Death and Living

Can philosophers help resolve the real problems that people have in their lives?

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Osric
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Death and Living

Post by Osric » Tue Sep 20, 2016 6:22 am

I don't understand the meaning behind a finite and mortal life really. All I can do is come up with possibilities, but only in death will I hopefully find the answers I seek. Someone once said that everything happens for a reason, and when you find out why it will blow your mind. I hope there is some profound and greater reason for our existence. Life would seem kind of pointless without some purpose and meaning to it. Eat, procreate, sleep, clean, move, defecate, amuse yourself, work, did I forget anything? Those things seem like the basics of living. The simplicity of a lifestyle is almost boring and repetitive. I seek something greater out of life.

I often think we are alive just for amusement of a being or beings greater than ourselves. Maybe we are all part of one organism, much like the blood and cells are a part of us. Then again, maybe this is all some kind of game and the actual us are playing it on varying difficulties. I must have turned the difficulty up to about seven out of ten. I'd like to think the purpose of life is to experience pain, suffering, pleasure, and happiness. Experiencing all those things can lead one to an understanding about one's existence.

Where there is a winner, there is a loser. When someone commits to someone else, they deny other people attention and such. In order to survive, at least so far, one needs to inflict pain, suffering, and/or death on another organism. Everything we do has an impact on the world and organisms in it. It almost seems selfish to me to want to live like this. In fact, in my opinion most of us are guilty of being selfish if I think about life like that. We are all just bio machines trying to pass on our DNA to future generations. Almost everything we do if we are not at a certain point of enlightenment is to enhance our ability to reproduce. Sure there is some self enjoyment we get out of the things we have and the stuff we do, but why do we enjoy it? Because we are built to enjoy winning and being better than other people.

I think I have taken a different course, I want to end at least my own reproductive intentions and become something more pure of action and thought. However, I am only human and such a thing is hard for me. I get lonely, depressed, and angry at the world around me because I see the primal and evil basis in it. Part of the reason I have taken it upon myself to become an example is I am already a loser to begin with. I was destined to be alone and not reproduce. So naturally my thoughts lean towards things people don't often think about. because they don't have to think about them.

If I could, I would destroy all existence, leaving nothing, not even thought. Imagine how peaceful things would be. However, it is not my place to destroy the lives of those who are happy within it. I am the one who is miserable, and many others are as well. I wish I could just not exist. Is that really so much to ask for? Are losers created just to appease some sadistic sense of satisfaction for winners? Is that why we exist? I am the bottom of the totem pole, and I do not like being stuck there.

Why live a life of oppression under the strong, smart, and beautiful?

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Terrapin Station
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Re: Death and Living

Post by Terrapin Station » Tue Sep 20, 2016 12:50 pm

The only meaning and purpose you'll find are the meaning and purpose you create. So if that's what you desire, get to work. Create those things for yourself in a manner that you find satisfying.

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Lacewing
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Re: Death and Living

Post by Lacewing » Tue Sep 20, 2016 4:18 pm

Osric wrote:Someone once said that everything happens for a reason, and when you find out why it will blow your mind. I hope there is some profound and greater reason for our existence. Life would seem kind of pointless without some purpose and meaning to it.
I think the "reason" why everything happens as it does is because everything is CONNECTED. Depending on how a person tunes their mind, they pick up more on those frequencies because it's all connected. So whatever they think... they get more of. It's ALL available. Which means, this is a fantastic opportunity for seeing what we want to do with it. And to fully realize the extent of something like this, could be mind-blowing!

While "here", this physical life MUST feel solid and real and linear... in order to create the convincing and entertaining sensations and experience it creates. But beyond this earthly life, I'm guessing that none of our judgments and ideas apply. Beyond "this"... is REALLY BEYOND ALL OF THIS... which is also awesome! I think "we" are more than this... in that "we" are not even what we imagine "ourselves" to be. :-)

The fear and confusion comes when we try to apply what we think of "ourselves/here", to what we want to imagine of "beyond". I'm guessing they are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. Beyond here, there is no desire or need for that which we desire or need here. There is no desire or need for a certain identity or a certain experience, NOR for a certain meaning!!! Meaning is actually meaningless. :-) It's just what we make up in the moment, based on the circumstances.

