Some of us atavists still do.Belinda wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 4:12 pmAny of the above. People used to believe in the vital spark or life force.henry quirk wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 1:21 pmYes. The mind, spirit, soul (pick your placeholder).What Henry and IC have in common is they both believe that there is an actual animating force which is a thing.
fascism in America?
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Re: fascism in America?
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Re: fascism in America?
Note to others:henry quirk wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 1:19 pmThat's no answer. And: you've thumped no one here (and have been thumped repeatedly).Well, for much the same reason that objectivists of your ilk have attempted to do so down through the years: to thump me as effortlessly as I thump them.
Politics aside, you decide.
Look, there are those among us who fiercely insist on correct answers when the questions revolve around things like God and fascism. Ever and always their own.
And even though henry will grudgingly admit that in the past he has been wrong about his own answers to the big questions like this, don't let that fool you.
He's about as rabid an objectivist as you are ever likely to come upon in a forum like this.
On the other hand, in my view, he is intelligent enough to finally accept the points I'm raising regarding objectivism itself. Maybe not in my lifetime but perhaps in yours.
He can then liberate himself from that suffocating frame of mind in which everything he does has to revolve around the "right answers". The stifling assumption that the is/ought world itself becomes just one adjunct of the either/or world. My way or the highway, one of us or one of them.
Trump or else?
Unless, of course, I'm wrong.
Indeed, I may well be. And accepting that about things like God and fascism and guns and abortion is what frees me -- psychologically and otherwise -- to pursue options that the objectivists have banished from their own suppressed, "by the book" life.
Of course, that has its own debilitating facets too.
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Re: fascism in America?
Again, I'm considerably less interested in what they believe here and more intrigued by what they can demonstrate to us that all rational and virtuous men and women are obligated to believe in turn. About God. About fascism. About any "conflicting good".henry quirk wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 1:21 pmYes. The mind, spirit, soul (pick your placeholder).What Henry and IC have in common is they both believe that there is an actual animating force which is a thing.
Also, I'm fascinated more not by what any of us come to believe about them, but how, given the life we lived, we come existentially to embrace one set of normative prejudices rather than another.
Here, however, in my own subjective, "rooted in dasein" personal opinion, both henry and IC become Mr. Wiggle.
Well, at least in their exchanges with me.
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Re: fascism in America?
Nobody cares.I'm considerably less interested...
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Re: fascism in America?
That's certainly true. I just tend to shift the discussion from what we believe about things like God and fascism to what we can demonstrate [even to ourselves] is true about them. Objectively true as some say.Gary Childress wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 2:29 am The world is what it is for all to observe. And either there is a God or there is not. From that point, we can only wonder.
And, in turn, to probe what [existentially] predisposes us to embrace one set of beliefs rather than another...given the actual life we live. A life that can be very, very different from the lives that others here live.
Then the part where philosophers accept that very different lives out in very different worlds understood in very different ways can precipitate very different value judgments. The part where they ask themselves [in places like this] whether, given the technical tools at their disposal, it is possible for philosophers to propound demonstrable arguments regarding how all rational men and women are obligated to think about God and fascism.
Well, my point here is trying explain how a God said to be loving, just and merciful is okay Himself with...Gary Childress wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 2:29 am And if there is God, then either God is OK with certain behaviors or else s/he is not. I assume things like murder, jealousy, anger, greed, lust and cheating on a spouse would not be OK. But that might just be me I suppose. Or what do you think a God is (would be) or isn't (wouldn't be) OK with?
What's Hitler next to God?...an endless procession of earthquakes and volcanic eruptions and tornadoes and hurricanes and great floods and great droughts and great fires and deadly viral and bacterial plagues and miscarriages and hundreds and hundreds of medical and mental afflictions and extinction events...making life on Earth a living hell for countless millions of men, women and children down through the ages.
Or, sure, cue those like Harold Kushner. Or take a leap of faith to God's "mysterious ways".
Whatever most comforts and consoles folks is the way it usually works.
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Re: fascism in America?
So much more to point [mine, for example], is how I continue to reduce you down to ridiculous, substanceless posts like this one.
Look, if you're going down, at least go down swinging.
