fascism in America?

How should society be organised, if at all?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

commonsense
Posts: 5114
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:38 pm

Re: fascism in America?

Post by commonsense »

Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:49 pm
Flannel Jesus wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:46 pm No, I don't think Hillary has ever been sitting president,
She wasn't. Of course.
...and I don't think she went through anywhere near the lengths trump did to stop the election from being certified.
it seems very likely she would have pushed as far as she could.
You’re FOS. How is it that you have the ability to know what anyone would likely do?
User avatar
Immanuel Can
Posts: 22257
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: fascism in America?

Post by Immanuel Can »

FlashDangerpants wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:25 pm Apparently it's not a conspiracy theory because they said in their book that they will make it impossible for you to own stuff (so CONSPIRACY FACT!!!). If you ask for the actual quote, he can't quite furnish you with that though.
Here ya go, silly. :D

It's called "Eight Predictions for the World in 2030," and they pulled it when they realized it was too much, and they didn't want to be held to account for it. So it's harder to find now. But yes, they said it. Somebody always saves such stuff.

And here it is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKwENH-m4oU

There it is, in the WEF's own pro-mo materials.

It's also in an article on their own Facebook site.

Cheers. 8)
User avatar
Immanuel Can
Posts: 22257
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: fascism in America?

Post by Immanuel Can »

commonsense wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:42 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:49 pm
Flannel Jesus wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:46 pm No, I don't think Hillary has ever been sitting president,
She wasn't. Of course.
...and I don't think she went through anywhere near the lengths trump did to stop the election from being certified.
it seems very likely she would have pushed as far as she could.
You’re FOS. How is it that you have the ability to know what anyone would likely do?
Just look at what she actually does. :shock: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77i_pC3lp04

She claimed she would not accept the results of the Trump election, and spent the next months claiming the thing was rigged. So that's how politics are done in America these days.

Sad, but true.
commonsense
Posts: 5114
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:38 pm

Re: fascism in America?

Post by commonsense »

Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:50 pm
commonsense wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:42 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:49 pm
She wasn't. Of course.


it seems very likely she would have pushed as far as she could.
You’re FOS. How is it that you have the ability to know what anyone would likely do?
Just look at what she actually does. :shock: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77i_pC3lp04

She claimed she would not accept the results of the Trump election, and spent the next months claiming the thing was rigged. So that's how politics are done in America these days.

Sad, but true.
And because of this you know what she would’ve done next aside from rhetoric?
commonsense
Posts: 5114
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:38 pm

Re: fascism in America?

Post by commonsense »

BTW YouTube is social media, not news media. Its purpose is to entertain.
User avatar
Immanuel Can
Posts: 22257
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: fascism in America?

Post by Immanuel Can »

commonsense wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 7:03 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:50 pm
commonsense wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:42 pm

You’re FOS. How is it that you have the ability to know what anyone would likely do?
Just look at what she actually does. :shock: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77i_pC3lp04

She claimed she would not accept the results of the Trump election, and spent the next months claiming the thing was rigged. So that's how politics are done in America these days.

Sad, but true.
And because of this you know what she would’ve done next aside from rhetoric?
You think she'd have accepted the results of an election she was crabbing about as "stolen," had she any choice? Where's her love of "truth," "justice" and "democracy"? :lol: She wouldn't fight to defend the democratic process, you think?

I have no doubt you're right. She would have fought for her own interests...nothing more.

But everybody quickly realized her irrelevance, so her options were all gone. So we'll never know what she would have done, had anyone actually liked her.

But being unlikeable and then irrelevant aren't a bargaining position for any politician.
User avatar
iambiguous
Posts: 7208
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm

Re: fascism in America?

Post by iambiguous »

Greg Sargent at the Washington Post

'The apparent position of Republicans loyal to Trump is that any law enforcement activity targeting him is by definition illegitimate, no matter how grave the suspected activity. So a GOP-controlled House next year would likely undermine investigations into Trump any way it can, regardless of what is learned about Trump in the interim.

'But the precise nature of this threat is poorly understood. While many have noted that a GOP House could stage phony Benghazi-like hearings, there’s another possibility: using specific parliamentary tools to, in essence, defund the investigators.

'Such a tactic could badly complicate efforts to hold Trump accountable and could lead to government shutdowns and other chaos. The prospect is even more dire when you consider that a GOP House would contain a large faction of feral Trumpists who see making Trump untouchable by the law as their highest calling.'


This is basically my argument. Forget about an armed insurrection leading to fascism. That would require the Joint Chiefs of Staff going along with the Proud Boys and their ilk. And I doubt that the ruling class and the folks on Wall Street want that until it is absolutely necessary. Economic chaos might result. Instead, MAGA forces in control of both the Congress and the Supreme Court would be the start. Then if Trump or his facsimile take control of the Executive branch as well, what would stop them from legislating and then enforcing an American rendition of fascism?

A working-class rebellion? Hardly likely since the bulk of Trump's base is the white working class. Trump and the ruling class keep them focused on "value voter issues" like race and homosexuality and abortion and immigration. Snickering all the way to the bank.
User avatar
iambiguous
Posts: 7208
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm

Re: fascism in America?

