occupying wall street - will it do any good

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Pluto
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Re: occupying wall street - will it do any good

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Ron de Weijze wrote:Pluto, activism high or low in the elitist hierarchy or power-distance fabric between people is very bad to me, even when only a percentage of the people just go with the flow, because of the submission/dominance and distancing that is taking place at the bottom, by the people for the sake of the group, or at the top, by the group for the sake of the top dog. The power makes people unequal and the distancing sets people apart, as much as mobbing seems to do the opposite, making equal and bringing together. It is a false positive. What happens in groups between people is not the bottom line - what happens in people between groups is, imho.
It seems to me that what you say already exists in our present system.
Ron de Weijze
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Re: occupying wall street - will it do any good

Post by Ron de Weijze »

It is fine with me if people can say why they do what they do, in line with what they have always believed, said and done, without there ever having been any special endorsement for it by acquiring special privileges over others that way via the group (groupsism) or via the Maecenas (cronyism). Any group that is formed or forms that way, is a fine group, left or right. People in groups who adapt without losing themselves or who are their own person without isolating themselves, can and should confirm each other that way, almost religiously.
Pluto
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Re: occupying wall street - will it do any good

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From reading about a number of contemporary activist type groups I get the impression that your concerns of what happens to people in groups is also a concern of those groups. I heard a young woman participant at occupy wall street say that what they were doing was not just a protest but an attempt to show or illustrate a different way of being together in groups. Talk of a non-hierarchical and leaderless structure seems to be being thought out live. Whether this is possible we don't know but they are experimenting with the idea, which for me, is exciting and commendable.

If group activism is problematic, do you see improved ways of reaching the goals that the protesters seek? Or do you think that the protesters should not protest at all?
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Re: occupying wall street - will it do any good

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Last edited by Ron de Weijze on Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
tbieter
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Re: occupying wall street - will it do any good

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Arising_uk wrote:I thank you very much for this Tom. As I have been looking for philosophical economic and social ammo for the creation of a new political party to address the UK's current issues.
A successful worker cooperative. http://www.citybikes.coop/about-citybikes/the-co-op/

I almost ordered this last night. http://www.citybikes.coop/bikes/biria-top-3/ But, then I said "Tom, you don't need four bikes." :cry:
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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: occupying wall street - will it do any good

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Occupy Wall Street-style protests spread to Britain


By William Kennedy for msnbc.com

LONDON — A young woman spray-paints the final letter on a floral-patterned sheet. Unfurled it reads: "Occupy London, 15 Oct, occupylsx.org."

The small group of assembled activists applaud its look. “I love the kitschiness of it. It’s so ‘Laura Ashley’ English — perfect for a protest,” one says, namechecking the British brand known for its prim-and-proper fashions.

Inspired by the Occupy Wall Street protests on the other side of the Atlantic, demonstrators plan to establish a tent city in London’s City financial district next weekend.

Protests aimed at policies on Wall Street have spread to 45 cities across the US as consistently large crowds continue to occupy the financial district in New York City. NBC's Lilia Luciano reports.

“The Wall Street protests sort of inspired everything,” said Kai Wargalla, who co-created the Occupy London Facebook group. “It was just time to start here. We need people to step up and speak out.”

This movement aims to unite the United Kingdom’s far-flung activist communities in addressing "the inequality of the financial system," Wargalla said.

'Not just dirty hippies'
The dozen hipster-chic men and women making signs on Saturday in a funky, tropical-themed club in north London’s Hackney borough have varied protest backgrounds. Some come from "Free Bradley Manning" and anti-nuclear campaigns, others from the Spanish 15-M movement, which occupied Madrid on May 15.

“These people are rightfully complaining about a lot of things,” said Matthew Slatter, an activist programmer with a theology degree. “They’re not just dirty hippies.”








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The mood was upbeat as aerosol fumes rose past African drums, palm tree cutouts and a faded pennant seeking to "Free Mohammed Hamid" — a street preacher who called himself "Osama bin London". He was convicted in 2008 of running terrorist training camps in the U.K.

“We’re the beginning of something,” said Ronan McNern, a member of U.K. rights group Queer Resistance who has a background in public relations. “People are not stakeholders in democracy, in the workings of the nation anymore. This [movement] gives a lot of hope for the future.”

Occupy London's members largely identify with the "We are the 99 Percent" slogan made popular by protesters in the U.S.

"There's something about the fact that 15,000 people are trying to march down Wall Street that is uniquely exciting," said Naomi Colvin, an activist who worked to get alleged Wikileaker Bradley Manning out of confinement "What’s happening in Wall Street is in a way a culmination of things that have gone on in southern Europe and the Middle East."
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“We’re asking the government to be more accountable for regulating [the financial sector] in the interests of a few people, rather than the majority.


“Having a group of tents somewhere in London is quite symbolic,” she added. “This is now a city that most of the people working in can’t really afford to live in.”

By Sunday morning, Occupy London had more than 1,500 followers on Twitter and 3,000 had signed up to attend next weekend's event near the London Stock Exchange.

