woke

How should society be organised, if at all?

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Alexis Jacobi
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Re: woke

Post by Alexis Jacobi »

These are notes put down to isolate certain key ideas from Weaver's essays. Such as for example 'metaphysical dream of the world'.

These are the sorts of idea that have most influenced my own thinking.
New conservatism--to conserve the great structural reality which has been given us and which is on the whole beneficent. (p.56)

Weaver's perspective on rhetoric--human being is composed of body, mind and soul. (p.59)

Four faculties of the mind--aesthetic, ethical, religious and cognitive. (p.59)

Soul--"an integrative power binding the individual into an intellectual, emotional, and spiritual unity which is the highest self." (p.60)

Three levels of knowledge--ideas, beliefs, metaphysical dream. (p.60)

Metaphysical dream--"intuitive feeling about the immanent nature of reality. (p.61)

Tertium quid--an ideal ideal. (p.61)

Truth--degree to which things and ideas in material world conform to their ideals and essences. (p.61)

Culture--feelings which determine a common attitude toward large phases of experience. (p.61)

Tyrannizing image--center of culture which represents the cultural ideal or vision of excellence for which a society strives and sees as perfection. (p.62)

Language--Process through which ultimate truth of metaphysical dream is conveyed to individuals of a culture. (p.63)

Dialectic--method of investigation whose object is the establishment of truth about doubtful propositions. (p.63)

Rhetoric--truth plus artful presentation. (p.63)

Genus and definition--relies on the presupposition that there exists classes which are determinate and therefore predictable; most ethical. (p.67)

Similitude--involves the interpretation of a subject in relationships of similarity and dissimilarity; second most ethical. (p.68)

Cause and effect--consequence; least ethical. (p.68)

Authority and testimony--external mode of interpreting reality; statements made by observers. Experts take the place of the direct interpretation of evidence and individuals we respect vouch for the truth. (p.69)

Rhetorical/historical--composite argument that requires a definition of genus or principle and a reference to historical circumstances. (p.70)

Simple sentence--tends to emphasize the discreetness of phenomenon within the structural unity; no major competing elements. (p.71)

Complex sentence--branching sentence with one or more dependent clause and one independent clause. (p.71)

Compound sentence--two or more simple sentences joined in some way. (p.71)

Ultimate terms--terms to which the highest respect is paid in a culture to which the populace appears to attribute the greatest sanction. -god--all other expressions are subordinate -devil--terms of repulsion -charismatic--operate independently of referential connections (p.72)
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Alexis Jacobi
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Re: woke

Post by Alexis Jacobi »

Gary Childress wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 4:05 pm I just want to be happy in a way that doesn't harm anyone else. I can only imagine that is what God created me for since that seems to be the main impulse that comes to my mind. If he created me for something else, then he did a bad job at programming.
Well, consider *soma*:
"All the advantages of Christianity and alcohol; none of their defects."
"..there is always soma, delicious soma, half a gramme for a half-holiday, a gramme for a week-end, two grammes for a trip to the gorgeous East, three for a dark eternity on the moon..."
"You do look glum! What you need is a gramme of soma!"
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Immanuel Can
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Re: woke

Post by Immanuel Can »

Gary Childress wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 4:02 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 2:59 pm When one attempts to be dogmatic about what another believes... :roll:
Well, we all know that every socialist believes in killing and enslaving others, whether they want to admit it or not.
It's what they do. It's what they have done in 100% of the cases, as soon as they've been able to seize control of a country. So we know that's true.
Socialist countries don't seem to get involved in as many invasions and foreign wars in order to preserve resource sources.
Like the USSR "didn't," and China "doesn't" now? :shock:
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Immanuel Can
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Re: woke

Post by Immanuel Can »

Gary Childress wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 4:05 pm I just want to be happy in a way that doesn't harm anyone else.
That's it? The whole purpose of your existence is "to be happy" and "not harm anyone?" :shock:

We could get that much if there had never been a Gary at all. At least there would have been no unhappiness, and he certainly couldn't have harmed anybody, then. But that sort of leaves the question, why make a Gary?
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Immanuel Can
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Re: woke

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Alexis Jacobi wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 4:10 pm Note that I do not write for you, and since it is not possible to converse with you, I find it best to write in relation to you.
..he said, while writing to me. :lol:
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Alexis Jacobi
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Re: woke

Post by Alexis Jacobi »

Immanuel Can wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 4:25 pm
Alexis Jacobi wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 4:10 pm Note that I do not write for you, and since it is not possible to converse with you, I find it best to write in relation to you.
..he said, while writing to me. :lol:
You are a clever one! I write on a forum comprised of an assortment of persons. My glorious audience! Worm-like all the way up to angel-like!

BTW here is the best version of Gotta Serve Somebody.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: woke

Post by Immanuel Can »

Alexis Jacobi wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 4:44 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 4:25 pm
Alexis Jacobi wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 4:10 pm Note that I do not write for you, and since it is not possible to converse with you, I find it best to write in relation to you.
..he said, while writing to me. :lol:
You are a clever one!
I merely note the obvious.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: woke

Post by Immanuel Can »

Wokist Neologism #153.

Mis-/Dis-information: means, "information we don't want you to have."

It could be true information, or it could be false information. To the Woke, that's not relevant. If you're not supposed to know the information, however, it becomes "misinformation."

They avoid terms like "lies" and "falsehoods," because those can be checked objectively. So they say, "We're not censoring; we're fighting disinformation on the internet," or "We have to do something about all the misinformation about COVID."

What they really mean is that the free flow of debate ( including both true and false information, as it always does) is proving unhelpful to the expeditious advancing of their particular cause, whether warranted by the data or not. In view of that agenda, there are things you are not supposed to know, and it's unhelpful to them and their credibility if you know them.

