occupying wall street - will it do any good

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avianaL
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Re: occupying wall street - will it do any good

Post by avianaL » Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:23 am

I don't know if this will do good but some thinks that the libertarians and the left are combining. This trend will continue into the election campaign. Anyway, please allow me to share something I've read that has something to do with this topic. For writers, drawing the line between expert obligation and individual activism has been tough. Lisa Simeone, sponsor of NPR affiliate WAMU’s “Soundprint” and “World of Opera” is now dealing with tough questions regarding her participation as spokesperson for the Occupy Wall Street activity in Washington D.C.. Source for this article: NPR host Lisa Simeone facing questions about political activism. Sounds like a lot of idealists thinking this is it, the revolution.

chaz wyman
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Re: occupying wall street - will it do any good

Post by chaz wyman » Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:21 am

Kayla wrote:As much as i sympathize with the Occupy wall Street people their problem is that they are full of shit

when they go on about how the top 1% does not pay taxes that is simply wrong just as saying that moon is made of green cheese is wrong, it totally destroys whatever credibility they haev and obscures anything valid they have to say

The top 1% pays more than 1% of the taxes. that does not mean that they should not pay more taxes after all if you make a million a year an extra 5% tax will affect you a lot less than if you make ten thousand a year

but if you start with bullshit no one is going to listen

Your view of the economic problem is far more naive than theirs.
Corporations avoid taxes. In the UK the major high street chains register outside the UK and do not pay any corporation tax here.
This has been one reason why the governments have increased sales tax to 20% which further burdens ordinary people, who have to pay tax twice.

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Kayla
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Re: occupying wall street - will it do any good

Post by Kayla » Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:23 pm

chaz wyman wrote:Your view of the economic problem is far more naive than theirs.
ah yes the argument by assertion

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Re: occupying wall street - will it do any good

Post by chaz wyman » Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:47 pm

Kayla wrote:
chaz wyman wrote:Your view of the economic problem is far more naive than theirs.
ah yes the argument by assertion
You so easily caricature a movement that is a broad church with many views. That makes you a part of the problem and not a person looking for a solution.
Do you even think there is a problem with the world's financial system?

Just carry on living in your little world, preaching to your little church in your little community, in your little back-water.
Last edited by chaz wyman on Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bobevenson
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Re: occupying wall street - will it do any good

Post by bobevenson » Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:49 pm

Kayla wrote:
chaz wyman wrote:Your view of the economic problem is far more naive than theirs.
ah yes the argument by assertion
In Evensonomics, the only proper form of taxation is a single tax on property, property being defined as anything with intrinsic market value (God, Evensonomics is amazing, so concise and elegant, like Einstein's E=MC Squared).

chaz wyman
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Re: occupying wall street - will it do any good

Post by chaz wyman » Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:51 pm

bobevenson wrote:
Kayla wrote:
chaz wyman wrote:Your view of the economic problem is far more naive than theirs.
ah yes the argument by assertion
In Evensonomics, the only proper form of taxation is a single tax on property, property being defined as anything with intrinsic market value (God, Evensonomics is amazing, so concise and elegant, like Einstein's E=MC Squared).
I asked God, but he told me you are talking bollocks.

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Re: occupying wall street - will it do any good

Post by bobevenson » Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:16 pm

"I asked God, but he told me you are talking bollocks."

You had no conversation with anybody or anything outside your own demented mind.

chaz wyman
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Re: occupying wall street - will it do any good

Post by chaz wyman » Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:17 pm

bobevenson wrote:"I asked God, but he told me you are talking bollocks."

You had no conversation with anybody or anything outside your own demented mind.
Is that the result of you asking god, or did you google "irony" as I suggested?

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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: occupying wall street - will it do any good

Post by Bill Wiltrack » Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:28 am

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Occupy Wall Street's Most Unlikely Ally: The Pope


by Thomas J. Reese

October 25, 2011

Thomas J. Reese is a senior fellow at the Woodstock Theological Center at Georgetown University, and a former editor of America, the national Catholic weekly magazine.

The Vatican released a document on the world economy on Monday that will cause heartburn in the Tea Party, but will be cheered by the folks occupying Wall Street.


This will surprise most Americans who think the pope is a Republican because he opposes abortion and gay marriage. But when it comes to economic justice, Pope Benedict XVI is to the left of President Obama. Heck, he is even to the left of Nancy Pelosi.

Those who read the pope's 2009 encyclical "Caritas in Veritate (Charity in Truth)" will not be surprised by this new document. In that encyclical, the pope decried "corruption and illegality" among economic and political elites in both rich and poor countries. He told financiers they must rediscover the ethical foundation of their activity and stop abusing savers. He wants a radical rethinking of economics so that it is guided not simply by profits but by "an ethics which is people-centered."

Benedict notes that economic "inequalities are on the increase" across the globe. He does not accept the trickle-down theory, which says that all boats will rise with the economic tide. Benedict condemns the "scandal of glaring inequalities" and sees a role for government in the redistribution of wealth.

Yes, you heard that right. The pope favors the redistribution of wealth. When was the last time you heard a liberal Democrat use those words?


Thomas J. Reese
is author of Inside the Vatican: The Politics and Organization of the Catholic Church.

