Is Success Luck or Hard Work?...

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Scott Mayers
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Re: Is Success Luck or Hard Work?...

Post by Scott Mayers »

Age wrote: Thu Mar 31, 2022 8:24 pm ...
I recognized what you meant in general and was not presuming you didn't agree with me for the most part. My comments to that was limited to the quoted reference as it is and your blown up response is unnecessary given you assumed that I was somehow against your actual views as understood in context to your responses here and elsewhere.

You don't need to feel defensive as though I offended. And I should likely have known better than to respond to your post directly at all.

Since you generally agree to the concerns other than whatver excess issue of the term 'success', I respectfully will concentrate on those who are actually oppositional to this politically. You are not politically biased to this issue and so answering that long post response would be an unnecessary waste of time and more likely than not, lead those whom I intended to argue this to just stop participating. You and I likely agree but are talking past one another.
Age
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Re: Is Success Luck or Hard Work?...

Post by Age »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 6:29 am
Scott Mayers wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 6:12 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Tue Mar 29, 2022 7:33 am How are you defining 'success'? Would that be the American definition i.e. how much money you have?
The linked youTube video wasn't sufficient context? "Success" is understood to be to acheive ones' personal goals, regardless of what they are. Given money, or rather, 'worth', is the most common measure we can share, "success" is often related to it and suffices as a standard to measure other forms of success in general.

People who generally 'succeed' by some predisposed economic advantage ('luck' in the video) tend to tell others that 'success' is earned by one's virtue (hard work). But they are projecting what they want you to think of their own success: as though it is unrelated to accident nor their predisposed wealth.
I couldn't be bothered listening to him. What a load of frivolous bollocks.
If you did 'bother', then you MIGHT SEE, as I dis, that that person is NOT 'trying to' "justify" NOR 'prove' ANY 'thing' but is JUST 'sharing a view', which, to me, has a fair amount of ACTUAL Truth in it.

Obviously "others" might see differently.
Age
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Re: Is Success Luck or Hard Work?...

Post by Age »

Scott Mayers wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 7:57 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 7:10 am
Scott Mayers wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 7:04 am
But how would you know it was bull shit* if you didn't watch it?

*I charitably translated this to more humble down-to-earth expression we use in North America. Using language like "...frivolous bollocks," to us in North America sounds stereotypically haughty (hoity toity?) and smug as though said by Mr. Burns from the Simpsons. :lol:
I saw the first few seconds and that was enough. Why would I care what he thinks? I suppose many things sound 'hoity toity' to those with a severely limited vocabulary.
It was the irony that the WAY you said it as though atypical response of the one guilty of just such 'luck' but deluded into thinking they somehow earned all they have absolutely independent of others' roles in contributing more significantly to such prosperity.

The argument was demonstrated statistically and very logically.
But NO 'argument' is 'needed' is there?

I thought what was said was ALREADY 'common knowledge', well to the masses anyway, and was only NOT 'known' to those who thought "themselves" better than "others".

Scott Mayers wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 7:57 am There is no doubt about it beyond one's religious or emotive reluctance to accept it of themselves. He also argues how evolution still favors us deluding ourselves necessarily if only to maintain the motivation to keep trying even against the odds.
But through evolution 'delusion' NEVER 'favors' ANY one.

'Delusion' ONLY DISFAVORS the 'human being'.

The 'world' would NOT have been in the MESS that it was in, in the days when this was being written, if 'delusion' was 'favoring' 'you', human beings.

It was ONLY through CLARITY and UNDERSTANDING of thee ACTUAL True Picture of Life, Itself, that 'you', human beings, were ABLE to evolve PAST 'your' DELUDED view of 'things' and come to live IN thee True Peaceful war-less and pollution-free 'world'.
Scott Mayers wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 7:57 am Since I am arguing against issues within capitalism that creates problems based upon our dependence upon deception, I referenced this separately.
If you have ANY 'argument' for such, then WHY NOT just PRESENT 'that'?
Scott Mayers wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 7:57 am If you disagree, what arguments do you have as a counter defence? ....or are you just evading what you know this might lead to if you had to argue it rationally?
If you WANT to 'argue for' what 'you' ALREADY BELIEVE is true, then just do it.

But, going on such an extend roundabout way is NOT going to help you.
Scott Mayers
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Re: Is Success Luck or Hard Work?...

Post by Scott Mayers »

RCSaunders wrote: Thu Mar 31, 2022 8:56 pm If you don't want my comments, stop throwing your collectivist political swill at me.

