occupying wall street - will it do any good

[Impenitent]

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/27 ... -c-w-cooke

-Imp

[Ron de Weijze]

Michael Moore always makes me want to become a counter-activist, but because I am against activism, I remain stuck with having to accept his and dislike it/him al the moore.

[Bill Wiltrack]

.


I can tell you for sure, no. He did not switch bottles.


I've been watching this guy's videos for months now.


He's a phenomenon.


.

[tbieter]

... The Wall Street protesters don't have the same work ethic.

And your evidence for this? Sounds like the good-old slander that the right likes to promote when there is an actual show of public anger. Looks to me like they are protesting that their hard-working taxes and savings have been shovelled down the drain by these 'hard-working' bankers and speculators.

Have to agree though that the way for the 'left' to go is back to the idea of co-ops and shareholder ownerships.

The question that I want to raise is why doesn't the left advocate and form "co-ops and shareholder ownerships" like the guys in Duluth did? They acted on their beliefs in equality as a guiding principle. They didn't just spend their time protesting that there weren't any jobs. http://www.amazon.com/dp/1881052095/ref=rdr_ext_tmb

You could even moot that a large part of our problems has been shareholders not involving themselves in the companies in the first place, due I guess to being overcome by greed themselves.

[Arising_uk]

The question that I want to raise is why doesn't the left advocate and form "co-ops and shareholder ownerships" like the guys in Duluth did? They acted on their beliefs in equality as a guiding principle. They didn't just spend their time protesting that there weren't any jobs. http://www.amazon.com/dp/1881052095/ref=rdr_ext_tmb

Not sure that these people are protesting about a lack of work, nor that you have a 'left' in any sense. More at the greed and venality that has led to the financial crisis and the possiblity of a depression.

I also think that without the banks being in a position to help finance the capital start-up even workers co-operatives will be in trouble.

But I do agree with your sentiment and thank you for the link.

[chaz wyman]

.


I can tell you for sure, no. He did not switch bottles.


I've been watching this guy's videos for months now.


He's a phenomenon.


.

A crazy phenomenon!! aka an idiot.

Motor Oil mimics food oils in living tissues and can disrupt DNA transcription, and cellular structure. Drinking a litre would be like smoke 10,000 cigarettes, for increasing his risk of cancer.

http://www.getipm.com/articles/spain-organophates.htm


"Twenty years ago, 1,000 people died in an epidemic that spread across Spain. Poisoned cooking oil was blamed an explanation that suited government and giant chemical corporations. It was, argues Bob Woffinden, who investigated the scandal in the 80s, the prototype scientific fraud that has found echoes around the world."

[Pluto]

Michael Moore always makes me want to become a counter-activist, but because I am against activism, I remain stuck with having to accept his and dislike it/him al the moore.

Ron, Could you elaborate a bit please on both why you don't like him, and why you're against activism? Perhaps I'm missing something here.

[tbieter]

The question that I want to raise is why doesn't the left advocate and form "co-ops and shareholder ownerships" like the guys in Duluth did? They acted on their beliefs in equality as a guiding principle. They didn't just spend their time protesting that there weren't any jobs. http://www.amazon.com/dp/1881052095/ref=rdr_ext_tmb

Not sure that these people are protesting about a lack of work, nor that you have a 'left' in any sense. More at the greed and venality that has led to the financial crisis and the possiblity of a depression.

I also think that without the banks being in a position to help finance the capital start-up even workers co-operatives will be in trouble.

But I do agree with your sentiment and thank you for the link.

Worker coops are consistent with the economic philosophy of distributism:

"Chesterton is often associated with his close friend, the poet and essayist Hilaire Belloc. George Bernard Shaw coined the name Chesterbelloc for their partnership, and this stuck. Though they were very different men, they shared many beliefs; Chesterton eventually joined Belloc in his natal Catholicism, and both voiced criticisms towards capitalism and socialism. They instead espoused a third way:distributism. G. K.'s Weekly, which occupied much of Chesterton's energy in the last 15 years of his life, was the successor to Belloc'sNew Witness, taken over from Cecil Chesterton, Gilbert's brother who died in World War I. (Emphasis added)

Distributism (also known as distributionism, distributivism) is a third-way economic philosophy formulated by such Catholic thinkers as G. K. Chesterton and Hilaire Belloc to apply the principles of Catholic social teaching articulated by the Catholic Church, especially inPope Leo XIII's encyclical Rerum Novarum[1] and more expansively explained by Pope Pius XI's encyclical Quadragesimo Anno[2]

According to distributism, the ownership of the means of production should be spread as widely as possible among the general populace, rather than being centralized under the control of the state (state socialism) or a few large businesses or wealthy private individuals (plutarchic capitalism). A summary of distributism is found in Chesterton's statement: "Too much capitalism does not mean too many capitalists, but too few capitalists."[3]

