Why Suffering is a Good Thing

Can philosophers help resolve the real problems that people have in their lives?

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dionisos
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Re: Why Suffering is a Good Thing

Post by dionisos »

Suffering is intrinsically bad.
Sometime, it could be instrumentally good, but the only case i see, is when it is used to avoid a worse suffering.
Dalek Prime
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Re: Why Suffering is a Good Thing

Post by Dalek Prime »

Jaded Sage wrote:I want you to know there is an end to the type of suffering you describe, and I for one, have achieved it, thanks to the 4 Noble Truths. It is possible.
Are you a parent, JS? If you are, you've begun a new cycle of harm and suffering. If not, you have truly ended harm and suffering, and I commend you.
Jaded Sage
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Re: Why Suffering is a Good Thing

Post by Jaded Sage »

Dalek Prime wrote:
Jaded Sage wrote:I want you to know there is an end to the type of suffering you describe, and I for one, have achieved it, thanks to the 4 Noble Truths. It is possible.
Are you a parent, JS? If you are, you've begun a new cycle of harm and suffering. If not, you have truly ended harm and suffering, and I commend you.
Nope, I'm not. But I totally agree. Actually, this helped me in my decision not to have kids quite a bit. I appreciate it.
Dalek Prime
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Re: Why Suffering is a Good Thing

Post by Dalek Prime »

Jaded Sage wrote:
Dalek Prime wrote:
Jaded Sage wrote:I want you to know there is an end to the type of suffering you describe, and I for one, have achieved it, thanks to the 4 Noble Truths. It is possible.
Are you a parent, JS? If you are, you've begun a new cycle of harm and suffering. If not, you have truly ended harm and suffering, and I commend you.
Nope, I'm not. But I totally agree. Actually, this helped me in my decision not to have kids quite a bit. I appreciate it.
I'm super impressed. Good on you, JS!
osgart
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Re: Why Suffering is a Good Thing

Post by osgart »

Suffering isnt just feeling pain. Its facing your pain with courage. So that way wandering lands is entirely right.
Suffering is an art. Its looking at your pain as a detective and being honest with yourself.
Otherwise your masking the pain and it is still there.
Suffering is how we come to know ourselves. Suffering is work.
Just feeling pain is good to heal. But you must suffer it to grow.
Like the death of a loved one. After suffering it you start celebrating the person who died and they live on in your heart and their life is meaningful and alive even though their dead.
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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: Why Suffering is a Good Thing

Post by Hobbes' Choice »

WanderingLands wrote:Here's why suffering is actually a good thing that could happen to a person.

The reason(s) why suffering is actually good for a person is because it is part of a process of thinking and the start of a long spiritual path to Enlightenment and Liberation from the Material world.
Being liberated from the material world is the same as DEATH, and there is no reason to suffer to die.
A bullet in the head is apparently one good way.
Or sitting in your garage with the car running is completely painless.
Death is a end to suffering, so you have the whole thing backwards.
Walker
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Re: Why Suffering is a Good Thing

Post by Walker »

osgart wrote:Suffering isnt just feeling pain. Its facing your pain with courage. So that way wandering lands is entirely right.
Suffering is an art. Its looking at your pain as a detective and being honest with yourself.
Otherwise your masking the pain and it is still there.
Suffering is how we come to know ourselves. Suffering is work.
Just feeling pain is good to heal. But you must suffer it to grow.
Like the death of a loved one. After suffering it you start celebrating the person who died and they live on in your heart and their life is meaningful and alive even though their dead.
The shenanigans in this link corrupts the worth of suffering.

This is what happens when freedom of speech is equated with freedom of expression.