So the terms "mis- and dis-information" define their opposition as misled (prior to all investigation) and themselves as the possessors of the information known-to-be-right already...especially in cases where their agenda is highly dubious and susceptible to falling apart if compared to the available facts.
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Alexis Jacobi
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Re: woke

Post by Alexis Jacobi »

Immanuel Can wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 5:00 pm I merely note the obvious.
The obvious, in a manner of speaking, also notes you.
Gary Childress
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Re: woke

Post by Gary Childress »

Immanuel Can wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 4:24 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 4:05 pm I just want to be happy in a way that doesn't harm anyone else.
That's it? The whole purpose of your existence is "to be happy" and "not harm anyone?" :shock:

We could get that much if there had never been a Gary at all. At least there would have been no unhappiness, and he certainly couldn't have harmed anybody, then. But that sort of leaves the question, why make a Gary?
Sorry if I don't serve a useful function to others. I know some people think the purpose of life is to serve others or fulfill some noble purpose. I'm here to enjoy what I can and not hurt anyone else in the process. It doesn't mean I don't give to others out of compassion, indeed, I do unto others as I would like others to do unto me if I were in their shoes and think everyone should have opportunity to enjoy life if that's what they find fulfilling.

I don't know why God made me but apparently, he DID make me and here I am and I do things the way I see them best done. If you have a problem with that, take it up with God, since he allegedly made me.
Gary Childress
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Re: woke

Post by Gary Childress »

Immanuel Can wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 4:21 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 4:02 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 2:59 pm When one attempts to be dogmatic about what another believes... :roll:
Well, we all know that every socialist believes in killing and enslaving others, whether they want to admit it or not.
It's what they do. It's what they have done in 100% of the cases, as soon as they've been able to seize control of a country. So we know that's true.
Socialist countries don't seem to get involved in as many invasions and foreign wars in order to preserve resource sources.
Like the USSR "didn't," and China "doesn't" now? :shock:
How many military ventures did the USSR's military make after Stalin's tyranny ended? Compare that to the number of times the US has deployed forces outside its border during that period. How about China? How many foreign incursions has China's military made? I've seen it argued pretty convincingly that the US has toppled regimes and supported colonialism in its waning years because that's how profits are easiest made. Virtual slave labor in the third world is what keeps Capitalism appearing to provide plenty. And if it can't be obtained by outsourcing jobs to dictatorships and oppressive regimes willing to treat their people like crap, then the captains of industry and profit will be happy to make wage slaves of their own populations. I mean, it's the truth. Look at the world around us, and read the headlines, I just don't see how it can be denied.
commonsense
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Re: woke

Post by commonsense »

Immanuel Can wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 4:24 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 4:05 pm I just want to be happy in a way that doesn't harm anyone else.
That's it? The whole purpose of your existence is "to be happy" and "not harm anyone?" :shock:

We could get that much if there had never been a Gary at all. At least there would have been no unhappiness, and he certainly couldn't have harmed anybody, then. But that sort of leaves the question, why make a Gary?
Why? Probably not for anyone’s benefit other than Gary himself.
commonsense
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Re: woke

Post by commonsense »

Immanuel Can wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 4:04 am
commonsense wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 12:45 am And the easiest scenario in which God wants Gary to be killed is the scenario in which God’s motives are completely unknowable.
Except that's not the world I live in. In the world in which I live, God has spoken and has made a whole bunch of things about Himself and His wishes known, such as "Thou shalt not murder," for a start. So I think Gary's talking about something that for me, can't happen.
You’ve shown me many things about God and the reality of the world he created. You’ve almost converted me to your point of view. But I want to hear whether your comments are based on hard facts or deep beliefs or both. How do you know what you know and why do you believe what you believe?
commonsense
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Re: woke

Post by commonsense »

Alexis Jacobi wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 2:41 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 2:06 pm Heck, maybe I'm an Edomite. I don't know all of whom my ancestors slept with.
Who gets to define “Edom”? For supersessionists :
Supersessionism, also called replacement theology or fulfillment theology, is a Christian theology which describes the theological conviction that the Christian Church has superseded the Jews and the nation of Israel, assuming their role as God's covenanted people, thus asserting that the New Covenant through Jesus Christ has superseded or replaced the Mosaic covenant exclusive to Jews. Supersessionist theology also holds that the universal Christian Church has succeeded ancient Israel as God's true Israel and that Christians have succeeded the ancient Israelites as the people of God.
Few who write on this forum are grasping the complex, but consequential inner dimensions of this belief- and narrative-complex as it is playing out today.

Who gets to be Jacob? And then who is Esau? These can be seen in racialist terms (Judaism invented real racism) but it is moreover an issue of metaphysical persuasion. Something ‘spiritual’ — mental, intellectual, ideational — but transcending specificity.

Immanuel believes himself to be a descendent of Jacob. That is why he and he alone has ‘the righteous voice’ in these discussions. So many flies and stained cockroaches come after him but like David he holds his ground! Surely this man is blessed!

My view? These are mind-games of an amazingly bizarre order. Once that is seen one has, by definition, ascended from the bottom of the Cave of Thralldom to the next level up.

Really you assholes should sign up for my ten week email course! It’s only $9.99 a week!

I guarantee relative normalcy to those who successfully complete the course!
Pardon my ad hom as I ask you if your course is characterized by as many ad homs as you inject in your posts in this discussion and elsewhere in this forum?
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Harbal
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Re: woke

Post by Harbal »

Immanuel Can wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 4:24 pm
That's it? The whole purpose of your existence is "to be happy" and "not harm anyone?" :shock:
I applaude him for that, and share his sentiments, despite your obvious disdain for it. If being a Christian compels you to look down on it, it is all the more reason not to be one.
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