional thoughts about the defintion of pornography: in an attempt to define pornography, I'd suggest it's that which combines explicit sexual acts together with abuse or degradation, and in a way that condones such behaviour. It's the latter that separates erotica from porn. Erotica can be sexually explicit and arousing, but is totally free of abuse such as racism, homophobia or misogyny. Erotica may also be entirely suggestive through the use of scent, colour, texture and music - or perhaps through art.

Morpheus
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Re: What causes porn addiction???

Post by Morpheus » Sun May 24, 2009 6:15 am

In addition to the scientific references posted earlier (i.e. the physical and mental health issues of porn performers), for anyone seeking reliable scientific research into the harmful effects on the consumer of violent and degrading forms of pornography, here's the link to Pub Med (articles from the US library of medicine).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Richard Baron
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Re: What causes porn addiction???

Post by Richard Baron » Sun May 24, 2009 7:57 am

Hello RachelAnn/Morpheus/Artisticsolution

I had not thought about the definition of exhibitionism. I suppose that if there is a component of transgression of norms in exhibitionism, then what counts will depend on the norms. There are (evil) societies in which not wearing a burka would count.

Now, were our norms to change so that public nudity and public sex were completely accepted, perhaps that would greatly reduce the demand for porn. Sex would no longer be something secret, it would be impossible to maintain that it was shameful (just as you cannot maintain that it is shameful to eat food, given that lots of people do that in public - although there is a lovely scene in Buñuel's Le fantôme de la liberté in which the publicity and privacy of eating and going to the toilet respectively are reversed), and those who wanted porn simply to satisfy their curiosity could go for a walk in the park. Morpheus and Artisticsolution, would this achieve the objectives of both of you?

A little snippet: I was at a nudist disco on Friday, chatting to a couple who were there for the first time, and the woman commented on how non-sexual the general atmosphere was, despite sexual play going on in one or two corners of the room.

Lusia Mousky
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Re: What causes porn addiction???

Post by Lusia Mousky » Sun May 24, 2009 8:54 am

There are nudist beaches and mixed saunas in Europe.
People who want this can go there.
But the demand seems not to be very high, otherwise more of them would be established.

Richard Baron
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Re: What causes porn addiction???

Post by Richard Baron » Sun May 24, 2009 9:17 am

Lusia Mousky wrote:There are nudist beaches and mixed saunas in Europe.
True, but that still involves segregating nudity in special areas, so it can still be thought of as shameful. And sex is not allowed in such places.

Morpheus
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Re: What causes porn addiction???

Post by Morpheus » Sun May 24, 2009 10:25 am

Richard, violent pornography is not nudity or naturism. Naturists are not prostitutes/porn performers by definition of their nakedness. The 'exhibitionist' word was a throw-away remark when I talked tongue-in-cheek about so-called ethical porn. I used it specifically to describe those who would perform sex acts in front of others. The word is also common parlance for those with a psychiatric problem - for example, the 'dirty old man in the raincoat' who gets his kicks out of masturbating in front of school girls.

Clearly, porn performers are prostitutes, not simply people who enjoy the fresh air on their bodies! To equate naturism (of which I wholeheartedly approve) with pornography is diverting attention from the issue we are discussing: the harmful effects of violent and degrading porn on vulnerable minds. It's the violence and degradation that is damaging to vulnerable minds, not nakedness, sexual intercourse itself or even erotica - that is, the non-violent erotica I attempted to define earlier.

Also, lack of consensus for the definition of porn has not proved to be an obstacle in making child pornography illegal. Why is this? It seems to me that some people (not all) who have difficulty defining pornography are using this as a strategy to cloud the issue - an attempt to make arguments such as mine appear futile. We also have the scientific evidence to support the instinctive realisation that violent, degrading, racist, homophobic and misogynistic pornography is harmful to vulnerable minds.
Last edited by Morpheus on Sun May 24, 2009 10:33 am, edited 2 times in total.

realunoriginal
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Re: What causes porn addiction???

Post by realunoriginal » Sun May 24, 2009 10:29 am

Morpheus wrote:We also have the scientific evidence to support the instinctive realisation that violent, degrading, racist, homophobic and misogynistic pornography is harmful to vulnerable minds.
Bullshit.

But you are not really-interested in discussing this matter like an adult, Morpheus. So I will leave you to your girlish delusions.

Richard Baron
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Re: What causes porn addiction???

Post by Richard Baron » Sun May 24, 2009 10:36 am

Morpheus wrote:Richard, violent pornography is not nudity or naturism.

...

To equate naturism (of which I wholeheartedly approve) with pornography is diverting attention from the issue we are discussing
We agree on that point, naturism is not porn. I don't know whether you agree that sex in public should be generally permitted.

I did not intend to divert from the issue. I was just offering my modest proposal as a possible way of reducing the demand for porn (satisfying you) and making it very difficult to think of sex as shameful (satisfying Artisticsolution).