There is no such thing as an honest politician (and I believe there is a mental defect in anyone who takes any aspect of politics seriously), especially when they cannot think of anything except in terms of politics or some political ideology. Who the hell is this, "we," you keep talking about. It does not include me.

Every individual is what they choose to be and make of themselves. Nothing, "makes," anyone choose anything, not their genetics, culture, ethnic background, gender, education, economic status, or anything else. If one is a crook (such as a politician or any other government employee living on other people's money confiscated from them by taxes, including every, law enforcement agent and school teacher) it's what they chose to be.

I know you'll see that as a judgement, but I only meant it as an honest description of what someone is. Most people love the crooks who steal their money and tell them what to do, go to rallies to support them and send them money to support the campaigns, which is fine with me. I do not choose to have anything to do with such people, personally, because is see no advantage whatsoever in supporting anyone whose only interest in me is stealing my money and telling me how to live my life. I have no objection to you, or anyone else doing that if you like and would never attempt to interfere in your choice to do so. I suspect, if you were able, you would prevent me from explaining why I wouldn't do that, however; but I would never stop you from promoting your absurd political agenda.
You are non-responsive to the extended effort I just went into that post assuming a 'welcome'. I did NOT unwelcome you and 'we' where I opted to use it needs context. But, in context of this response you are likely against me merely defending anything you don't already believe.

I'd ask you to clarify some more things you just said that is off but I don't want to digress and waste my time when I see it is futile.

See, sometimes hard work DOES prove to be useless. Or am I just having bad luck?
Age
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Re: Is Success Luck or Hard Work?...

Post by Age »

RCSaunders wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 11:33 am
Scott Mayers wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 6:39 am
RCSaunders wrote: Tue Mar 29, 2022 3:24 pm
That's your definition. I didn't know you were an American.

I know a few people in America. None of them define success in terms of money at all. How many Americans do you know who have that opinion?

[Pardon me, but your prejudices are showing.]
Actually, all people do anywhere but the U.S. most signficantly symbolizes success in terms of 'worth' using relative currency, even if one is not actually directly dealing with money....
You too? You define success as, "financial success," but the word success only means achieving what one aspires to achieve. Perhaps you never heard of artistic success, literary success, scientific success, or the success of those who discover new things, achieve what has never been achieved before, or successfully completing a course, building a house, grow a garden, raising a family, or just cooking a mean and enjoying others without ever having a thought about money.

You need to get out of your philosophy/economics classes and live in the world more, I think. Everything is not politics.
OBVIOUSLY "scott mayers" is Wrong in regards to, "ALL people define 'success' in terms of money", but is it NOT wrong that MOST adult human beings relate the word 'success' with 'money'? And, as "vegetariantaxidermy" POINTED OUT the adult population, especially, and more so, in the "united states of america" consider 'success' in relation to money, only.

This phenomenon was due to the fact that MOST adult human beings, well in the days when this was being written, actually BELIEVED that they NEEDED 'money' to 'live'. So, it was NOT surprising that those human beings actually, but VERY Wrongly, associated 'successful living' with how much money one had (GREEDILY) obtained.
Age
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Re: Is Success Luck or Hard Work?...

Post by Age »

Scott Mayers wrote: Thu Mar 31, 2022 1:13 am
RCSaunders wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 11:33 am
Scott Mayers wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 6:39 am
Actually, all people do anywhere but the U.S. most signficantly symbolizes success in terms of 'worth' using relative currency, even if one is not actually directly dealing with money....
You too? You define success as, "financial success," but the word success only means achieving what one aspires to achieve. Perhaps you never heard of artistic success, literary success, scientific success, or the success of those who discover new things, achieve what has never been achieved before, or successfully completing a course, building a house, grow a garden, raising a family, or just cooking a mean and enjoying others without ever having a thought about money.

You need to get out of your philosophy/economics classes and live in the world more, I think. Everything is not politics.
I SAID that financial measures is a sufficient and an appropriate measure for 'success'; where 'success' is not representable in terms of some standard of 'currency', it is strictly personal, religious, and has NO AFFECT ON OTHERS.
BUT, 'financial measures' are NOT a 'sufficient' NOR 'appropriate' measure AT ALL for 'success'.

In Fact regarding 'success' in relation to 'financial measures' was one of the BIGGEST CAUSES of the downfall of 'human beings', which led up to the WARING and POLLUTION RIDDLED 'world' that they had to live in and ENDURE, back in the days when this was being written.
Scott Mayers wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 7:57 am Please respond to the thread's context by supplying what you believe is the alternative.
'Success' is in relation to; 'WHAT IS GOOD and Right for ALL', and NOT just 'some'.

