January 6th hearings

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Sculptor
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Re: January 6th hearings

Post by Sculptor »

I'm pretty sure I already answered this one.
I suppose it got lost in the ether..

But what I said was that They (not the left but the police) did throw Hitler in gaol. That is where he wrote Mein Kampf., but he was a man with an IQ more than 45, he was young and still had his political career ahead of him..
For Trump it would be different. he'd probably spend the rest of his life trying to stay out of gaol on endless appeals. It would be the effective end of his elective career. Americans like a winner they hate losers.
I'm pretty sure that having serious criminals charges against him would preclude standing for office - it would in most other countries.
Yes I am an American citizen but do not live there, and never will.

I do not think that Trump has a political future whether or not he is convicted, but America itself will not have a political future if the US fucks this up by letting him off the hook.
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iambiguous
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Re: January 6th hearings

Post by iambiguous »

Sculptor wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 8:01 pm
iambiguous wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:46 pm
iambiguous wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 4:26 pmThink of the dire consequences of both a MAGA Congress and a MAGA White House. Meaning an even more reactionary cast among the Supremes.
Sculptor wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:32 pm Indeed.
Throw him in Jail! Throw him in Jail! Throw him in Jail! Throw him in Jail!
Then back to this:

"...what if the left in Nazi Germany had succeeded in throwing Adolph Hitler in jail back then? Would that have ended his influence...or speeded it up all the more?"
They (not the "left" but the police) did throw him in gaol. That's where he wrote Mein Kampf.
But he was still young.
Trump is practically already dead and would spend the next ten years on legal appeals until he died.
Three words: Donald Trump Junior.
Just out of curiosity, are you an American citizen? I mean, if the left rolls the dice and we do end up with "sieg heil!" this and "sieg heil!" that, you'll be here with the rest of us bearing the brunt of the consequences, right?
Sculptor wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 8:01 pmI am technically an American, but have lived in the UK most of my life.
Americans like to back winners. A Trump who was facing gaol would not look so attractive.
I reject the idea that the threat from Trump will be more if convicted.
Okay, from way, way, way over there you reject the idea of it. The actual reality of it on the other hand for those of us over here...

Though, sure, you might be right.

And there is the sheer drama/spectacle of it all...
promethean75
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Re: January 6th hearings

Post by promethean75 »

I was very disappointed in Mike Pence. I said to Mike Pence, ‘Mike, you’re no Thomas Jefferson.'
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iambiguous
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Re: January 6th hearings

Post by iambiguous »

See, arguments from both sides:

Eugene Robinson at the Washington Post:

'There are obvious risks in a political system where criminal charges and jail sentences can be used to achieve political ends.

'All we need to do is look to South America, where former presidents Carlos Menem of Argentina, Alberto Fujimori of Peru and Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva of Brazil all were sentenced to prison terms for various crimes including, in Fujimori’s case, the creation of a murderous right-wing death squad. In each case, die-hard supporters believed their hero had been railroaded for political purposes. Those prosecutions may have served justice. But their sentences did nothing, at least in the short term, for unity or stability.

'And the prosecutions created an incentive for revenge. If Lula defeats President Jair Bolsonaro in Brazil’s October election, will the Trump-like Bolsonaro be put in the dock? Closer to home, would the next Republican administration invent some reason to bring charges against President Biden or his son Hunter?'


And

'We should not rush to become that kind of country. But it might be even more dangerous to live in the sort of nation where a president can violate the law with absolute impunity. Once, we might have worried about a leader who would risk shooting a man on Fifth Avenue. Now, we risk being governed by a president who will try his best to negate the will of the voters and remain in office despite having been dismissed.'

Assuming of course the machinations of the "deep state" are not in play here.

With the Supremes giving the liberals an opportunity to rally the voters around the abortion issue, will the indictment of Trump offer the conservatives the same sort of pivotal issue from the other end of the political spectrum at the polls?
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iambiguous
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Re: January 6th hearings

Post by iambiguous »

Bret Stephens at the NYT

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/28/opin ... aring.html

'Americans may someday come to understand Donald Trump as the most successful cult leader of our times. The question is whether the House select committee investigating the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the Capitol can begin to steer some of the Trump faithful toward the kind of cult deprogramming they so desperately need.

'I’m starting to think it might, if not with his most fervent loyalists, then at least with a critical mass of his voters.

'Tuesday’s dramatic testimony to the committee by Cassidy Hutchinson, an aide to Trump’s chief of staff, Mark Meadows, changes the game. If what she says is true, no longer are we dealing with a committee that is putting a fluorescent light to a set of facts with which we were already broadly familiar.

'This is something else: testimony that the president didn’t care that the mob that stormed Congress was armed and that he even tried to lead it by grabbing for the steering wheel of his armored limousine.

'“You know, I don’t f-ing care that they have weapons,” Hutchinson testified she overheard the president saying during his rally on Jan. 6. “Let my people in. They can march to the Capitol from here.”'


Of course the most fanatic Trumpaholics won't be persuaded by any of this. On the contrary, to them Trump becomes all the more the hero because contrary to the media reports that Trump skedaddled over to the White House instead of joining his supporters, it turns out he was determined to join them...only to be denied that opportunity by the Secret Service. If Hutchison's testimony is true.

And that brings up this: how far can the Secret Service and others go in preventing a president from doing something they don't approve of?

Anyway, today's testimony will surely make it harder for the "deep state" folks to keep Trump from being indicted.

Or not of course.
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Sculptor
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Re: January 6th hearings

Post by Sculptor »

It is interesting to compare and contrast the happening in Sri Lanka where thousands upon thousands of ordinary unarmed people have respectfully and gently occupied government buildings without breaking any thing, and allowed the police to protect keys areas without any violence.
They are a true democratic movement, and not just a bunch of violent thugs misled by a tyrant.

After a few days things ae getting hot though.
Walker
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Re: January 6th hearings

Post by Walker »

Liz Cheney is a RINO (Republican in name only.) She chairs the Kangaroo Court. She was recently, overwhelming, voted out of office by a huge margin. These are the facts.

Here's an opinion, based on the facts.

*

Liz Cheney’s Agony
https://www.americanthinker.com/article ... agony.html

“Although an “investigation” is supposed to be a search for the truth, Liz Cheney made agonizingly clear many times that she didn’t need to wait for the results of the investigation.

From the beginning her stated aim was “make sure that Trump never gets near the White House again.” Permanent Washington also made their aim clear. The Jan. 6th Committee “investigation” was for her, and many others, mere political theatre to achieve a predetermined political agenda.”
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