Dear Abby: What do I do with this love poem?

Can philosophers help resolve the real problems that people have in their lives?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

User avatar
-1-
Posts: 2888
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:08 am

Re: Dear Abby: What do I do with this love poem?

Post by -1- »

Dubious wrote: Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:51 pm Write another poem if you think that's going to turn her on. Make sure it's not just another piece of sentimental slop coming out of a greasy soup kitchen. Ninety nine percent of love poems are like that overdosed with saccharine and cholesterol inside a limited vocabulary.
(here's the original piece, the printed copy of which I lost):

Are you Creation on the painting on the Sistine Chapel?

Are you the breath that gave soul and life to Adam?

Are you the breadth of the ocean, its scent and its sense
As you mark down the miles of life?

---------"A ring of men around you, who clamor your goddessness
---------A veritable army of followers, each with the dignified aim to own you
---------Never notices how you can't be kept
---------And how their efforts are vanity driven by blind desire."

Have you the eye that loves eternity
And loves for love's sake, for love is the goal;
Does your love drive your life force
And makes conquests, at no else's loss?

---------"Your bright colours of kindness are what attract all
---------And you give, give, give, and give some more joy
---------And the more you give, the easier giving becomes you."

You notice the nuances, you go with the flow
Your power is yielding, your force is to know.
You capture imagination, and cascade the colours
You sparkle rainbows, and take off and float.

---------"You make me feel free, with desire, with allure;
---------You make me want you, you sweetness, so pure."

I stopped making sense; it is to no avail; to capture your essence
is an effort to fail; too complex, too simple, a living mirage,
a campfire in the darkness, a song, a smile, a sigh.


'''''''''''''''''

You were right, Dubious. It's sappy as all-git-out. But I don't know if a woman reads this and she knows it's directed at her, whether she'd think it's sappy... or whether her healthy common sense of literary criticism could take the better of her vanity and egoism.

I ask the women in the audience to please close their eyes, read the poem, and imagine this piece of crap was written to them and then tell us what they think. I am really curious if this sort of effort is of any real, marked effectiveness.
User avatar
vegetariantaxidermy
Posts: 9155
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:45 am
Location: Narniabiznus

Re: Dear Abby: What do I do with this love poem?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

-1- wrote: Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:37 am
Dubious wrote: Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:51 pm Write another poem if you think that's going to turn her on. Make sure it's not just another piece of sentimental slop coming out of a greasy soup kitchen. Ninety nine percent of love poems are like that overdosed with saccharine and cholesterol inside a limited vocabulary.
(here's the original piece, the printed copy of which I lost):

Are you Creation on the painting on the Sistine Chapel?

Are you the breath that gave soul and life to Adam?

Are you the breadth of the ocean, its scent and its sense
As you mark down the miles of life?

---------"A ring of men around you, who clamor your goddessness
---------A veritable army of followers, each with the dignified aim to own you
---------Never notices how you can't be kept
---------And how their efforts are vanity driven by blind desire."

Have you the eye that loves eternity
And loves for love's sake, for love is the goal;
Does your love drive your life force
And makes conquests, at no else's loss?

---------"Your bright colours of kindness are what attract all
---------And you give, give, give, and give some more joy
---------And the more you give, the easier giving becomes you."

You notice the nuances, you go with the flow
Your power is yielding, your force is to know.
You capture imagination, and cascade the colours
You sparkle rainbows, and take off and float.

---------"You make me feel free, with desire, with allure;
---------You make me want you, you sweetness, so pure."

I stopped making sense; it is to no avail; to capture your essence
is an effort to fail; too complex, too simple, a living mirage,
a campfire in the darkness, a song, a smile, a sigh.


'''''''''''''''''

You were right, Dubious. It's sappy as all-git-out. But I don't know if a woman reads this and she knows it's directed at her, whether she'd think it's sappy... or whether her healthy common sense of literary criticism could take the better of her vanity and egoism.