“I think it will only get stronger of time, just as we’ve seen in Wall Street,” Wargalla said.

But that will not be easy, McNern warned. “To sustain something like this in the British winter will be a nightmare,” he said.









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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: occupying wall street - will it do any good

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As movement spreads, NY mayor slams protesters for 'trying to destroy' jobs

By the CNN Wire Staff
updated 10:55 PM EST, Sat October 8, 2011


NEW: The NYPD reports no protest-related arrests on Saturday
New York's mayor says some protester concerns "are legit, some aren't"
Bloomberg says protests that target banks are also targeting critical tax revenue
A protest spokesman says Bloomberg "hasn't represented all of New Yorkers"

New York (CNN) -- As the Occupy Wall Street movement grew and touched even more U.S. cities Saturday, the mayor of the city where it began blasted many involved and claimed they were targeting the nation's financial sector and "trying to destroy the jobs of working people" in New York City.

The protest effort continued into its 22nd day in New York on Saturday. Yet its spread well beyond that city, with its anti-corporation, anti-government message echoing in many places this weekend -- from Cleveland to Las Vegas, from Washington to Prescott, Arizona.

Yet this growing fervor has been met, in some cases, by vocal commentary. That includes New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg, who in a WOR radio appearance Friday said that city's labor unions -- many of whom swelled demonstrator ranks earlier this week -- depend on salaries that "come from the taxes paid by the people they're trying to vilify."

The mayor did describe the city's unemployment rate as "unacceptably high," and acknowledged that "a lot of people are disaffected."

"Some are legit, some aren't," Bloomberg said, describing the concerns of the demonstrators in Lower Manhattan.

His comments coincided with the city's announcement that 700 education workers will be laid off in an effort to close a budget gap. They also follow recently released census data that shows New York's poverty level has increased to 20.1%, the highest in more than a decade.

The remarks drew criticism from Tyler Combelic, a spokesman for Occupy Wall Street, who claimed Bloomberg "hasn't really represented all of New Yorkers."

"The fact is there are thousands and thousands of us out on the streets, and he's not really recognizing that we're a movement," Combelic told CNN on Saturday. "We should be heard by New York politicians."

On Saturday, New York protesters set up a second base at Washington Square Park. The park in Greenwich Village is about two miles north of Zuccotti Park, a private park that's been considered the main rallying point for the largely leaderless movement in the city.

A rally was held in Washington Square, followed by a now-customary people's assembly to discuss the movement and an art show Saturday evening. Demonstrators won't stay overnight at Washington Square Park, unlike Zuccotti, because it is a municipal park with a midnight curfew.

As of 9 p.m., the New York Police Department did not report any related arrests.

The ambiguously defined movement against corporate greed and other social ills has spread to more than a dozen cities, spurred lately by support from unions and other groups.

"Social and economic inequalities are the tipping point, and people are hungry for getting involved and trying to do something to change it," Jim Nichols, who has been involved in Occupy Atlanta protests, told CNN on Saturday. "It's almost like, I want the American dream back."

Even before Bloomberg's comments Saturday, the effort was stirring a growing number of strong reactions from public figures.

President Barack Obama, even as he defended the need for a vibrant financial sector, acknowledged that the protesters "are giving voice to a more broad-based frustration about how our financial system works." The No. 2 Republican in the U.S. House of Representatives, Eric Cantor, meanwhile, slammed what he called the "growing mobs" who he claimed were "pitting ... Americans against Americans."

On Saturday, U.S. Rep. Charles Rangel backed the demonstrators -- whom he has been visiting regularly over the past three weeks -- for venting their frustrations and exercising their constitutional rights.

"Their dreams are being shattered," Rangel told CNN's Don Lemon. "They may be an inconvenience to a whole lot of people in that area, but people are going to sleep at night with an economic nightmare."

The New York Democrat urged "more spiritual leaders" to join a movement he claimed championed the poor and disadvantaged, saying "there's no moral reason why they have to wait for something to catch on." He also dismissed criticism that the demonstrators don't have a coherent purpose, saying despite their varied issues and lack of organization, their sentiments are raw and real.

"They don't have to know what the solution is," he said. "There's one thing they know is (there's) something wrong when so many people are out of work, and we find the disparity with the very rich. ... Something is wrong."


Combelic, the New York spokesman, said the movement chiefly is trying to showcase "active democracy and (show that) everyone has a voice in government." He said the protests -- which have been associated with progressive causes -- are "a rebuke of government, that includes the left and the right."

"We're trying to broaden the discussion base. ... We're trying to represent 99% of the country that's felt disenfranchised over the past five years because of the recession," Combelic said. "(Politicians) have not come together, they've not compromised on anything, and there's a reason why there's (low) congressional approval in this country."

The demonstrations have been largely peaceful. But in New York, some have been marred by scuffles with police.

Last Saturday, police made hundreds of arrests as demonstrators marched without a permit toward the Brooklyn Bridge, blocking city traffic for hours.

A week earlier, authorities detained dozens of protesters as they marched, also without a permit, through Manhattan's financial district toward Union Square.








