Trump Derangement Syndrome

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tillingborn
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Re: Trump Derangement Syndrome

Post by tillingborn »

Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 9:22 pmI don't "find" anybody "guilty" or "innocent."
Yes you do:
Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 4:24 amWhen you pillory one man for making frat-boy talk, and say nothing about his competitor who's an actual rapist?
Again, the question is simple:
tillingborn wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 4:15 pmBoth Trump and Biden have been accused of sexual assault. Neither have been convicted. On what grounds do you find one guilty and the other innocent?
Your answer is:
Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 9:22 pmI decide people trustworthy or untrustworthy, to my own standards of both.
We all do, but your standards go beyond "trustworthy or untrustworthy" when you call someone that you do not know is an actual rapist "an actual rapist".
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Trump Derangement Syndrome

Post by Immanuel Can »

tillingborn wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 10:42 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 9:22 pmI don't "find" anybody "guilty" or "innocent."
Yes you do.
No, I don't. My say-so will not get Clinton convicted, even for what he's admitted. I can't impeach Biden, either. And nobody gets sued or goes to jail on my say-so.

But I have a view of a public figure. For Clinton, I don't even have to speculate. For Biden, I can read the transcript of the laptop, and form a belief about his guilt or innocence.

In other words, I can do exactly what any voter does: decided on the character of the person I'm potentially being asked to vote for. It's called "democracy." And within that, I can even have an opinion about whether or not Biden's likely to have been guilty of sexual assault or influence-peddling. And I can support or reject a candidate accordingly.

But why do you prefer Clinton and Biden to Trump? Why won't you answer the question I've asked multiple times now?
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FlashDangerpants
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Re: Trump Derangement Syndrome

Post by FlashDangerpants »

So get me up to speed, how does Mannie know he can use the words "actual rapist" about Biden?

It doesn't seem to fit with the epistemological standard he sets for accusations against Trump.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Trump Derangement Syndrome

Post by Immanuel Can »

FlashDangerpants wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 12:00 am So get me up to speed, how does Mannie know he can use the words "actual rapist" about Biden.
Aren't you going to try to defend Clinton? :wink:
mickthinks
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Re: Trump Derangement Syndrome

Post by mickthinks »

You've evaded the quesstion, Manny.

tillingborn, flash, and I agree with you that Biden has been accused of sexual assault. But unlike us, you have actually called Biden an actual rapist.

Why did you call Biden an actual rapist?

Were you suffering an attack of derangement?
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FlashDangerpants
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Re: Trump Derangement Syndrome

Post by FlashDangerpants »

he might not want to answer the question?
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Trump Derangement Syndrome

Post by Immanuel Can »

mickthinks wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 7:55 am You've evaded the quesstion, Manny.

tillingborn, flash, and I agree with you that Biden has been accused of sexual assault. But unlike us, you have actually called Biden an actual rapist.
And I'm free to do so. There's a credible accusation from Tara Reade, and I think her account is probably truthful. I can't see why she would want to make up that horrendous little story, or live through the nightmare of publicly humiliating herself by telling it. And I, when I form my opinion of her character, I trust her more than I trust Biden.

Can I do that? Yup. I can do that. Because my accepting of her testimony does not even potentially put an "innocent" man in jail; all it does is mean that if Biden wants the vote of reasonable, moral people, he can't have it.

That's the public's judgment to make, with our without the say-so of the judiciary. And clearly, his record so far and his known activities, given the laptop, make it utterly irrational for any person to prefer him to any other. He's the worst president in American history -- which is quite an achievement, after Carter. Even Clinton was at least marginally competent as President; Biden cannot even claim that much.

So can I believe him to have done what Tara Reade accuses him of having done? Yes, yes I can. It fits the character he is revealed to have, through all these other things. Do I have to wait for judicial fiat to decide that? Nope. I'm free, as is everybody else, to have an opinion about that.

As a member of the public, or as a voter, every person has the right -- and the responsibility -- to form the most accurate opinion they can of the character of every candiate, and direct their voting accordingly.

It's called "democracy." If you don't believe that voters can't form reasonable views of candidate's characters based on what they can learn from watching them and listening to them, then you don't believe in it. I do.

Now it's your turn: why is Trump the worst president, in your view?
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Trump Derangement Syndrome

Post by Immanuel Can »

FlashDangerpants wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 5:01 pm he might not want to answer the question?
Just did. :wink:
Iwannaplato
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Re: Trump Derangement Syndrome

Post by Iwannaplato »

They're both shit.
commonsense
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Re: Trump Derangement Syndrome

Post by commonsense »

Iwannaplato wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 5:27 pm They're both shit.
Yes, but IC clearly believes that Biden is shittier than Trump, and he can’t understand why anyone—including everyone now on this thread except him—would think otherwise.

He believes Tara speaks the truth, based on his ability to just know that someone is not lying. IC also thinks that Tara has no reason to lie.

I have no fail proof internal lie detecting ability, but I can compare reasons to tell the truth with reasons to lie.

Motivation for Tara to tell the truth includes a desire to be seen as someone who is very brave to come forward with the lurid details. Motivation to lie encompasses fame and money.

If I had to form an opinion on Tara’s veracity, I would base it on the idea that the lure of fame and money is stronger than the inclination to view oneself as brave.

But IC is right: everyone has a right to have an opinion, whether based on reason or not. Even so, he repeatedly asks the same thing: why do you hate Trump and why would you rather vote for Biden?

He’s been given several answers—which more than not refute his premise of hatred for Trump—but he doesn’t accept these as answers to his question. Perhaps his question is a guise for something else.