Essentially, distributism distinguishes itself by its distribution of property (not to be confused with redistribution of wealth). While socialism allows no individuals to own productive property (it all being under state, community, or workers' control, with exceptions such as mutualism), distributism itself seeks to ensure that most people will become owners of productive property. As Belloc stated, the distributive state (that is, the state which has implemented distributism) contains "an agglomeration of families of varying wealth, but by far the greater number of owners of the means of production."[4] This broader distribution does not extend to all property, but only to productive property; that is, that property which produces wealth, namely, the things needed for man to survive. It includes land, tools, etc."[5]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G._K._Chesterton

[Arising_uk]

I thank you very much for this Tom. As I have been looking for philosophical economic and social ammo for the creation of a new political party to address the UK's current issues.

[Pluto]

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/27 ... -c-w-cooke

-Imp

Kick the jew haters in the teeth - they think our government did it too. It's important that we win on public opinion. What an horrendous crackerjack.

[chaz wyman]

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/27 ... -c-w-cooke

-Imp

Kick the jew haters in the teeth - they think our government did it too. It's important that we win on public opinion. What an horrendous crackerjack.

Morons, reactionaries, and elites trying to protect their ill gotten gains will try to traduce the protests as anything negative they can think of.
Anti-jew, anti-capitalist, anti-american, anti- (think of a word).
The simple fact is that short term profit motive has dragged us into the depression, and short term profit motive is dragging us further down. Whilst we have a global capitalist system that rewards the sort of profit-making that is the ruin of the wider economy; that polarises wealth, and destroys the lives of the hard working honest middle and working classes, we need a debate on a global level to regulate and control the forces that encourage destructive short-termism.
We should not let ourselves be distracted by seeing honest frustration as anti-capitalist, or any of the other machiavellian attempts to allow the elites to continue with this madness.

[Impenitent]

http://www.myfoxny.com//dpp/news/occupy ... e-20111005

Gandhi would be proud...

http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/wat ... rails-aga/

food? the government says we have to turn corn into ethanol for a cleaner planet...

rage for affordable broccoli...

-Imp

[Ron de Weijze]

Michael Moore always makes me want to become a counter-activist, but because I am against activism, I remain stuck with having to accept his and dislike it/him al the moore.

Ron, Could you elaborate a bit please on both why you don't like him, and why you're against activism? Perhaps I'm missing something here.

Hi Pluto, I am against activism because it often means people just follow the crowd by behavioral contagion and cannot say why they do it precisely. Which is part of the plan do not discuss dogma, "simply because it is so". The force that is presented is then never one of independent confirmation of opinions and emotions by independent individuals but by mob rule. Michael Moore knows that but has too much fun and financial interest to take that to heart. If he did, he would be an okay guy imo.

[Pluto]

Ron's quote:
Michael Moore always makes me want to become a counter-activist, but because I am against activism, I remain stuck with having to accept his and dislike it/him al the moore.

Pluto wrote:
Ron, Could you elaborate a bit please on both why you don't like him, and why you're against activism? Perhaps I'm missing something here.

Ron wrote:
Hi Pluto, I am against activism because it often means people just follow the crowd by behavioral contagion and cannot say why they do it precisely. Which is part of the plan do not discuss dogma, "simply because it is so". The force that is presented is then never one of independent confirmation of opinions and emotions by independent individuals but by mob rule. Michael Moore knows that but has too much fun and financial interest to take that to heart. If he did, he would be an okay guy imo.

Pluto wrote:
Thanks for that, Ron. I think an important part of your text is the 'it often means' bit. There are, have been and will be situations (and I would say that now is one) where for the sake of the sanity of the individuals involved and the society itself to prevail, one must be activated and protest as a necessary starting point to upturn insanity. After this we, or whoever's involved must be brave and have faith in what follows, for things cannot continue as they are, it would be beyond madness.

I don't think it's for M. Moore to consider the 'what if' - but, as a documentary maker and writer, to consider the 'what is'. Yes, mob rule is a reality, but for a sizeable part of the planet's populace the mob rule that sits from up on high is presently far more worse than can be imagined.

[Ron de Weijze]

Pluto, activism high or low in the elitist hierarchy or power-distance fabric between people is very bad to me, even when only a percentage of the people just go with the flow, because of the submission/dominance and distancing that is taking place at the bottom, by the people for the sake of the group, or at the top, by the group for the sake of the top dog. The power makes people unequal and the distancing sets people apart, as much as mobbing seems to do the opposite, making equal and bringing together. It is a false positive. What happens in groups between people is not the bottom line - what happens in people between groups is, imho.