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Pluto
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Re: occupying wall street - will it do any good

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Spain's indignados protesters reach Brussels

http://video.couriermail.com.au/2150431 ... h-Brussels
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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: occupying wall street - will it do any good

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Gary Childress
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Re: occupying wall street - will it do any good

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"occupying wall street - will it do any good"

I have to admit I'm sort of vexed on the issue. On the one hand, I sympathize with all the people out there who don't have jobs. It's tough going in this economy today. On the other I have a job probably because I go above and beyond in kissing corporate butt. I can't afford not to. I don't want to find myself out on the street homeless so I do what it takes to please my company. I buy some of my own office supplies. I don't complain when I have to work overtime or stay late. I recently turned down tuition reimbursement because I don't want to put my head above radar as someone who just wants to take everything he can from the company. I give everything I can to the company I work for in hopes that I can keep my job. Part of keeping my job means staying on the good ideological graces of upper management. I don't make waves. If I did I'd probably be out on the street in a heartbeat. So while I sympathize with the protestors I can't really afford to. So my official position on the protestors is that they are just misfits and troublemakers. But the other half of me knows better. :oops:
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Re: occupying wall street - will it do any good

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chaz wyman
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Re: occupying wall street - will it do any good

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Gary Childress wrote:"occupying wall street - will it do any good"

I have to admit I'm sort of vexed on the issue. On the one hand, I sympathize with all the people out there who don't have jobs. It's tough going in this economy today. On the other I have a job probably because I go above and beyond in kissing corporate butt. I can't afford not to. I don't want to find myself out on the street homeless so I do what it takes to please my company. I buy some of my own office supplies. I don't complain when I have to work overtime or stay late. I recently turned down tuition reimbursement because I don't want to put my head above radar as someone who just wants to take everything he can from the company. I give everything I can to the company I work for in hopes that I can keep my job. Part of keeping my job means staying on the good ideological graces of upper management. I don't make waves. If I did I'd probably be out on the street in a heartbeat. So while I sympathize with the protestors I can't really afford to. So my official position on the protestors is that they are just misfits and troublemakers. But the other half of me knows better. :oops:
This whole thing happened back in 1929.
Afterwards there were regulations put in place to control the worst excesses of cheating on the market.
In the last few years these regulations and rules has been swept aways as being out-of-date.
Guess what- the whole shit storm has happened again.
We should have had this debate 3 years ago.
No one seems to be interested in mobilising international accords to deal with the global financial markets.
If it takes a person to shit on a police-car to get people do take notice then drop your pants, and get on with it.
The sad fact is the the people in charge have become rich on the market, and are continuing to enrich themselves on the crash.
Things have got to change or the 99% will be living in the gutter, whilst the 1% continue to get their goods from foreign lands.
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Re: occupying wall street - will it do any good

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By Carmel Lobello Monday, October 10, 2011





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This weekend, the board of directors of Ben & Jerry’s published a statement of solidarity with Occupy Wall Street,
saying “The issues raised [by the protesters] are of fundamental importance to all of us,” and that they “support this call to action and are honored to join you in this call to take back our nation and democracy.”

With this statement, Ben & Jerry’s became the first large company to publicly step out in favor of the 99%. It’s not entirely surprising—the ice cream maker, which brings to mind tie-die t-shirts, The Band and older bearded men smoking weed, has been socially active since its inception in 1978, and has retained that as part of its image even after being bought by Unilever in 2000.

In their statement they said:

We, the Ben & Jerry’s Board of Directors, compelled by our personal convictions and our Company’s mission and values, wish to express our deepest admiration to all of you who have initiated the non-violent Occupy Wall Street Movement and to those around the country who have joined in solidarity. The issues raised are of fundamental importance to all of us. These include:

-The inequity that exists between classes in our country is simply immoral.
-We are in an unemployment crisis. Almost 14 million people are unemployed. Nearly 20% of African American men are unemployed. Over 25% of our nation’s youth are unemployed.
-Many workers who have jobs have to work 2 or 3 of them just to scrape by.
-Higher education is almost impossible to obtain without going deeply in debt.
-Corporations are permitted to spend unlimited resources to influence elections while stockpiling a trillion dollars rather than hiring people.

We know the media will either ignore you or frame the issue as to who may be getting pepper sprayed rather than addressing the despair and hardships borne by so many, or accurately conveying what this movement is about. All this goes on while corporate profits continue to soar and millionaires whine about paying a bit more in taxes. And we have not even mentioned the environment.

Many accused Ben & Jerry’s of selling out, and honestly, I don’t think their ice cream tastes as good as it did before they were bought by Unilever. But at the time they were bought, the company promised that “the current social mission of Ben & Jerry’s will be encouraged and well-funded, which will lead to improved performance in this area, and an opportunity has been offered for Ben & Jerry’s to contribute to Unilever’s social practices worldwide.” In supporting OWS, they appear to be following through with this.

It will be interesting to see if they offer further support down the line and in what form (free sundaes anyone?). We hope other companies will follow in support.





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