I think his question may well be: given that Biden is shittier than Trump, and given that you must not hate the less shitty of the two, and given that you hate Trump, and given that you must accept all of the foregoing a priori, why do you confuse me?
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Sculptor
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Re: Trump Derangement Syndrome

Post by Sculptor »

commonsense wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 9:17 pm
Iwannaplato wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 5:27 pm They're both shit.
Yes, but IC clearly believes that Biden is shittier than Trump, and he can’t understand why anyone—including everyone now on this thread except him—would think otherwise.

He believes Tara speaks the truth, based on his ability to just know that someone is not lying. IC also thinks that Tara has no reason to lie.

I have no fail proof internal lie detecting ability, but I can compare reasons to tell the truth with reasons to lie.

Motivation for Tara to tell the truth includes a desire to be seen as someone who is very brave to come forward with the lurid details. Motivation to lie encompasses fame and money.

If I had to form an opinion on Tara’s veracity, I would base it on the idea that the lure of fame and money is stronger than the inclination to view oneself as brave.

But IC is right: everyone has a right to have an opinion, whether based on reason or not. Even so, he repeatedly asks the same thing: why do you hate Trump and why would you rather vote for Biden?
IC has a right to his opinion, but he does not have a right to his own facts.
Iwannaplato
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Re: Trump Derangement Syndrome

Post by Iwannaplato »

commonsense wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 9:17 pm Yes, but IC clearly believes that Biden is shittier than Trump, and he can’t understand why anyone—including everyone now on this thread except him—would think otherwise.
I can't say what the other think about the two guys, but out in the world many think that only one is shit, and can't imagine, really how others would think otherwise.
He believes Tara speaks the truth, based on his ability to just know that someone is not lying. IC also thinks that Tara has no reason to lie.

I have no fail proof internal lie detecting ability, but I can compare reasons to tell the truth with reasons to lie.
Sure, and perhaps he is biased in his reading of the various women complainers. I would guess that both men are interpersonally toxic and not in small ways. That's a belief I have. I can't demonstrate it to others to be the case, but it affects how I think of them, and here, write about them.
But IC is right: everyone has a right to have an opinion, whether based on reason or not. Even so, he repeatedly asks the same thing: why do you hate Trump and why would you rather vote for Biden?

He’s been given several answers—which more than not refute his premise of hatred for Trump—but he doesn’t accept these as answers to his question. Perhaps his question is a guise for something else.

I think his question may well be: given that Biden is shittier than Trump, and given that you must not hate the less shitty of the two, and given that you hate Trump, and given that you must accept all of the foregoing a priori, why do you confuse me?
Quite possible. But it seems like for enough people to make it THE game, we have to turn a blind eye to 'our' candidate/president because the other side is evil. So it gets put in discussions much like this one where chooseing between and choosing between two candidates is seen as the discussion.

My reaction today was and still is, they are both shit.
Last edited by Iwannaplato on Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Trump Derangement Syndrome

Post by Immanuel Can »

Sculptor wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 9:37 pm
commonsense wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 9:17 pm
Iwannaplato wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 5:27 pm They're both shit.
Yes, but IC clearly believes that Biden is shittier than Trump, and he can’t understand why anyone—including everyone now on this thread except him—would think otherwise.
I don't argue whether Trump is this or that. I'm not one of his groupies. If they want to say, "He's as bad as Biden," I have nothing much to say about that. Clinton's clearly worse. Biden's at least as bad, and plausibly much worse, though in somewhat different ways. And since the Left claims it's so high minded about what it alleges about Trump, I can't explain why they aren't similarly high minded about Biden or Clinton.

I could imagine that is was simple partisanship: they just don't like Republicans. Except, that explanation doesn't work, either. Because they aren't equally wound up about Bush or Reagan, or even about other Repubs in general. But for some reason, Trump seems to get under their skin much more than any before him -- and while they claim their objections to him are that he's immoral in some way, they have no similar concerns about Biden or Clinton. So that's not it...they're obviously neither high minded nor concerned about morality, nor even being merely partisan.

So I'm looking for the real answer. The only problem seems to be that the Dems are so deep in whatever dark space they're in, they're not even able to explain themselves.
Motivation for Tara to tell the truth includes a desire to be seen as someone who is very brave to come forward with the lurid details.
Yes, women just love to tell people they were cornered and digitally raped by old men. It really raises their "street cred."

Are you nuts?
Motivation to lie encompasses fame and money.
So now you want us to say that Tara Reade did it to get rich and famous? How do you assess that is working out?
But IC is right: everyone has a right to have an opinion, whether based on reason or not. Even so, he repeatedly asks the same thing: why do you hate Trump and why would you rather vote for Biden?
So, where's my answer?
promethean75
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Re: Trump Derangement Syndrome

Post by promethean75 »

you all act as if such a political circus as ours is normal and necessary, and you can't imagine another alternative... something not structured as a traditional dual party political system composed of wealthy liberal and conservative opportunistic politicians.

but politics can't be any more honest or transparent because this nonsense is intrinsic to the way this particular system is structured. there will always be scandal, foul play, corruption and paranoia because the overprivileged class involved in politics both at a federal and state level are able to get into such trouble, to find such opportunity...

"the crimes committed by the American bourgeois politicans Nixon, Clinton, Biden and Trumpf are the product of social excess" - Lenin
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Trump Derangement Syndrome

Post by Immanuel Can »

promethean75 wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:48 am ...the way this particular system is structured. there will always be scandal, foul play, corruption and paranoia ...
Yah. None of that happened in Soviet Russia. Good time to (imaginatively) quote Lenin. He wasn't a homicidal maniac at all. :roll:

Do you have an answer as to why the Left hates Trump so exclusively? No? Didn't think so.
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