Roe v Wade Overturned?

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godelian
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Re: Abortion Overturned?

Post by godelian »

Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:11 pm Statistically, educated women freely choose to have less than two children each.
Not "freely".

By the time, "educated" women finally start being interested in settling down, in their late twenties and early thirties, they discover that the kind of man that they want, does not want them, and typically exclaim "Where are all the good men?"

The most common outcome is increasingly that "educated" women have no children at all.

I put the term "educated" in quotes because most college degrees do not reflect knowledge imparted but rather propaganda indoctrinated.

Does that mean that they should stop doing that? No, because western civilization is now in its last days. Therefore, it no longer matters anyway. So, let everybody double down on whatever does not work. I consider every attempt to save western civilization or to delay its demise to be not just futile but even counterproductive.
promethean75
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Re: Abortion Overturned?

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Immanuel Can
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Re: Abortion Overturned?

Post by Immanuel Can »

godelian wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:23 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:11 pm Statistically, educated women freely choose to have less than two children each.
Not "freely".
If you look, I'm only talking about until the end of high school. Young women still have their best option years ahead of them then.

The problem you're identifying is real, but it not caused by basically educating young women. It's caused by teaching them that after that, they must have some "fun years" in their twenties, along with some degrees and a financially secure job before they can take any marriage project seriously. By 28 or 30, their options are seriously narrowing, and then you're right.

And that's a Western problem, for sure; but it's not necessary. We could encourage young women to have an education that would allow them to make choices for themselves, but not stigmatize honest motherhood as a career option, or mandate that they all have to have useless degrees, or lie to them about what fun the work world is going to turn out to be. That would be better.
I put the term "educated" in quotes because most college degrees do not reflect knowledge imparted but rather propaganda indoctrinated.
Sadly, that is the absolute truth...especially in the Humanities right now. They're almost unsalvageably corrupt. It's neo-Marxism that's behind all the brain-rot at the universities right now.
I consider every attempt to save western civilization or to delay its demise to be not just futile but even counterproductive.
An interesting view. I'm not so cynical, though I understand.

I would prefer to be a force for positive things, even if that's ultimately unsuccessful in arresting the decline, because I have to give my own answer to God for the role I played in that drama. I want to be able to say, at the very least, "I tried to make it stop." And at the end of the day, that's the most important thing.
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Dontaskme
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Re: Abortion Overturned?

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Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:43 pm

I would prefer to be a force for positive things, even if that's ultimately unsuccessful in arresting the decline, because I have to give my own answer to God for the role I played in that drama. I want to be able to say, at the very least, "I tried to make it stop." And at the end of the day, that's the most important thing.
How very noble of you.

You tried to make it stop, huh!


How about stopping to think about how moral it is to bring children into an immoral world they did not make?

How about stopping to think about that crazy idea you came up with about man having free will, the freedom to choose immortality or morality…. How do you think you are going to stop someone else’s free will? Without taking their free will away?
Is that your job to take away someone else’s free will?

Only your God can do that .. isn’t that right IC. . After all wasn’t it God who gave it to us?

Now that leaves you powerless to do anything to stop it, doesn’t it?


So tell us, oh wise man, what does a God intervention / judgement look like toward someone who has used their free will? Have you ever seen it taken away from them by God? You’d think he’d have the good sense to stop the decline, huh!..or perhaps free will was just your own personal invention because you are a self aware being, knowing concepts..huh!
How can the powerless have the power to stop free will? Huh!

Hmm, lots of important questions for you to answer IC; if you dare, that is!
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FlashDangerpants
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Re: Abortion Overturned?

Post by FlashDangerpants »

Walker wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 12:15 pm
"including in Britain, for “socioeconomic reasons.”'
That either means that more poor folks get to abort their progeny while the poor little fellers and gals are in the fetal* stage of development, or else it means rich folks have more access to abortion.

Any Britains care to clarify which?


* or: foetal, if you like tomahtoes.
It means nothing of the sort. In the UK everyone has healthcare, and every woman can get an abortion on request. The form you fill out will ask why, and you can put something vague like “socioeconomic reasons” there, because we leave it to the doctors and the patients to make medical choices instead of letting nasty old bastards inflict their religion on everyone.
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Mr Can is a fucking idiot...