The pope also disagrees with those who believe that the economy should be free of government regulation. An unregulated economy "shielded from 'influences' of a moral character has led man to abuse the economic process in a thoroughly destructive way," he writes. This has "led to economic, social and political systems that trample upon personal and social freedom, and are therefore unable to deliver the justice that they promise."

Critics have complained that the Occupy Wall Street movement has no program. The people in the movement could do a lot worse than to study what the pope has said about the economy. Sadly, few Catholics know of the church's teaching on economic justice, which has been called the church's best-kept secret.

The pope does not have a magic plan to restore economic prosperity, but he does focus on the values that a political and economic system must support. The priority, he says, must be "access to steady employment for everyone." And that means not just here in the United States, but also in the developing world, where we must rescue "peoples, first and foremost, from hunger, deprivation, endemic diseases and illiteracy."

So if you are having a tea party, don't bother inviting the pope; he won't come. But if you see a white, solar-powered car heading toward Wall Street, it might just be the popemobile.




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Re: occupying wall street - will it do any good

Post by bobevenson » Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:25 pm

Bill Wiltrack wrote:.

Occupy Wall Street's Most Unlikely Ally: The Pope
The Pope is a socialist, right?

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Re: occupying wall street - will it do any good

Post by bobevenson » Wed Oct 26, 2011 3:39 pm

Economist Walter Williams says it all in his column today:

Profits Are for People
By Walter Williams

http://www.JewishWorldReview.com | The Occupy Wall Street demonstrators are demanding "people before profits" — as if profit motivation were the source of mankind's troubles — when it's often the absence of profit motivation that's the true villain.
First, let's get both the definition and magnitude of profits out of the way. Profits represent the residual claim earned by entrepreneurs. They're what are left after other production costs — such as wages, rent and interest — have been paid. Profits are the payment for risk taking, innovation and decision-making. As such, they are a cost of business just as are wages, rent and interest. If those payments are not made, labor, land and capital will not offer their services. Similarly, if profit is not paid, entrepreneurs won't offer theirs. Historically, corporate profits range between 5 and 8 cents of each dollar, and wages range between 50 and 60 cents of each dollar.

Far more important than simple statistics about the magnitude of profits is the role played by profits, namely that of forcing producers to cater to the wants and desires of the common man. When's the last time we've heard widespread complaints about our clothing stores, supermarkets, computer stores or appliance stores? We are far likelier to hear people complaining about services they receive from the post office, motor vehicle and police departments, boards of education and other government agencies. The fundamental difference between the areas of general satisfaction and dissatisfaction is the pursuit of profits is present in one and not the other.

The pursuit of profits forces producers to be attentive to the will of their customers, simply because the customer of, say, a supermarket can fire it on the spot by taking his business elsewhere. If a state motor vehicle department or post office provides unsatisfactory services, it's not so easy for dissatisfied customers to take action against it. If a private business had as many dissatisfied customers as our government schools have, it would have long ago been out of business.

Free market capitalism is unforgiving. Producers please customers, in a cost-minimizing fashion, and make a profit, or they face losses or go bankrupt. It's this market discipline that some businesses seek to avoid. That's why they descend upon Washington calling for crony capitalism — government bailouts, subsidies and special privileges. They wish to reduce the power of consumers and stockholders, who hold little sympathy for blunders and will give them the ax on a moment's notice.

Having Congress on their side means business can be less attentive to the will of consumers. Congress can keep them afloat with bailouts, as it did in the cases of General Motors and Chrysler, with the justification that such companies are "too big to fail." Nonsense! If General Motors and Chrysler had been allowed to go bankrupt, it wouldn't have meant that their productive assets, such as assembly lines and tools, would have gone poof and disappeared into thin air. Bankruptcy would have led to a change in ownership of those assets by someone who might have managed them better. The bailout enabled them to avoid the full consequences of their blunders.

By the way, we often hear people say, with a tone of saintliness, "We're a nonprofit organization," as if that alone translates into decency, objectivity and selflessness. They want us to think they're in it for the good of society and not for those "evil" profits. If we gave it just a little thought and asked what kind of organization throughout mankind's history has accounted for his greatest grief, the answer wouldn't be a free market, private, profit-making enterprise; it would be government, the largest nonprofit organization.
The Occupy Wall Street protesters are following the path predicted by the great philosopher-economist Frederic Bastiat, who said in "The Law" that "instead of rooting out the injustices found in society, they make these injustices general." In other words, the protesters don't want to end crony capitalism, with its handouts and government favoritism; they want to participate in it.

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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: occupying wall street - will it do any good

Post by Bill Wiltrack » Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:00 pm

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AMAZING video just in, Occupy Wall Street Oakland California. Shocking.





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Re: occupying wall street - will it do any good

Post by Bill Wiltrack » Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:03 pm


chaz wyman
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Re: occupying wall street - will it do any good

Post by chaz wyman » Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:09 pm

Bill Wiltrack wrote:.





AMAZING video just in, Occupy Wall Street Oakland California. Shocking.





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I noticed that the news report was from Russia Today. Do we now have to rely on the Russians to get news from the USA concerning people exercising their democratic rights?

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Re: occupying wall street - will it do any good

Post by Bill Wiltrack » Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:01 pm

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Point well taken...



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