What I want to do is flow with all of it... and love and enjoy it as it is... and be open always to more.

(Even when the topic is about Donald Trump, I'm already thinking of how to love and enjoy that cartoon ride and accept it as part of this experience. :-) )

MatejValuch
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Re: Death and Living

Post by MatejValuch » Tue Sep 20, 2016 5:08 pm

Thank you for being totally honest and open in your post. Highly appreciated.
I share some of your feelings, but I truly enjoy my everyday life, though.

I believe it's possible to live in harmony with other people and other organisms. Think vegan diet, for example (I'm on that ).
Also it's not true that there need to be winners and losers. The world functions like that today, true, and "the winners" cherish their little happiness from winning, that has but no real foundations and always diminishes quickly.

True lasting happiness is not in winning, and even though just a small percentage of people attains and lives this conclusion, it doesn't make it impossible to imagine that one day the majority will do so!

So, do not be sad. You see many things right, so try your best to change what you can, to make this Earth a better place for everyone. If that's not a great purpose worth living for, than I can't see one ;).

Dalek Prime
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Re: Death and Living

Post by Dalek Prime » Tue Sep 20, 2016 9:02 pm

Osric wrote:I don't understand the meaning behind a finite and mortal life really. All I can do is come up with possibilities, but only in death will I hopefully find the answers I seek. Someone once said that everything happens for a reason, and when you find out why it will blow your mind. I hope there is some profound and greater reason for our existence. Life would seem kind of pointless without some purpose and meaning to it. Eat, procreate, sleep, clean, move, defecate, amuse yourself, work, did I forget anything? Those things seem like the basics of living. The simplicity of a lifestyle is almost boring and repetitive. I seek something greater out of life.

I often think we are alive just for amusement of a being or beings greater than ourselves. Maybe we are all part of one organism, much like the blood and cells are a part of us. Then again, maybe this is all some kind of game and the actual us are playing it on varying difficulties. I must have turned the difficulty up to about seven out of ten. I'd like to think the purpose of life is to experience pain, suffering, pleasure, and happiness. Experiencing all those things can lead one to an understanding about one's existence.

Where there is a winner, there is a loser. When someone commits to someone else, they deny other people attention and such. In order to survive, at least so far, one needs to inflict pain, suffering, and/or death on another organism. Everything we do has an impact on the world and organisms in it. It almost seems selfish to me to want to live like this. In fact, in my opinion most of us are guilty of being selfish if I think about life like that. We are all just bio machines trying to pass on our DNA to future generations. Almost everything we do if we are not at a certain point of enlightenment is to enhance our ability to reproduce. Sure there is some self enjoyment we get out of the things we have and the stuff we do, but why do we enjoy it? Because we are built to enjoy winning and being better than other people.

I think I have taken a different course, I want to end at least my own reproductive intentions and become something more pure of action and thought. However, I am only human and such a thing is hard for me. I get lonely, depressed, and angry at the world around me because I see the primal and evil basis in it. Part of the reason I have taken it upon myself to become an example is I am already a loser to begin with. I was destined to be alone and not reproduce. So naturally my thoughts lean towards things people don't often think about. because they don't have to think about them.

If I could, I would destroy all existence, leaving nothing, not even thought. Imagine how peaceful things would be. However, it is not my place to destroy the lives of those who are happy within it. I am the one who is miserable, and many others are as well. I wish I could just not exist. Is that really so much to ask for? Are losers created just to appease some sadistic sense of satisfaction for winners? Is that why we exist? I am the bottom of the totem pole, and I do not like being stuck there.

Why live a life of oppression under the strong, smart, and beautiful?
Just don't have kids to repeat the folly,

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Death and Living

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Tue Sep 20, 2016 9:21 pm

Osric wrote:I don't understand the meaning behind a finite and mortal life really. All I can do is come up with possibilities, but only in death will I hopefully find the answers I seek. Someone once said that everything happens for a reason, and when you find out why it will blow your mind. I hope there is some profound and greater reason for our existence. Life would seem kind of pointless without some purpose and meaning to it. Eat, procreate, sleep, clean, move, defecate, amuse yourself, work, did I forget anything? Those things seem like the basics of living. The simplicity of a lifestyle is almost boring and repetitive. I seek something greater out of life.