Post by uwot »

Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:43 pmWe could encourage young women to have an education that would allow them to make choices for themselves...
Do those choices include the choice to tell you to go fuck yourself, Mr Can? You are a hypocrite; you don't want to teach young women to make their own choices, you want to 'educate' them to make choices you approve of.
Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:43 pmI would prefer to be a force for positive things, even if that's ultimately unsuccessful in arresting the decline, because I have to give my own answer to God for the role I played in that drama. I want to be able to say, at the very least, "I tried to make it stop." And at the end of the day, that's the most important thing.
Yes Mr Can, we know that what matters to you is how your god looks upon you, because you don't really give a fuck about anyone else. Your god sees through your insincerity, and in your honest moments, so do you. The good news is, that despite your worst fears, you will not burn in hell for your weakness. Cheer up, Mr Can, and try to be less of a twat.
godelian
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Re: Abortion Overturned?

Post by godelian »

Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:43 pm If you look, I'm only talking about until the end of high school. Young women still have their best option years ahead of them then.
The divorce rate, even for high school graduates, is already 50% or more. No need for these girls to join the hookup culture in college to completely sink that ship. At that point, the ship is actually sinking already.

Furthermore, sexual promiscuity fueled by the school system, is not the only reason why the system does not work, and will never work. Sexual promiscuity is just a symptom. It is not the cause.

If a girl wants commitment from a man, that is because her hypergamy says that he is taller, stronger, richer, and whatever else more than her. She is not the only girl to believes that. So, the man she wants, obviously has options.

In fact, she wants him because the balance of power is very much in his favor.

Signing a marriage contract or even merely cohabitating would reverse the balance of power and hand over the power in the relationship to the girl.

Relationships only take place when the man is in a position of power in the relationship. When that changes, the relationship will effectively be over. Hence, marriage (or even cohabitation) is pretty much always the beginning of the end.

Therefore, unless the man is a complete idiot, he will not chop off the very branch that he is sitting on. Hence, he gives her nothing, and certainly not any form of commitment. There will be no concessions, and he will certainly not respond to any ultimatum. He will rather rotate her out and replace her by another side chick.

Men may actually some day also want children but not badly enough to give up their position of power.

The modern woman actually knows that the man that she "loves", does not "love" her, and that he never will. Controlling emotions and remaining emotionally unavailable is simply a matter of self-preservation for a man.

Therefore, women simply cannot hope to win against the top tier of men at this game of 4D chess. Women should have known that upfront. If she wins from a man, then her hypergamy will tell her to move on because he is a loser.

Therefore, by attempting to reverse the balance of power between man and woman, the legal system has not improved the situation for women. No, on the contrary, it has turned them into mere pieces of meat only suitable for temporarily providing sexual tension relief. In modern times, women are adversaries of men, enemies if you will, and are treated as such.

In past times, a woman would have been hired by a man for having children and looking after them. In past times, it would even have been relatively safe for a man to moderately "love" a woman (but never too much). Nowadays, no man right in his mind would ever do that. On the contrary, he will rather view her with quite a bit of hostility.

This situation is not sustainable because nobody wants children in these circumstances.

In that sense, the collapse of western civilization and the wholesale destruction of its governments, is the only thing that can still save its population from complete extinction.
Walker
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Re: Abortion Overturned?

Post by Walker »

FlashDangerpants wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 11:45 pm
Walker wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 12:15 pm
"including in Britain, for “socioeconomic reasons.”'
That either means that more poor folks get to abort their progeny while the poor little fellers and gals are in the fetal* stage of development, or else it means rich folks have more access to abortion.

Any Britains care to clarify which?


* or: foetal, if you like tomahtoes.
It means nothing of the sort. In the UK everyone has healthcare, and every woman can get an abortion on request. The form you fill out will ask why, and you can put something vague like “socioeconomic reasons” there, because we leave it to the doctors and the patients to make medical choices instead of letting nasty old bastards inflict their religion on everyone.
Interesting. Apparently the "first-class" treatment doesn't exist in Britain.

Seeing as everyone knows that’s not a gazelle or watermelon growing in the woman’s tummy (not the man’s tummy), no doubt such requests get processed pronto and aren’t shuffled to the back burner.
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FlashDangerpants
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Re: Abortion Overturned?

Post by FlashDangerpants »

Walker wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 11:39 am
FlashDangerpants wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 11:45 pm
Walker wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 12:15 pm
That either means that more poor folks get to abort their progeny while the poor little fellers and gals are in the fetal* stage of development, or else it means rich folks have more access to abortion.