I ask the women in the audience to please close their eyes, read the poem, and imagine this piece of crap was written to them and then tell us what they think. I am really curious if this sort of effort is of any real, marked effectiveness.
Can't read it if our eyes are closed.
Poetry can only work (just) if the woman is already in love with you (then women will think any old crap is Shakespeare). If she isn't in love with you then she will assume you are a stalker and possibly phone the police.
User avatar
-1-
Posts: 2888
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:08 am

Re: Dear Abby: What do I do with this love poem?

Post by -1- »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:05 am 1. Can't read it if our eyes are closed.
2. Poetry can only work (just) if the woman is already in love with you (then women will think any old crap is Shakespeare).
3. If she isn't in love with you then she will assume you are a stalker and possibly phone the police.
1. Your inadequacy is duly noted.
2. That's sobering, but liberating. I never thought of that that way, but I see how absolutely right you are. I say that without joking or sarcasm.
3. Lucky for Shakespeare, and his posterity. If he lived today, he would be constantly going in-and-out of jail, for writing love poetry, and "lover boy's" anys would be constantly fucked ragged by the rest of the inmates. That's precisely what feminism does to society, too.

For the more sober-minded, she is not in love with me. At least I don't think so. How would I know? What's love anyway? I don't have a clue, remember, I'm a guy.
User avatar
Lacewing
Posts: 4128
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:25 am

Re: Dear Abby: What do I do with this love poem?

Post by Lacewing »

-1- wrote: Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:37 am...
I think it's a good poem... and I can appreciate your cosmic passion for expressing such appreciation for another. However, there are so many things to consider, which I'm guessing you didn't allow to interfere with expressing your passion... and that seems inconsiderate of everyone else.

If I were to receive a truly thoughtful poem like that, I would be flattered and think... "Wow, someone who sees me and appreciates me!" But I would wonder who they were, and whether I would ever hear from them again, and it might start to feel kind of creepy as time rolled on, and no one was coming forward. Like I was under a microscope... or being toyed with -- not being given the respect of 2-way recognition. And then if I did find out that it was someone who was involved in a relationship, I would be disgusted. Not only because I would simply be their object of fantasy (which is superficial and meaningless), but it would show me the dishonest nature of their character for passion's sake. They could easily do to me what they are doing to another.

How would it affect you if you were on the receiving end of such an anonymous poem? Or what if your girlfriend was on the receiving end of such a poem? How is anyone supposed to process that? If you're just sending a poem to express yourself, without considering how it might play out or affect other people, then how is that really about anything/anyone other than you? It's like your own personal mental masturbation, isn't it?
surreptitious57
Posts: 4217
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:09 am

Re: Dear Abby: What do I do with this love poem?

Post by surreptitious57 »

Give the poem to your girlfriend and forget about this other woman who you may never see again anyway
If your girlfriend really loves you she would appreciate you taking the time and effort to write one to her
Dubious
Posts: 2504
Joined: Tue May 19, 2015 7:40 am

Re: Dear Abby: What do I do with this love poem?

Post by Dubious »

-1- wrote: Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:37 am
Dubious wrote: Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:51 pm Write another poem if you think that's going to turn her on. Make sure it's not just another piece of sentimental slop coming out of a greasy soup kitchen. Ninety nine percent of love poems are like that overdosed with saccharine and cholesterol inside a limited vocabulary.

You were right, Dubious. It's sappy as all-git-out. But I don't know if a woman reads this and she knows it's directed at her, whether she'd think it's sappy... or whether her healthy common sense of literary criticism could take the better of her vanity and egoism.

I ask the women in the audience to please close their eyes, read the poem, and imagine this piece of crap was written to them and then tell us what they think. I am really curious if this sort of effort is of any real, marked effectiveness.
It's not the worst love poem I ever read and there's certainly no line that's cornier than

Shall I compare thee to a summer's day
Thou art more lovely and more temperate

Could never figure out why this sonnet by Shakespeare is so famous. Those by Keats I think are far superior. When it comes to pure poetry, excluding plays, even Shakespeare is somewhat in arrears.
User avatar
Lacewing
Posts: 4128
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:25 am

Re: Dear Abby: What do I do with this love poem?