SERIOUSLY, do 'you', adult human beings, REALLY NEED to be TOLD of what is just PLAIN OBVIOUS?
Scott Mayers wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 7:57 am I know that you are both religious and conservative and that you are deflecting what you don't want others to pay attention to. Given you've only tweeted your disagreement, we all know where you stand. But this is a philosophy site and my topic IS fit for this discussion and DEBATE,
LOL What is 'it' that 'you' think or BELIEVE there is to be 'debated' here?

How about instead of 'stepping around' what 'you' ALREADY BELIEVE is true, and you just come out and STATE 'it' CLEARLY, and then 'we' can DISCUSS 'that'.
Scott Mayers wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 7:57 am if you disagree. voicing your emotional feelings is itself NOT relevant nor necessary; challenge the view.
What is "the view"?

Is it NOT YET OBVIOUS that most of those who come to obtain MORE money than "others", BELIEVE that they have obtained this money through 'hard work', and that they therefore so-call "deserve" 'more money'?

They BELIEVE that their, laughable, "hard work" has led to their so-call "success", of being 'monetary wealthy', and that "others" should 'respect' this, and that in fact the "others" should even be 'grateful' that they have been given jobs, which, in fact, they should be 'working harder' so that the 'richer' can become even 'more richer'. Which makes all-of-this even MORE LAUGHABLE, when one Truly just SITS BACK and OBSERVES.
Scott Mayers wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 7:57 am How am I expected to be convinced of "you're wrong" feelings without an argument?
TALK ABOUT TWISTING and SKEWING 'things' AROUND COMPLETELY.

I NEVER SAW "rcsaunders" expressing ANY 'thing' that way.
Age
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Re: Is Success Luck or Hard Work?...

Post by Age »

commonsense wrote: Thu Mar 31, 2022 2:16 am
Scott Mayers wrote: Tue Mar 29, 2022 6:58 am YouTube linked me to Veritasium's video, and I'm forwarding it here: "Is Success Luck or Hard Work?".

For all political discussions that go on here, this video presents a careful look at whether luck or effort matters more to one's success. I already shared this view and have promoted all the ideas in parts of my own arguments everywhere. Veritasium did a better job at summarizing this and explains with scientific rationality.

What are your thoughts? Did you CHANGE any view after watching?
The video changed nothing for me as I already understood the importance of both KSA (knowledge, skills and attitude) and chance or luck in achieving a goal.

Without luck it makes no difference how committed one is to the successful accomplishment of a goal. There are always factors beyond an individual’s control—and even possibly beyond explanation—that are determinants of success or failure.
Let us see if "scott mayers" can also see, from your perspective, what I thought was already understood to most and just 'commonsense' anyway.
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Re: Is Success Luck or Hard Work?...

Post by Age »

RCSaunders wrote: Thu Mar 31, 2022 2:40 am
Scott Mayers wrote: Thu Mar 31, 2022 1:13 am
Please respond to the thread's context by supplying what you believe is the alternative. I know that you are both religious and conservative and that you are deflecting what you don't want others to pay attention to.
Well that's your whole problem. I am not only not religious and totally a-political, I subscribe to no ideology and do not promote or support any program or agenda. Please see my article, "What I Don't Believe," posted on PN just for folks like you who make judgments about my beliefs without having the slightest idea what they are.
Scott Mayers wrote: Thu Mar 31, 2022 1:13 am ... But this is a philosophy site and my topic IS fit for this discussion and DEBATE, if you disagree.
Then I suggest you stick to discussing ideas instead of attempting to psychologize others and judge their motives. Perhaps that's your idea of philosophy.
Scott Mayers wrote: Thu Mar 31, 2022 1:13 am ... voicing your emotional feelings is itself NOT relevant nor necessary; challenge the view. How am I expected to be convinced of "you're wrong" feelings without an argument?
What feelings? Nothing I think, believe, choose, say, or do is ever determined by any feelings. I have no use for feelings as a basis for any behavior or choices, especially not mine, and certainly not anyone else's sentimental nonsense.
Do you use 'feelings' AT ALL?