(I also happen to think that it would liberate us from unnecessary constraints on public conduct, and I take any such liberation to be intrinsically good. But that would be a diversion from the issue.)

Morpheus
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Re: What causes porn addiction???

Post by Morpheus » Sun May 24, 2009 10:48 am

Yes I knew exactly what you meant Richard. I'm saying that the apologists for violent and degrading pornography (not yourself!) use every diversion tactic imaginable to 'normalise' it.

Wasn't public sex the norm in ancient Rome? Whether it was or not, we do know the Romans had a penchant for sadistic performances in the guise of entertainment. They couldn't get enough violence and sadism to quench their insatiable, desensitised appetites.

Lusia Mousky
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Re: What causes porn addiction???

Post by Lusia Mousky » Sun May 24, 2009 11:36 am

Naturism and pornography do have something in common: the transgression of privacy.
Most people just do prefer to do certain things in private.
And to cover their private parts. (private parts is an expression that the grandma of my American friend used)

Using the toilett is another area where most people like to do it alone.

In "1984" all privacy was removed and it was a nightmare, wasn´t it ?

Richard Baron
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Re: What causes porn addiction???

Post by Richard Baron » Sun May 24, 2009 11:42 am

Lusia Mousky wrote:In "1984" all privacy was removed and it was a nightmare, wasn´t it ?
Yes, there was a camera in each person's flat. Winston Smith, the hero, was lucky because the layout of his flat meant that there was one corner out of sight of the camera, where he could write.

That would indeed be a very bad type of society. I am only arguing that privacy should be optional. It should be neither compulsory nor forbidden.

Morpheus
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Re: What causes porn addiction???

Post by Morpheus » Sun May 24, 2009 12:08 pm

Many years ago I spent some time in a New Age spiritual community on a remote Scottish Island. (I no longer abide by any defined spiritual belief system I hasten to add.) What I remember most vividly on my first day was having a conversation with someone whilst she was sitting in the outside privvy with the door open. At first I was taken aback when she called me over, but soon grew accustomed to such unconventional behaviours. I always preferred to shut the privvy door, however! And I wasn't the only one who prefered the same kind of privacy. Although nudity was the norm, such as in the sweat lodge and when swimming in the sea, no one to my recollection had sex in public. I'm sure that for most societies, sexual intercourse is deemed sacred or special in some way. For this reason, privacy has always been afforded to lovers. So, I'm not convinced that public sex would reduce society's demand for porn. But who can say anything for certain?

RachelAnn
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Re: What causes porn addiction???

Post by RachelAnn » Sun May 24, 2009 3:07 pm

Exhibitionism is defined as exposing one's genitals with the intent of provoking sexual interest in the viewer.
All of the medical/psychiatric sites add "paraphilia" somewhere in the definition; coined by Freud, it connotes sexual abnormality. Abnormality is Bad. Most of the med-psy's also include the word "morbid." Also bad.

According to the book "The Brain in Love," (on google.books), if the behavior interferes with relationships, work, etc., consider it an illness. (I have issues with that underlying assumption - some other time, though). Men outnumber women in paraphilia 20:1. The book seems to bolster Richard's statement about cultural norms in relation to what might be considered exhibitionism.

One to order from the library, Exhibitionism for the Shy:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/ ... andlies-20
for the shy.jpg
Exhibitionism for the Shy
for the shy.jpg (50.74 KiB) Viewed 3437 times

artisticsolution
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Re: What causes porn addiction???

Post by artisticsolution » Sun May 24, 2009 6:03 pm

realunoriginal wrote:
And the only way she will survive our attack is if other people come to defend pornography as a virtue.

I guarantee you, 100%, that they will lose the argument.
Hi Mr. unoriginal,

I can guarantee you, 100%, that we will not lose that argument. Because it is good and just. It is what is moral and ethical. And you can thank people like me for your freedom. If it wasn't for people like me...your voice would have been banned from this site long ago for your rantings. All people should be allowed the freedom to make their own choices in life. A person's sexuality is none of your business.

The world is becoming more liberal as we gain knowledge, there is no denying that. Resistance is futile. 8)

artisticsolution
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Re: What causes porn addiction???

Post by artisticsolution » Sun May 24, 2009 6:17 pm

Morpheus wrote: If knowing this makes you feel ashamed, this is not my problem.
But I don't feel ashamed. I was thinking you did...which is why you feel inhibited. Maybe I am wrong, but I don't feel I am.

You won't even make it clear what you consider hardcore, sadistic, degrading, sex. How can we even have this discussion when you won't be upfront. For me, I believe the only disgusting and immoral thing about humanity is their never ending quest to make all people conform to a set of standards. I don't think slavery is moral whether it is blatant as human trafficking or disguised as controlling people for their own good.

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