Perhaps it's performance art:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dG2QBeIRfvc
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GreatandWiseTrixie
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Re: Why Suffering is a Good Thing

Post by GreatandWiseTrixie »

WanderingLands wrote: Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:40 amI believe that judging from my own dark experiences of alienation and loneliness, and from reading up on Eastern Philosophy aswell as Western Philosophy (Stoicism and a bit of Existentialism), that everybody has this huge void metaphorically inside themselves. It is a void of wanting something, but not being able or having the strength to look deep into what it is.
I had this void too. This void was not having lesbian porn in my life. See my thread called "I tried to watch porn but." But lesbian porn did not satisfy this void, for it was 240p at first, and had annoying voice acting. The only thing that will satisfy this void is if I myself, am a Lesbian inside of a Virtual reality anime, with real sensory feeling, preferably designed by Bandai Namco games, or SEGA.
Bryno_89
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Re: Why Suffering is a Good Thing

Post by Bryno_89 »

The Voice of Time wrote: Thu Apr 03, 2014 2:49 am
You mean to go nuts? Yeah, I can see how suffering can help a person go nuts. What follows is going to be a ridicule of your crazy talk:

Kill yourself... the easiest way of liberating yourself from the material world ^^ You cease to exist, a corpse takes your place and lots of worms are gonna be really happy.
I don't think you're being very fair to the guy here. He seems to just be saying that hardship, of any kind, is what leads to growth; not arbitrary misery, but the kind of suffering which triggers innovation, work, artistic creation, and personal growth. I don't see how you can argue otherwise to be honest. If you've ever met anyone who has spent their entire life avoiding pain, seeking comfort and stasis, they were probably pretty pathetic; such people are usually anxious, afraid, incapable, boring, and morally weak. You need to go out into the world and expose yourself to uncomfortable situations to grow. Or to word it more basically, you need to suffer a little to grow as a person.

At no point did he say that suffering is good in and of itself. He just said that it leads to different ways of thinking. I don't think he explained himself very well but you know he wasn't saying that ultimate suffering - just killing yourself or whatever - is desirable.
Gary Childress
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Re: Why Suffering is a Good Thing

Post by Gary Childress »

Bryno_89 wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:29 am
The Voice of Time wrote: Thu Apr 03, 2014 2:49 am
You mean to go nuts? Yeah, I can see how suffering can help a person go nuts. What follows is going to be a ridicule of your crazy talk:

Kill yourself... the easiest way of liberating yourself from the material world ^^ You cease to exist, a corpse takes your place and lots of worms are gonna be really happy.
I don't think you're being very fair to the guy here. He seems to just be saying that hardship, of any kind, is what leads to growth; not arbitrary misery, but the kind of suffering which triggers innovation, work, artistic creation, and personal growth. I don't see how you can argue otherwise to be honest. If you've ever met anyone who has spent their entire life avoiding pain, seeking comfort and stasis, they were probably pretty pathetic; such people are usually anxious, afraid, incapable, boring, and morally weak. You need to go out into the world and expose yourself to uncomfortable situations to grow. Or to word it more basically, you need to suffer a little to grow as a person.

At no point did he say that suffering is good in and of itself. He just said that it leads to different ways of thinking. I don't think he explained himself very well but you know he wasn't saying that ultimate suffering - just killing yourself or whatever - is desirable.
I don't know. I mean, taking the example of physical suffering, I think few people who break an arm or something say afterward, "thank goodness I broke my arm. It helped me to..." No. Your arm was broken and you had to sit out of important activities for a while as a result. It set you back. It was painful and it didn't help you in any way. It's kind of strange to me how psychological suffering is seen by some as somehow different. I've seen a lot of broken people who have suffered a lot in this world. You find them at homeless shelters or support groups for depression and other mental illnesses and such. They suffer quite a bit (for real) and it doesn't appear to be helping them. In fact there are all manner of psychologically debilitating and dysfunctional habits that form around mental suffering. It's not a good thing. Avoid it if you can.
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Dontaskme
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Re: Why Suffering is a Good Thing

Post by Dontaskme »

WanderingLands wrote: Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:40 am Here's why suffering is actually a good thing that could happen to a person.

Suffering is a very good thing for a person because it's not pleasant for a person to suffer, so the person tries to escape the suffering by realising there never was any person that suffered and that suffering is just part and parcel of conscious being as every other feeling sensation and emotion is. There is no person being a conscious being, no one owns conscious being, that belief is just an insufferable pointless un-necessary suffering, and once that is realised then there is just the acceptance and non-resistence to the suffering...you see, fighting with what cannot be stopped or controlled is just more suffering, might as well just let it all happen and have it's wicked way with you, and remember, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Life was meant to bear suffering, else it wouldn't be here at all. You just have to suck it all up, as if you had any other choice.