If no, then what do you envision was the purpose for 'feelings', if any?
RCSaunders wrote: Thu Mar 31, 2022 2:40 am It was you who responded to a comment I made to vegetariantaxidermy that expressed a similar view of success, which I regard as based on political prejudice, not an objective or rational understanding of what success is. Financial success is just one kind of success but hardly the whole of what success means. I certainly would not regard someone who had accumulated lots of wealth, but led a miserable and unhappy life a success.
simplicity
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Re: Is Success Luck or Hard Work?...

Post by simplicity »

Scott Mayers wrote: Tue Mar 29, 2022 6:58 amWhat are your thoughts?
It has been known for---ever that the harder you work, the "luckier" you become.Think about this way...

Let's say you own a home. Your house [like all houses] requires a certain amount of maintenance and upkeep. Joe really isn't too keen on doing such things [as he would rather spend his time contemplating his navel] so he just takes care of the critical maintenance issues [broken hot water heater, etc.]. Bob, otoh, is a seriously hard worker and not takes care the regular issues which crop-up with any home, but he also takes a preventative approach by taking care of any nascent issue on a regular basis.

Predictably, Bob's house performs wonderfully as he rarely has to deal with any maintenance surprises whereas Joe is always having to deal with this or that [serious] issue in his house. Is Bob just lucky?

The same applies to pretty much everything in life, health, finances, relationships, etc. Of course, there are the occasional bizarre occurrences that take place [weather, war, accidents where you just happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time], and although these can be fatal, most of life is just routine things that anybody who is willing to work hard can decidedly tip the scale]of success in their favor.

It should be no surprise to anybody that 99.9% of the most successful folks out there [however you wish to define it] are very hard workers.
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Re: Is Success Luck or Hard Work?...

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Age wrote: Thu Mar 31, 2022 9:12 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 6:29 am
Scott Mayers wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 6:12 am
The linked youTube video wasn't sufficient context? "Success" is understood to be to acheive ones' personal goals, regardless of what they are. Given money, or rather, 'worth', is the most common measure we can share, "success" is often related to it and suffices as a standard to measure other forms of success in general.

People who generally 'succeed' by some predisposed economic advantage ('luck' in the video) tend to tell others that 'success' is earned by one's virtue (hard work). But they are projecting what they want you to think of their own success: as though it is unrelated to accident nor their predisposed wealth.
I couldn't be bothered listening to him. What a load of frivolous bollocks.
If you did 'bother', then you MIGHT SEE, as I dis, that that person is NOT 'trying to' "justify" NOR 'prove' ANY 'thing' but is JUST 'sharing a view', which, to me, has a fair amount of ACTUAL Truth in it.

Obviously "others" might see differently.
Why would I care what he 'thinks'? He's trying to get subscribers. I can think for myself. I couldn't give a flying rat's arse what some money-grubbing internet 'motivator' has to say about anything.
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Re: Is Success Luck or Hard Work?...

Post by RCSaunders »

Scott Mayers wrote: Thu Mar 31, 2022 9:26 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Thu Mar 31, 2022 8:56 pm If you don't want my comments, stop throwing your collectivist political swill at me.

There is no such thing as an honest politician (and I believe there is a mental defect in anyone who takes any aspect of politics seriously), especially when they cannot think of anything except in terms of politics or some political ideology. Who the hell is this, "we," you keep talking about. It does not include me.

Every individual is what they choose to be and make of themselves. Nothing, "makes," anyone choose anything, not their genetics, culture, ethnic background, gender, education, economic status, or anything else. If one is a crook (such as a politician or any other government employee living on other people's money confiscated from them by taxes, including every, law enforcement agent and school teacher) it's what they chose to be.

I know you'll see that as a judgement, but I only meant it as an honest description of what someone is. Most people love the crooks who steal their money and tell them what to do, go to rallies to support them and send them money to support the campaigns, which is fine with me. I do not choose to have anything to do with such people, personally, because is see no advantage whatsoever in supporting anyone whose only interest in me is stealing my money and telling me how to live my life. I have no objection to you, or anyone else doing that if you like and would never attempt to interfere in your choice to do so. I suspect, if you were able, you would prevent me from explaining why I wouldn't do that, however; but I would never stop you from promoting your absurd political agenda.
You are non-responsive to the extended effort I just went into that post assuming a 'welcome'. I did NOT unwelcome you and 'we' where I opted to use it needs context. But, in context of this response you are likely against me merely defending anything you don't already believe.

I'd ask you to clarify some more things you just said that is off but I don't want to digress and waste my time when I see it is futile.