I often think we are alive just for amusement of a being or beings greater than ourselves. Maybe we are all part of one organism, much like the blood and cells are a part of us. Then again, maybe this is all some kind of game and the actual us are playing it on varying difficulties. I must have turned the difficulty up to about seven out of ten. I'd like to think the purpose of life is to experience pain, suffering, pleasure, and happiness. Experiencing all those things can lead one to an understanding about one's existence.

Where there is a winner, there is a loser. When someone commits to someone else, they deny other people attention and such. In order to survive, at least so far, one needs to inflict pain, suffering, and/or death on another organism. Everything we do has an impact on the world and organisms in it. It almost seems selfish to me to want to live like this. In fact, in my opinion most of us are guilty of being selfish if I think about life like that. We are all just bio machines trying to pass on our DNA to future generations. Almost everything we do if we are not at a certain point of enlightenment is to enhance our ability to reproduce. Sure there is some self enjoyment we get out of the things we have and the stuff we do, but why do we enjoy it? Because we are built to enjoy winning and being better than other people.

I think I have taken a different course, I want to end at least my own reproductive intentions and become something more pure of action and thought. However, I am only human and such a thing is hard for me. I get lonely, depressed, and angry at the world around me because I see the primal and evil basis in it. Part of the reason I have taken it upon myself to become an example is I am already a loser to begin with. I was destined to be alone and not reproduce. So naturally my thoughts lean towards things people don't often think about. because they don't have to think about them.

If I could, I would destroy all existence, leaving nothing, not even thought. Imagine how peaceful things would be. However, it is not my place to destroy the lives of those who are happy within it. I am the one who is miserable, and many others are as well. I wish I could just not exist. Is that really so much to ask for? Are losers created just to appease some sadistic sense of satisfaction for winners? Is that why we exist? I am the bottom of the totem pole, and I do not like being stuck there.

Why live a life of oppression under the strong, smart, and beautiful?
You might see a 'loser', but I see a sensitive and thoughtful person who writes well. So-called 'winners' generally aren't what they are cracked up to be. Many are obnoxious narcissists with secret mental problems and addictions.

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Re: Death and Living

Post by Dubious » Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:12 am

Osric wrote:If I could, I would destroy all existence, leaving nothing, not even thought. Imagine how peaceful things would be.
What you're describing is impossible to imagine since non-existence and death are synonymous. The dead can't recall their existence or even what existence is. They default to the same non-existent state of never having existed. There are no 'organs' left to experience anything including peace. Time itself returns to zero implying that the peace you mention can only be imagined by the living aware of time simply as passing, as an even beat temporarily immune or wholly indifferent to internal dialog.
Why live a life of oppression under the strong, smart, and beautiful?
When actually present, strong, smart and beautiful are qualities which are less oppressive than expressive. In any event, as human traits they exist to a very limited degree. Many are conditioned by corruption, by the impression of intelligence through education and by the profuse application of both makeup and Photoshop which can morph any mediocrity into a beauty.

The strong, smart, and beautiful as expressed by the media are mostly false connotations. For example, why are the majority - who are mostly idiots - so impressed with Royalty? They're nothing but a bunch of useless twits living off the state but treated as if they were still God's anointed. Not much different for other media darlings.

ken
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Re: Death and Living

Post by ken » Wed Sep 21, 2016 11:29 am

Osric wrote:I don't understand the meaning behind a finite and mortal life really. All I can do is come up with possibilities, but only in death will I hopefully find the answers I seek.
I apologize in advance but what you are hoping for in death can not and will not come to fruition.

Answers are found here in Life, not in death.

But anyway, what are the answers you are seeking?
Osric wrote:Someone once said that everything happens for a reason, and when you find out why it will blow your mind.
I will also have to add in advance that everything I say here in this thread, and in this forum, is proposed as only My view. Nothing is said as being fixed as right nor wrong. This is just the way I see things.

Besides the fact that that someone who said that quote could probably not explain to you what the Mind actually is, let alone explain how exactly something could blow that Mind, that person was right in that everything does happen for a reason, and when you do find out why, that revelation will be greater and more fulfilling than you could have ever imagined previously.
Osric wrote: I hope there is some profound and greater reason for our existence.
There is, but what do you mean by 'greater reason'? What reason do you know of now?
Osric wrote: Life would seem kind of pointless without some purpose and meaning to it.
If these are some of the answers you are seeking, then they are very easily found.