.
gaffo
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Re: Why Suffering is a Good Thing

Post by gaffo »

WanderingLands wrote: Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:40 am Here's why suffering is actually a good thing that could happen to a person.

The reason(s) why suffering is actually good for a person is because it is part of a process of thinking and the start of a long spiritual path to Enlightenment and Liberation from the Material world. I believe that judging from my own dark experiences of alienation and loneliness, and from reading up on Eastern Philosophy aswell as Western Philosophy (Stoicism and a bit of Existentialism), that everybody has this huge void metaphorically inside themselves. It is a void of wanting something, but not being able or having the strength to look deep into what it is. I believe that this is why people, in the modern era, turn to looking for material things for long term pleasure; because they are unwilling to explore philosophy, let alone sometimes even explore deep into their religion that they were brought up in for a start.

Even when they are satisfied by material enchantments, there is still the void that is "coped", or shall I say suppressed, in order to keep the material pleasures going and keep the status approval of peers in society. It is only when they embrace the void, and thus embrace suffering by searching, that they start to cultivate their true selves.
agreed.

refer to Buddism and Book of Job.
gaffo
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Re: Why Suffering is a Good Thing

Post by gaffo »

WanderingLands wrote: Thu Apr 03, 2014 7:50 pm [

Something that's desirable and something that's good for us can be two different things, as with the case of suffering.


agreed, IMO you have wisdom, just from the above, i see this.

wish you well Sir.,,,,,,,the wise are lonely ;-/.
gaffo
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Re: Why Suffering is a Good Thing

Post by gaffo »

WanderingLands wrote: Sat Apr 05, 2014 3:23 pm I like your post, Felasco. You have definitely captured what I was saying, though yours was put differently than mine.

Now, it is correct that life is like a ball, where it is thrown (birth), it flies up (life), but it falls (old age), and then it hits the ground (death). It is true that life is like a ball; however, many people always want more from it. Many think they can get it from material pleassure; others try to become more healthier (even try to find eternal life), and more stronger.

I would also like to add that seeking things is a good thing, as a way to overcoming things (I see that Frederich Nietszche was mentioned on this thread), but it is also good to be content with where you are and to not get worked up over perfection. That way, you can be content with suffering, and which can thus be let go and just live life.
you are talking about the virtue Humility.
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The Voice of Time
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Re: Why Suffering is a Good Thing

Post by The Voice of Time »

Bryno_89 wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:29 am
The Voice of Time wrote: Thu Apr 03, 2014 2:49 am
You mean to go nuts? Yeah, I can see how suffering can help a person go nuts. What follows is going to be a ridicule of your crazy talk:

Kill yourself... the easiest way of liberating yourself from the material world ^^ You cease to exist, a corpse takes your place and lots of worms are gonna be really happy.
I don't think you're being very fair to the guy here. He seems to just be saying that hardship, of any kind, is what leads to growth; not arbitrary misery, but the kind of suffering which triggers innovation, work, artistic creation, and personal growth. I don't see how you can argue otherwise to be honest. If you've ever met anyone who has spent their entire life avoiding pain, seeking comfort and stasis, they were probably pretty pathetic; such people are usually anxious, afraid, incapable, boring, and morally weak. You need to go out into the world and expose yourself to uncomfortable situations to grow. Or to word it more basically, you need to suffer a little to grow as a person.

At no point did he say that suffering is good in and of itself. He just said that it leads to different ways of thinking. I don't think he explained himself very well but you know he wasn't saying that ultimate suffering - just killing yourself or whatever - is desirable.
With ~6 years extra to ponder, I'm going to be a bit more direct: my point, or at least the point I'd like to make now, is that suffering is not something good in and of itself.

I've suffered a lot in my life, as have many of us, and while I may be able to guess that some of my strengths have come from it, I can also easily see it the other way around that all my weaknesses have come from suffering which has repressed my abilities to grow in a desirable direction. But I think either way is the wrong way to think of it. It makes just as much sense to me to presume that we could have a life of abundant growth with barely any suffering, as it is to succumb to this idea that because I have had an experience of suffering from which I gained something, therefore the suffering part of that experience is necessary or good.
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