Post by Lacewing »

surreptitious57 wrote: Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:09 pm Give the poem to your girlfriend and forget about this other woman who you may never see again anyway
If your girlfriend really loves you she would appreciate you taking the time and effort to write one to her
Oh I see... let's see if the girlfriend really loves you, by being fooled into thinking you had her in mind when you wrote about another.

Seriously surreptitious57... that is the most fucked up energy. You're disgusting. What is wrong with you men? You masturbate yourselves in every lazy and superficial way you can think of, and then blame it on women.
User avatar
vegetariantaxidermy
Posts: 9155
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:45 am
Location: Narniabiznus

Re: Dear Abby: What do I do with this love poem?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Dubious wrote: Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:49 pm
It's not the worst love poem I ever read and there's certainly no line that's cornier than

Shall I compare thee to a summer's day
Thou art more lovely and more temperate

Could never figure out why this sonnet by Shakespeare is so famous. Those by Keats I think are far superior. When it comes to pure poetry, excluding plays, even Shakespeare is somewhat in arrears.
I suppose, in the same way that Beethoven's ninth symphony or Bach's preludes and fugues are corny.
Dubious
Posts: 2504
Joined: Tue May 19, 2015 7:40 am

Re: Dear Abby: What do I do with this love poem?

Post by Dubious »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:03 pm
Dubious wrote: Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:49 pm
It's not the worst love poem I ever read and there's certainly no line that's cornier than

Shall I compare thee to a summer's day
Thou art more lovely and more temperate

Could never figure out why this sonnet by Shakespeare is so famous. Those by Keats I think are far superior. When it comes to pure poetry, excluding plays, even Shakespeare is somewhat in arrears.
I suppose, in the same way that Beethoven's ninth symphony or Bach's preludes and fugues are corny.
You suppose wrong though I must admit I long ceased to be fond of the choral part of Beethoven's Ninth. The greatness of Beethoven's choral writing is contained in the Missa Solemnis which few people have ever listened to compared with "Freude, schöner Götterfunken".
surreptitious57
Posts: 4217
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:09 am

Re: Dear Abby: What do I do with this love poem?

Post by surreptitious57 »

Lacewin wrote:
surreptitious57 wrote:
Give the poem to your girlfriend and forget about this other woman who you may never see again anyway
If your girlfriend really loves you she would appreciate you taking the time and effort to write one to her
Oh I see ... lets see if the girlfriend really loves you by being fooled into thinking you had her in mind when you wrote about another

Seriously surreptitious57... that is the most fucked up energy. You are disgusting. What is wrong with you men
You masturbate yourselves in every lazy and superficial way you can think of and then blame it on women
I love how you automatically assume to know exactly what I was thinking when I wrote that post of mine
Nothing what you said there is remotely true and you could not actually be more wrong even if you tried

What I was actually thinking was what a wonderful thing it would be for her to get a poem from him. It would of course be absolutely conditional
on being genuine and he would also have to be truly sorry for even thinking about another woman and would never do so again as long as he was
with her. If neither of these conditions are met the poem does not get sent and he leaves her or confesses and then lets her decide what happens

You however seem to think that I was suggesting he just send her the poem with no conditions
attached and no acceptance of personal responsibility for what he did which is not true at all

Maybe next time you could ask for clarification instead of assuming the worst possible scenario
Last edited by surreptitious57 on Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
Lacewing
Posts: 4128
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:25 am

Re: Dear Abby: What do I do with this love poem?