To find the meaning of 'Life', then where is the best place to find the meaning or definition for any word? I found the meaning of Life in a dictionary. 'Life' was said to mean living, being, and that fitted perfectly with everything else I was discovering and uncovering.

To find the purpose of 'Life', living and being alive, is done by making sense of being alive and living, while you are here. Making sense can not be done in death. There is no purpose in making Life worse. That would just not make any sense at all, well to Me anyway. So, the only sensible purpose to Life would be to make 'It', living and being alive, better for everyone. Like as matejvaluch also suggested, to make earth a better place for everyone is a great purpose worth living for. I see that making living here on earth better for everyone is the only real and true purpose, because there is true purpose in making living and life worse for anyone.
Osric wrote: Eat, procreate, sleep, clean, move, defecate, amuse yourself, work, did I forget anything? Those things seem like the basics of living. The simplicity of a lifestyle is almost boring and repetitive.
Everything is relative to the observer. How any adult looks at Life and the lifestyle they choose to live is solely depended upon how they choose to and want to observe Life and their lifestyle. "Boring" and "repetitive" is only a view people put onto Life, and thus into their own lives. Some adult human beings complain about not having enough time to do things they want to do while others complain of the boredom, but every other living animal on the planet just lives and stays alive, obviously until it dies.
Osric wrote: I seek something greater out of life.
Greater than what exactly?
Osric wrote:I often think we are alive just for amusement of a being or beings greater than ourselves.
Is there or could there be any being greater, or lesser, than another?
Osric wrote: Maybe we are all part of one organism, much like the blood and cells are a part of us.
The maybe actually a greater Truth in this remark then realized here?
Osric wrote: Then again, maybe this is all some kind of game and the actual us are playing it on varying difficulties.
There is also a a lot of Truth in this remark, but there is no varying difficulties as such for adults, but some children do have varying degrees on difficulties thrust upon them, which does influence how they then observe later on in their lives. But, the actual 'us', playing this game of Life here and now, are just actors. And, we will stay this way until who/what we really are is known. Then instead of play acting in this game, we will be playing the game how it is meant to be played, like how all games are meant to be played, that is, for fun. There will then be no winners nor losers.
Osric wrote: I must have turned the difficulty up to about seven out of ten. I'd like to think the purpose of life is to experience pain, suffering, pleasure, and happiness. Experiencing all those things can lead one to an understanding about one's existence.
The purpose of Life is not to experience those things, because, if one lives long enough ALL of those things will be experienced anyway, no matter what. Experiencing internal feelings and emotions is just a natural part of Life. Experiencing anything and everything that one does is a part of Life, not the purpose of Life.
Osric wrote:Where there is a winner, there is a loser.
What do you mean by 'winner' and 'loser'? How does one become a 'winner' or 'loser'? How do you think there could be a winner and a loser?
Osric wrote: When someone commits to someone else, they deny other people attention and such.
Is that not just a natural part of living and being alive?
Osric wrote: In order to survive, at least so far, one needs to inflict pain, suffering, and/or death on another organism. Everything we do has an impact on the world and organisms in it. It almost seems selfish to me to want to live like this.
To live like what exactly?

Every animal/organism wants to keep living, and if in order to survive that other organisms are killed, then so be it. The only thing we can do to be less selfish as human beings is to lessen the impact on all living organisms as much as we can.
Osric wrote: In fact, in my opinion most of us are guilty of being selfish if I think about life like that.
"Most" of us, I would say, if we are truly honest with ourselves, then ALL of us, adults, are guilty of being selfish.
Osric wrote: We are all just bio machines trying to pass on our DNA to future generations. Almost everything we do if we are not at a certain point of enlightenment is to enhance our ability to reproduce.

Sure there is some self enjoyment we get out of the things we have and the stuff we do, but why do we enjoy it? Because we are built to enjoy winning and being better than other people.
I think it is to reduce pain and increase pleasure that is why.