Post by iambiguous »

promethean75 wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:36 pm this fascist stuff is all so overdone and dramatic dude. fulminating leftist journalism. if trump is reelected the only thing you'll notice is different in the four years following 2024 will be the tax cuts. foreign relations, mexican border problems, tariffs, oil prices, etc. will neither make or break anything. you'd not even know it was happening.

the results of republican/conservative policies are always the same: the rich do better, the upper middle class does alright (with good credit) and the lower middle class does bollocks.
Sure, no doubt about it: the media industrial complex will always play up things like this. Anything to bolster circulation. And advertising. And profits.

But that's not to say that your take on it is not just one more point of view. My gut feeling living in a largely white working-class community that reflects the MAGA mentality of Trumpworld...the things I hear!

What's crucial though is the need for a crisis big enough to spark truly dramatic changes. And we all know the potential for that is never ever out of the question.

In fact, ask pregnant women here in America if America is not already fascist.
uwot
Posts: 6093
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:21 am

Meanwhile...

Post by uwot »

Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 8:05 pmBut being unlikeable and then irrelevant aren't a bargaining position for any politician.
How's it working out for you, Mr Can?
Listen, if yer thinking you might have a sensible conversation with Mr Can about politics, understand that he can write gems like this:
Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:24 pmNow, concerning National Socialism, it is Leftist. It's "Socialism." It's not "right wing" at all.
User avatar
iambiguous
Posts: 7208
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm

Re: fascism in America?

Post by iambiguous »

Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:54 pm Is this SERIOUSLY offered as a topic here? :shock:

Does anybody believe that there is a "terrible danger" from "Nazis" rising up in America, or anywhere else?

What are we to start fearing next? Napoleonic guardsmen? Roman legionnaires? An invasion by the Spartans backed by Pharaoh's hordes?

So long as we're in stark terror of historical anachronisms, why not? To worry about "Fascism" in America is just that ridiculous.

There are no political parties representing any "Fascist" concerns, no media shilling for them, no educational institutions established to advance their agenda, no place at all where any such Visigoths have any influence or control at all. You can't find a "Neo-Nazi" in America outside of a biker club or the backwoods of West Virginia. They've got zero influence on the public agenda...even if you can find one at all.

The whole idea is just too, too funny. You may as well be afraid of Casper the friendly ghost...although, he does look a bit like a Democrat klansman in a sort of hood... :lol:
Again, as I noted to prom75, ask any number of pregnant women here in America if the government isn't already fascist. And that's just with Christian theocrats of your ilk controlling only the Supreme Court! Imagine when they control both the Congress and the White House too!!

And then this part: https://youtu.be/RU3GiSoJij8

Admittedly, who really knows how seriously to take all this. And not everyone insists that, like you, if they don't think exactly as a red state True Christian is obligated to think about everything, they will burn in Hell for all of eternity.
User avatar
iambiguous
Posts: 7208
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm

Re: Meanwhile...

Post by iambiguous »

uwot wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:45 pmListen, if yer thinking you might have a sensible conversation with Mr Can about politics, understand that he can write gems like this:
Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:24 pmNow, concerning National Socialism, it is Leftist. It's "Socialism." It's not "right wing" at all.
Indeed. Over at ILP we call them "pinheads".

You know, whoever "we" are. :wink:
promethean75
Posts: 4931
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:29 pm

Re: fascism in America?

Post by promethean75 »

"Now, concerning National Socialism, it is Leftist. It's "Socialism." It's not "right wing" at all."

holy Habsburg historiography did mannie just say the Nazis were communist and not really right-wing? he totally just said that.

Where wuz I when he said this and why wasn't I immediately informed?
User avatar
Immanuel Can
Posts: 22257
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: fascism in America?

Post by Immanuel Can »

iambiguous wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:50 pm ...ask any number of pregnant women here in America if the government isn't already fascist.
Ah, the most reliable and unemotional source of information: the pregnant American female. :wink:

Yes, I'll do that. :?
And then this part: https://youtu.be/RU3GiSoJij8 Admittedly, who really knows how seriously to take all this.
Well, you took the imagined, projected word of alleged pregnant women very seriously, and now that of Whoopsi Goldbrick: so I'm thinking your bar's not incredibly high. :lol:
User avatar
Immanuel Can
Posts: 22257
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: fascism in America?

Post by Immanuel Can »

promethean75 wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:57 pm "Now, concerning National Socialism, it is Leftist. It's "Socialism." It's not "right wing" at all."
Not "Communist." "Socialist."

Commies are "International Socialists. Nazis are "National Socialists." They hate each other, but only in a family squabble. Their difference is not on practices or ideology (they're both totalitarian, economic centrists, big government, anti-enterprise, anti-individualist, etc.), but on the question of who gets to rule.
promethean75
Posts: 4931
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:29 pm

Re: fascism in America?

Post by promethean75 »

bro i don't know how you get that because they are soooo different in soooo many ways. even on the worst days of the lenin-style soviets, they nowhere approached the totalitarian autocracy style of a mao or a stalin. Leninism and Trotskyism as i understand them are the only philosophies faithful to what marx and engels wrote. gotta get that straight first tho. you're comparing two systems that are almost light-years apart as your homegirl Rosa the Red put it
Post Reply