Post by Lacewing »

surreptitious57 wrote: Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:15 pm Give the poem to your girlfriend and forget about this other woman who you may never see again anyway...
We're talking about "the poem". Sounds like you're saying he should give THAT poem to his girlfriend. Can you not see that? You didn't say "a poem", or "write a poem for your girlfriend". Maybe some responsibility for clearer communication is yours... instead of leaving it to other people to ask you for clarification.
surreptitious57 wrote: Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:15 pm What I was actually thinking was what a wonderful thing it would be for her to get a poem from him.
I thought that would be nice for her too. But in this case, she gets "seconds", no matter what. I think she deserves to know what she's dealing with.
surreptitious57 wrote: Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:15 pmIt would of course be absolutely conditional
on being genuine and he would also have to be truly sorry for even thinking about another woman and would never do so again as long as he was
with her. If neither of these conditions are met the poem does not get sent and he leaves her or confesses and then lets her decide what happens.
That sounds noble -- but I suspect that someone who has put as much effort into it as he has, is not inclined to be that way. He has someone who loves him and is apparently dedicated to him (he admits that)... and yet he's writing a love poem to someone else.
surreptitious57 wrote: Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:15 pm You however seem to think that I was suggesting he just send her the poem with no conditions
attached and no acceptance of personal responsibility for what he did which is not true at all
Well, why would I have thought otherwise? You didn't say anything else.

I could not realize that there was more to your character and position than you revealed. It's nice to know that you may not be that shallow? I take back my insult of you being disgusting. :)
surreptitious57
Posts: 4217
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:09 am

Re: Dear Abby: What do I do with this love poem?

Post by surreptitious57 »

Lacewin wrote:
surreptitious57 wrote:
Give the poem to your girlfriend and forget about this other woman who you may never see again anyway ...
We are talking about the poem. Sounds like you are saying he should give THAT poem to his girlfriend. Can you not see that. You didnt say
a poem or write a poem for your girlfriend. Maybe some responsibility for clearer communication is yours ... instead of leaving it to other
people to ask you for clarification
The poem he gives her is actually irrelevant because he would be just as guilty if his intention was not honourable
He could of course write another one just for her but unless it was absolutely genuine it would make no difference

The poem is not even the issue here but the betrayal and refusal to accept personal responsibility
Had he just given her his phone number instead then he would have been just as guilty of betrayal
User avatar
-1-
Posts: 2888
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:08 am

Re: Dear Abby: What do I do with this love poem?

Post by -1- »

I'm pulling out one hand from this thread, and then pulling the other one, and then slowly walk away.
Dalek Prime
Posts: 4922
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:48 am
Location: Living in a tree with Polly.

Re: Dear Abby: What do I do with this love poem?

Post by Dalek Prime »

Now you have me singing Three Dog Night:

'Just an old fashioned love song
One I'm sure they wrote for you and me
Just an old fashioned love song
Coming down in three part harmony'
Hanka
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:57 pm

Re: Dear Abby: What do I do with this love poem?

Post by Hanka »

-1- wrote: Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:42 am I joined several meet-up groups in my town.

I also have a lover that loves me like a child, and I love her. We get along fine, our relationship is ideal from her point of view, and very livable and optimum-perfect from my point of view.

But I have roving eyes.

I met a woman who charmed me out of my pants, and I wrote her a poem. I was planning to give it to her at a meeting, without any intention of leaving my girlfriend, or becoming two-timing.

I took the poem to a meeting where we played cards. The "other woman" was not having a good time and she left hastily.

Worse yet, the poem I had typed (printed) had fallen out of my pocket and I only noticed that on my way home, walking to the bus-stop.

Now, I don't know who found the poem. It could have fallen out at any point after leaving the house.

What do I do? Retype the poem and give it to the "other woman"? She's a dynamic person, she can get anyone by flicking her fingers, and she is nice on top of that, and good-looking. At least seventy-five hundred men are vying for her attention at any event she goes to. Giving her the poem would be a gesture to celebrate her womanhood, but I intend to stay with my gf.

What if I give her the poem and she had been given it by someone else who had found it? Her name or mine does not appear on the paper.

WTF? Why am I even entertaining the idea of giving her a poem when I am not at all willing to pursue her?
Very interesting post, guys always find themselves in such situations where, you rue a missed opportunity to something that might or might not have developed into anything, i say go for what your gut says. You could end up loosing out on what you've already built man, so stay put!
Post Reply