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Re: fascism in America?
Oh. I'm there with you on that one. It's difficult to reconcile what happens here on Earth with the idea of there being a loving God. But I guess the alternative (no God at all) is pretty scary as well. At least having a God who allegedly occasionally jumps in to proverbially part the waters when it's do or die must be better than no God at all. At least a person can maybe beg or plead with a sentient overlord more so than with an indifferent abyss. Otherwise, there's just too much that can go wrong for our fragile little species here on this delicate little planet. But, I guess, so far, things haven't been catastrophically bad for us as a species, at least.iambiguous wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 6:47 pm What's Hitler next to God?
Or, sure, cue those like Harold Kushner. Or take a leap of faith to God's "mysterious ways".
Whatever most comforts and consoles folks is the way it usually works.
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Re: fascism in America?
Let me add, knock on wood to that last sentence.Gary Childress wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 7:13 pmOh. I'm there with you on that one. It's difficult to reconcile what happens here on Earth with the idea of there being a loving God. But I guess the alternative (no God at all) is pretty scary as well. At least having a God who allegedly occasionally jumps in to proverbially part the waters when it's do or die must be better than no God at all. At least a person can maybe beg or plead with a sentient overlord more so than with an indifferent abyss. Otherwise, there's just too much that can go wrong for our fragile little species here on this delicate little planet. But, I guess, so far, things haven't been catastrophically bad for us as a species, at least.iambiguous wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 6:47 pm What's Hitler next to God?
Or, sure, cue those like Harold Kushner. Or take a leap of faith to God's "mysterious ways".
Whatever most comforts and consoles folks is the way it usually works.
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Re: fascism in America?
Scary and downright grim.Gary Childress wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 7:13 pmOh. I'm there with you on that one. It's difficult to reconcile what happens here on Earth with the idea of there being a loving God. But I guess the alternative (no God at all) is pretty scary as well.iambiguous wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 6:47 pm What's Hitler next to God?
Or, sure, cue those like Harold Kushner. Or take a leap of faith to God's "mysterious ways".
Whatever most comforts and consoles folks is the way it usually works.
No God, and all the terrible things that happen or can happen to us are but more manifestations of the "brute facticity" embedded in an essentially meaningless and purposeless world.
And then that Woody Allen joke: “the food is terrible—and such small portions!”
The same thing with life for some. Tired of living but scared of dying.
Or this rendition of it: https://youtu.be/uRduB40_w7k
From my frame of mind, if someone is able to believe in God [and I've known some very, very intelligent men and women who have...including myself once] then good for them. As long as they are not into insisting that others must share their own faith...or else. The Us vs. Them types who impose fatwas on the infidels.Gary Childress wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 7:13 pmAt least having a God who allegedly occasionally jumps in to proverbially part the waters when it's do or die must be better than no God at all. At least a person can maybe beg or plead with a sentient overlord more so than with an indifferent abyss. Otherwise, there's just too much that can go wrong for our fragile little species here on this delicate little planet. But, I guess, so far, things haven't been catastrophically bad for us as a species, at least.
The same with fascists...when they gain access to power.
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Re: fascism in America?
All you've reduced is my need, with you, to use a lotta words.reduce
That's your department. I recommend: knee pads.going down
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Re: fascism in America?
Again, of his own volition in a free will world, he chooses to post things like this. And is not in least embarrassed by it.henry quirk wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 11:18 pmAll you've reduced is my need, with you, to use a lotta words.reduce
That's your department. I recommend: knee pads.going down
That in and of itself speaks volumes. This would be mortifying even over at The New ILP!!
Next up:
His next post...
MORON!
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Re: fascism in America?
Yep.Again, of his own volition in a free will world, he chooses to post things like this.
Nope.And is not in least embarrassed by it.
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Re: fascism in America?
Allow me please to translate this for you:henry quirk wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 11:35 pmYep.Again, of his own volition in a free will world, he chooses to post things like this.
Nope.And is not in least embarrassed by it.
MORON!
[unless of course it's the other way around]
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Re: fascism in America?
MORON!
Yes, you are...
Yes, you are...
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Re: fascism in America?
"Like shooting fish in a barrel".