I, for one, do not necessarily enjoy winning. 'Winning' for Me does not reduce pain nor increase pleasure, and I certainly know that I am NOT better than any other person. So, to your logic, either I am not built that way your propose or I am not a human being.
Osric wrote:I think I have taken a different course, I want to end at least my own reproductive intentions and become something more pure of action and thought.
Could you become more pure of action and thought AND still reproduce?

Do not all species want to keep their species surviving?
Osric wrote:However, I am only human and such a thing is hard for me.
Pure thought and action is not necessarily that hard to do, you just need to let go of one's self, but in order to do that one needs to know who/what they are first to fully understand how exactly to let one's self go. This may sound absurd and contradictory but actually it is not. Through a natural process of change how this all comes about is revealed, discovered and know, and with know-how it is very easily achieved.
Osric wrote: I get lonely, depressed, and angry at the world around me because I see the primal and evil basis in it.
Is there any adult that does not get these feelings at certain particular times in their lives?

I found that by not looking at and not saying, "I get lonely, depressed, et cetera, because of ...", I just accept I feel a certain way, because it is perfectly normal to feel the way one does in absolutely any situation that they find themselves, but this way that I am feeling at that moment is not what drives Me. The feeling is a signal of what is going on around Me but what drives Me is the choice(s) I make next.
Osric wrote: Part of the reason I have taken it upon myself to become an example is I am already a loser to begin with.
A "loser" of what exactly? And, how exactly do you think you are a "loser"?

If we want to refer to losers and winners in Life and death, then we all know the obvious outcome. We, human beings, when born alive and living are the winners, but none of us winners are going to be winners forever. We all lose the game of Life when we die, obviously. Not one person is different as winner or a loser, from this perspective.
Osric wrote: I was destined to be alone and not reproduce.
'Destined'?

If you are able to reproduce or not depends solely on your reproductive ability. What is destined is not yet over. And, if you will be alone or not is depended upon what you choose to do.

So naturally my thoughts lean towards things people don't often think about. because they don't have to think about them.
Osric wrote:If I could, I would destroy all existence, leaving nothing, not even thought. Imagine how peaceful things would be.
If there is no thing existing, they yes I could imagine how exactly peaceful that would be. I think the silence would be "deafening".
Osric wrote: However, it is not my place to destroy the lives of those who are happy within it.

I am the one who is miserable, and many others are as well. I wish I could just not exist.


How long have you wished that for?

I lived all of my remembered childhood wishing that I was never born. Then I lived about the same period of time after that not even thinking about existing or not, but then I started wishing the same again and still do, on and off occasions.
Osric wrote: Is that really so much to ask for?
It is a bit late after the event, to be wishing otherwise. In fact from conception it was too late to ask for anything different.
Osric wrote:Are losers created just to appease some sadistic sense of satisfaction for winners?
Personally I can not see losers in Life. I just see that all of us alive are winners and winning.
Osric wrote:Is that why we exist?
Why we exist is to bear witness to what we can and do create. We can either make Life, and living, better for everyone, we can make It better for some and not others, or we can make it worse for everyone. It is our choice what we do and thus create for ourselves.
Osric wrote: I am the bottom of the totem pole, and I do not like being stuck there.
There is no actual totem pole in Life. There is only different ways of looking, observing, seeing, and understanding Life.
Osric wrote:Why live a life of oppression under the strong, smart, and beautiful?
There is no one person who is stronger, smarter, nor more beautiful than another.

But that might just be because of the way I look and observe what is going on around Me.

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Re: Death and Living

Post by attofishpi » Sat Sep 24, 2016 4:07 pm

osric wrote:Death and Living
I think living should probably have been stated before death, but ne way. Knowing there is a God\'God' that has the ability to judge the way you have conducted yourself during 'life' - it is imperative that one adheres to a sense of morality some of which guidance was commanded within tablets.

To negate and allow ourselves to will and wind a way against what we were all warned of will ultimately render us in a 'lesser' life on reincarnation.

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Re: Death and Living

Post by Walker » Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:45 pm

Osric wrote:I get lonely, depressed, and angry at the world around me because I see the primal and evil basis in it.
I know what you mean.

Those who have the most have the most to cling to, will lose the most, will suffer the most for the clinging, and so deserve the most compassion. What you gave and give will be returned to you, and you cannot control that. I think the best you can do is inform youngsters what is good about them, so they remember this when the inevitable regrets begin to enfold them.

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