Does the Church have the right to discriminate over and abo

[artisticsolution]

Lovin' your response Chaz.

I got another one.

As long as the Church doesn't pay taxes...it can't discriminate. If it wants to discriminate...then tax the hell out of it.

Many charities also do not have to pay taxes. Think AS.

What does that have to do with a church discriminating?

[spike]

The Church no longer stones or burns gays at the stake as it once may have done. That is because it bows to human law — the State, rather than God's law. So State law has supremacy over the wishes of the Church in denying gays rights.

God's law, which the Church was thoroughly bound by, does not condone homosexuality. But that is no longer the case because State law rules. It is ironic, though, that many gays found sanctuary in the Church as priests.

[chaz wyman]

The Church no longer stones or burns gays at the stake as it once may have done. That is because it bows to human law — the State, rather than God's law. So State law has supremacy over the wishes of the Church in denying gays rights.

God's law, which the Church was thoroughly bound by, does not condone homosexuality. But that is no longer the case because State law rules. It is ironic, though, that many gays found sanctuary in the Church as priests.

This is true to a point. The church can still, and still does, discriminate against gay marriage, and against gays becoming priests.

[Izzywizzy]

This is true to a point. The church can still, and still does, discriminate against gay marriage, and against gays becoming priests.

Why shouldn`t it? after all its about the marriage of heterosexuals. If I was gay what would I be doing in an establishment that didn`t believe in my way of life? You seem to think the church ought to change its doctrines to suit the gay way of life, and thats irrational. The reality is many gays do become priests as a way to bring down the establishment they dislike. You only have to pick up a newspaper these days to read not only gays but also paedophiles join the priesthood to attack choirboys. In fact one of my Gay friends dates an Anglican priest so the Anglican church seem to allow gay priests or maybe they don`t know they have a gay priest hehe its all to ridiculous.

In answer to the question does the church have the right to discriminate, seems obvious that the church has a right to stick to its doctrines.

[spike]

This is true to a point. The church can still, and still does, discriminate against gay marriage, and against gays becoming priests.

Individuals also discriminate against homosexuality because of their personal beliefs. Nevertheless, they are constrained like the Church by the State how far they can go with their discrimination.

[artisticsolution]

In answer to the question does the church have the right to discriminate, seems obvious that the church has a right to stick to its doctrines.

Sticking to your doctrines is not what this is about. The church preaches love thy neighbor. God preaches love the sinner not the sin. This means that the Church must not discriminate against the person...but the sin. Which means...they have the right to say there will be no sinning taking place in the church i.e. no orges, no homosexual or heterosexual sex acts, no lying , no murder, no adultery within the walls of God's holy temple. What they can't say is the people who have committed these sins are excluded from the church. If that were the case they would have to exclude everyone who sinned and that would leave them with no one to attend.

'Love the sinner not the sin' does not mean keep the sinner away from his salvation. Any church who keeps a man away from God's house does not follow God's word. The church that does not follow God's word does the devils work by driving people away from God.

Driving people away from God is what the devil's whole M.O. is about. Or so the Church told me.

[Izzywizzy]

A.S wrote

Sticking to your doctrines is not what this is about.

Obviously not, and to correct your error in thinking, I was talking about the church doctrines and not my own , regarding doctrine I was making an important distinction..Discrimination is too strong word in this post and misleading. Its a red herring, as the church doesn`t discriminate it does.. as you loquaciously rambled encoruage forgiving and encourage those it deems its lost sheep so just because it won`t agree to bless Gay unions doesn`t mean it discriminates. That is the doctrine.

[artisticsolution]

I meant "your" in general. I should have said "Sticking to their doctrines is not what this is about." Or "Sticking to doctrines is not what this is about."

Sorry

[Greatest I am]

This is true to a point. The church can still, and still does, discriminate against gay marriage, and against gays becoming priests.

Why shouldn`t it? after all its about the marriage of heterosexuals. If I was gay what would I be doing in an establishment that didn`t believe in my way of life? You seem to think the church ought to change its doctrines to suit the gay way of life, and thats irrational. The reality is many gays do become priests as a way to bring down the establishment they dislike. You only have to pick up a newspaper these days to read not only gays but also paedophiles join the priesthood to attack choirboys. In fact one of my Gay friends dates an Anglican priest so the Anglican church seem to allow gay priests or maybe they don`t know they have a gay priest hehe its all to ridiculous.

In answer to the question does the church have the right to discriminate, seems obvious that the church has a right to stick to its doctrines.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlyh2XbbtsM

Then, like the way they protect their pedophiles, I would say they are helping promote violence and murder against an innocent group.