Any Britains care to clarify which?


* or: foetal, if you like tomahtoes.
It means nothing of the sort. In the UK everyone has healthcare, and every woman can get an abortion on request. The form you fill out will ask why, and you can put something vague like “socioeconomic reasons” there, because we leave it to the doctors and the patients to make medical choices instead of letting nasty old bastards inflict their religion on everyone.
Interesting. Apparently the "first-class" treatment doesn't exist in Britain.
I don't know what that's supposed to mean. Abortion is usually a very simple process easily accesible on demand by all who require it.
Walker wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 11:39 am Seeing as everyone knows that’s not a gazelle or watermelon growing in the woman’s tummy (not the man’s tummy), no doubt such requests get processed pronto and aren’t shuffled to the back burner.
I've no idea what you are trying to say there either.
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Re: Abortion Overturned?

Post by Gary Childress »

Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:11 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 5:19 am So it appears that there will probably be far fewer abortions in the US than before. I'm wondering if that will lead to more care and use of contraceptives in intercourse or else a huge population surge.

For those who believe abortion is wrong, what is your plan for if the world becomes overpopulated to the point that we run out of resources to nourish everyone?

Educate women.
And I don't mean primarily "about reproduction." Just give them the means and opportunity to get at least the end of high school, with options for career, business or higher ed. Until then, guarantee them security of their persons.

Statistically, educated women freely choose to have less than two children each. If we do that, the world reproductive levels will soon fall below replacement levels, and we'll have to encourage women to have more children for the good of society. In other words, we'll have the opposite problem.

We have enough arable land in the world right now...more than enough to feed everybody. In fact, we could feed a lot more, if centralized governments and corrupt totalitarian regimes were not so common. However, that's a political, not an agricultural shortcoming. We have the food.

But educating women would be the right thing to do...for them, for us, and for the world. Then we could let people be free, and still keep population under control. Everybody wins.

Not only that, but by educating women, we won't have to kill any of them anymore.

Problem solved.
I think that's very noble but what about people who don't think there is a soul or don't think that human life begins at conception? Should they be forced to abide by the rules of people who believe the opposite? I mean, why not allow some people access to abortion if they so choose? Certainly, you would be free to disapprove of it and to not do it yourself, however, to force your worldview on others who don't share it seems like it could possibly be wrong.
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Sculptor
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Re: Abortion Overturned?

Post by Sculptor »

Nuff said.
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Sculptor
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Re: Abortion Overturned?

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And in all seriousness.
Who would call this a person?

And why? Be honest
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Abortion Overturned?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Sculptor wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 10:28 am And in all seriousness.
Who would call this a person?

And why? Be honest
fetua.JPG
Your natural misogyny is fucking you up. You should just keep out of this.
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Sculptor
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Re: Abortion Overturned?

Post by Sculptor »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 10:34 am
Sculptor wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 10:28 am And in all seriousness.
Who would call this a person?

And why? Be honest
fetua.JPG
Your natural misogyny is fucking you up. You should just keep out of this.
You are more of a misogynist that anyone on the thread.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Abortion Overturned?

Post by Immanuel Can »

godelian wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 2:52 am
Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:43 pm If you look, I'm only talking about until the end of high school. Young women still have their best option years ahead of them then.
The divorce rate, even for high school graduates, is already 50% or more... This situation is not sustainable because nobody wants children in these circumstances. In that sense, the collapse of western civilization and the wholesale destruction of its governments, is the only thing that can still save its population from complete extinction.
I don't disagree with most of your take on the current situation. And we agree that the situation has to change. So far, so good.

But the overpopulation crisis is not a Western problem. If we, as a planet, have any such danger, it's purely a product of the abuses going on in the Underdeveloped World, where women are often kept ignorant and optionless, and end up having several children each, often without any means to meet their basic needs.

Educating these women changes that. Voluntarily. Without killing any children. While helping women have better lives. And making the world richer. It's the right thing AND the smart thing to do.

As for Western women, I don't deny that they have been indoctrinated beyond saving, in many cases. Statistically, they don't even reproduce themselves anymore. (It's almost like they know that their kind is not really worth perpetuating, ironically.) So the dysfunction of their relationships, as horrendous as it is, has no bearing on the population issue -- which is, of course, the issue we were talking about in the first place before we got side-tracked to how messed up Western marriages are.
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