Greed

How should society be organised, if at all?

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DavidJohnGriffin
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Greed

Post by DavidJohnGriffin »

I have learned from the media over many years that it seems a lot of wealthy people - I'm talking about some of the millionaires/billionaires who are in positions of power (especially in the UK government) seem to be obsessed with their own wealth creation over the needs of the populace they are serving.

Is it greed? What is your definition of greed? Can greed be considered a mental anomaly/illness?
promethean75
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Re: Greed

Post by promethean75 »

Greed is a concept poor people made up.
Iwannaplato
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Re: Greed

Post by Iwannaplato »

promethean75 wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 1:39 pm Greed is a concept poor people made up.
I doubt it. It wouldn't have gotten so much press. At the very least learned people got it into the Bible, so their families probably had some money or sheep or something. And I would be that there are words for greed in many tribal languages. And the concept of poverty doesn't fit tribal hardship.

It is unlikely that rich people came up with the concept since it's pejorative. They would use other nice sounding words: like dominant, powerful, deserving, entitled (once was used more positively), and so on. Or perhaps just 'great', like a great lord, warrior, leader.
promethean75
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Re: Greed

Post by promethean75 »

also, the contempt that arises when we feel someone is being greedy has to be made possible and proportionate to what we feel they deserve. and this can get incredibly complicated.

but what we do always note is that it isn't just having 'too much' - how much is too much, etc. - that is the concern, but that also that extra whatever-it-is is had, possessed, at someone else's expense. and therein lies the moral dimension of the concept. 

and out of this a system evolves in which human beings place constraints on what kind of property can be obtained, and how, so that if it is obtained, it's justified.

take a billionaire for instance. there is no rule anywhere in the universe that says he shouldn't have that wealth and property. what we take issue with is how he obtained that property. in a capitalist system he's totally legit and playing by the rules, so why call him greedy?

what people really have a problem with is the exchange value of their labor, i.e. they receive less than the value of their labor (which is the price of the commodity/service) in their wage/salary... and so they call the guy on the signing end of the check 'greedy'.

it's misplaced aggression. that guy's not the problem. the rules are the problem. i mean I'm sure he's an asshole but he's still not the problem. u gotta change the rules man.
mickthinks
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Re: Greed

Post by mickthinks »

Greed arises in situations where healthy and loving human beings would share a beneficial but scarce resource with one another. Some consume more of the resource than others for sure, and though that difference in consumption might sometimes be hard to justify, that isn't necessarily greed.

It's greed when the marginal benefit to the over-user of the extra resource being appropriated is so much smaller than the benefit it would bestow on the neediest of those who are thus denied, as to be trivial in comparison. So for example, a man with a plate of steak and chips who begrudges a fellow diner a few chips for his empty plate.

Or a billionaire business owner who pays his staff so little they need to work extra shifts or take a second job just to pay their rent and be able to feed their children.

It's an easy concept to get hold and make use of, I think, for anyone who can see the point of sharing with their fellows. That is, anyone who isn't a sociopath.
Iwannaplato
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Re: Greed

Post by Iwannaplato »

promethean75 wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 2:44 pm and out of this a system evolves in which human beings place constraints on what kind of property can be obtained, and how, so that if it is obtained, it's justified.
You mean like when rich people - sometimes royals via proxies - plant a flag in land and lay claim to areas where people live. Then tell them what they cannot do there? No, you meant people who have less doing this. But it's missing that the people with more do this. And tend to start doing this. No you cannot hunt on these millions of acres that used to be commons. I have declared them mine.

Latin America and, well banana companies, for a starter. No, they never go in to traditional lands and tell people that they have too much and take it from them.
take a billionaire for instance. there is no rule anywhere in the universe that says he shouldn't have that wealth and property. what we take issue with is how he obtained that property. in a capitalist system he's totally legit and playing by the rules, so why call him greedy?
If he's totally legit. Though, how much did he have to do with the rules and how they were applied?
what people really have a problem with is the exchange value of their labor, i.e. they receive less than the value of their labor (which is the price of the commodity/service) in their wage/salary... and so they call the guy on the signing end of the check 'greedy'.
They don't have to and sometimes they don't, but nothing here says that we can categorically deny there can be greed.
it's misplaced aggression. that guy's not the problem. the rules are the problem. i mean I'm sure he's an asshole but he's still not the problem. u gotta change the rules man.
This is true, but the rules and applications may well have been created by the greedy. But, yes, calling people greedy and $4.15 gets you a latte at Starbucks. It's just that effective adn valuable.
Impenitent
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Re: Greed

Post by Impenitent »

greed isn't the problem

envy is

-Imp
Iwannaplato
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Re: Greed

Post by Iwannaplato »

Impenitent wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 12:26 am greed isn't the problem

envy is

-Imp
Yes, some people envy people who have less and have to take it (also).
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