Regards
DL

[Izzywizzy]

I meant "your" in general. I should have said "Sticking to their doctrines is not what this is about." Or "Sticking to doctrines is not what this is about."

Sorry

no problembo I am pleased we are now one the same page.

Driving people away from God is what the devil's whole M.O. is about. Or so the Church told me.

The church does a great job of driving people away themselves. they employ and then protect the dodgy padre` we read about
Didn`t you know the devil wears Prada?

[Greatest I am]

In answer to the question does the church have the right to discriminate, seems obvious that the church has a right to stick to its doctrines.

Sticking to your doctrines is not what this is about. The church preaches love thy neighbor. God preaches love the sinner not the sin. This means that the Church must not discriminate against the person...but the sin. Which means...they have the right to say there will be no sinning taking place in the church i.e. no orges, no homosexual or heterosexual sex acts, no lying , no murder, no adultery within the walls of God's holy temple. What they can't say is the people who have committed these sins are excluded from the church. If that were the case they would have to exclude everyone who sinned and that would leave them with no one to attend.

'Love the sinner not the sin' does not mean keep the sinner away from his salvation. Any church who keeps a man away from God's house does not follow God's word. The church that does not follow God's word does the devils work by driving people away from God.

Driving people away from God is what the devil's whole M.O. is about. Or so the Church told me.

Sounds like you expect the Church to walk it’s talk.
Good luck with finding one that does.

Regards
DL

[artisticsolution]

A.S wrote

Sticking to your doctrines is not what this is about.

Obviously not, and to correct your error in thinking, I was talking about the church doctrines and not my own , regarding doctrine I was making an important distinction..Discrimination is too strong word in this post and misleading. Its a red herring, as the church doesn`t discriminate it does.. as you loquaciously rambled encoruage forgiving and encourage those it deems its lost sheep so just because it won`t agree to bless Gay unions doesn`t mean it discriminates. That is the doctrine.

I hear what you are saying about gay unions, but to me I don't see a problem with 'blessing" them...here's why:

There is a judgment that has to be made on whether or not something is a 'sin'. If we cannot "know" for sure if this sin has happened or not the way we think it has, this makes us a 'sinner' in jumping to conclusions. If we are pure of heart we can not know 'sin'. So we could not ask the question, "If I bless this union between man and man or woman and women, then there will be sinful sex." Since we cannot know "sinful" sex without having "sinful" thoughts...then we can't be without sin enough to judge. Conversely, if we don't know "sin" to begin with, We cannot judge. It's simply not possible to judge something we know nothing about. Therefore it is only our sinful nature of thinking the worst about people that causes us to discriminate. We cannot be "good" and discriminate at the same time. As Kierkegaard puts it in "Purity of heart if to will one thing" it would make us "double-minded" and therefore not "good" which to him = truth. (at least that is how my little mind interprets it...I am still trying to understand him....only on page 68...lol)

[artisticsolution]

Sounds like you expect the Church to walk it’s talk.
Good luck with finding one that does.

Regards
DL

Hi Greatest,

I don't know if I am looking toward "man" in order to find "truth" or God. I see religion and the Church to be flawed because it is a man made concept. This is different from how I view "God" (If there is a God) I have a sense of God...a sense of something pure, honest, good....but no way of knowing if that is reality or my imagination playing trick on me...as I have no actual proof of what I believe (or desire?)

Anyway....just thinking aloud. If I can't honestly state there is a God...but I want (desire) there to be the one I imagine (cause the others are bat shit crazy). Still, I can't claim to be anything but agnostic and still be honest with myself and my God...if he exists. More information than you needed to know? LOL

[spike]

Since we are talking about GOD, I think He created homosexuality deliberately as a wedge against and status quo and piety. He created homosexuality as a third rail to agitate the powers that be and bring more robustness to life.

Marxists in the Frankfurt School worried about who would replace the proletariat as agents of reform when they became satisfied and complacent. The answer given was that "a coalition of students, blacks, feminists, homosexuals and other socially marginal elements" would. And homosexuals, like the others mentioned, have played their part in bringing reform and robustness to society and Civilization.

[Izzywizzy]

AS

I hear what you are saying about gay unions, but to me I don't see a problem with 'blessing" them...here's why:

Well here`s the difference I am addressing the questioning of the Church and not whether gay union has a right to be accepted. It is already accepted as a Civil legal Union in europe. Gays can marry and get blessed wherever they want to, but if they go to a mainstream church then the church has their own doctrines and will abide by them. Which is why if anyone is discriminating its the militant wing of the gay right discriminating against the church to try and enforce and ring their changes on and in the church.