See, sometimes hard work DOES prove to be useless. Or am I just having bad luck?
Comment noted.
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Re: Is Success Luck or Hard Work?...

Post by RCSaunders »

Age wrote: Thu Mar 31, 2022 9:54 pm Do you use 'feelings' AT ALL?
Feelings are very important and I certainly pay attention to them, but, "use," them is definitely the wrong attitude. If you really are interested in what feelings and what their true importance is, please see my articles, "Feelings," and
'Feelings And Emotions—Their Nature, Significance, And Importance." Even if you don't like the article, the picture should make you smile and feel good.
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Re: Is Success Luck or Hard Work?...

Post by Age »

Scott Mayers wrote: Thu Mar 31, 2022 3:10 am
RCSaunders wrote: Thu Mar 31, 2022 2:40 am
Scott Mayers wrote: Thu Mar 31, 2022 1:13 am
Please respond to the thread's context by supplying what you believe is the alternative. I know that you are both religious and conservative and that you are deflecting what you don't want others to pay attention to.
Well that's your whole problem. I am not only not religious and totally a-political, I subscribe to no ideology and do not promote or support any program or agenda. Please see my article, "What I Don't Believe," posted on PN just for folks like you who make judgments about my beliefs without having the slightest idea what they are.
Scott Mayers wrote: Thu Mar 31, 2022 1:13 am ... But this is a philosophy site and my topic IS fit for this discussion and DEBATE, if you disagree.
Then I suggest you stick to discussing ideas instead of attempting to psychologize others and judge their motives. Perhaps that's your idea of philosophy.
Scott Mayers wrote: Thu Mar 31, 2022 1:13 am ... voicing your emotional feelings is itself NOT relevant nor necessary; challenge the view. How am I expected to be convinced of "you're wrong" feelings without an argument?
What feelings? Nothing I think, believe, choose, say, or do is ever determined by any feelings. I have no use for feelings as a basis for any behavior or choices, especially not mine, and certainly not anyone else's sentimental nonsense.

It was you who responded to a comment I made to vegetariantaxidermy that expressed a similar view of success, which I regard as based on political prejudice, not an objective or rational understanding of what success is. Financial success is just one kind of success but hardly the whole of what success means. I certainly would not regard someone who had accumulated lots of wealth, but led a miserable and unhappy life a success.
My bad on the mixup of who you are.
Thanks for clearing that up. I was wondering what you were basing your very judgmental views of "rcsaunders" on, EXACTLY, as I NEVER saw just about ANY 'thing' that you were saying here.
Scott Mayers wrote: Thu Mar 31, 2022 3:10 am I know you are presenting a biased stance against discussing 'success' as some other(s) have.
AGAIN, what are 'you' basing this VERY JUDGMENTAL view on, EXACTLY?

1. I ENVISION it is 'you', "scott mayers", who is the one WITH the VERY BIASED STANCE here. And, as such 'you' "SEE/IMAGINE" 'this' in "others". 'Projection' as some call this phenomena.

2. HOW and WHY would ANY one "take a stance against' 'success', itself?

'Success', in a more basic form, is just achieving or accomplishing what one sets out to achieve or accomplish. So, with that definition, WHO could possibly 'take a stance against' 'that'?
Scott Mayers wrote: Thu Mar 31, 2022 3:10 am So I know you are not exactly being cordial by your derailment. How does it matter whether one excludes trivial emotional evaluation about what one interprets is 'success'? Everyone knows that monetary value IS at least THE major measuring units describing one's WORTH and by the implicit value of very meaning of "worth" as it is used in economics describes 'success' in terms of dollars.
Using 'monetary value' as ANY 'measuring unit' for one's WORTH, SHOWS and REVEALS just how TWISTED and DISTORTED the adult human being REALLY BECAME back in those days when this was being written.

"vegatariantaxidermy's" 'tongue in cheek and sarcasm' comment in that first response here could NOT be MORE RELEVANT and CORRECT. As PROVED True by your response here now.

EVEN AFTER "rcsaunders" POINTED OUT and SHOWED just how Wrong, (and REALLY IDIOTIC), it was to have a view of 'success' in relation to 'money', itself, 'you' STILL go and SAY what 'you' did here "scott mayers".

Now, either 'you' are REINFORCING "vegetariantaxidermy's" views of "americans", or 'you' REALLY ARE BLINDED by your OWN ALREADY GAINED and WELL MAINTAINED BELIEFS about 'money' and human beings' self-worth.
Scott Mayers wrote: Thu Mar 31, 2022 3:10 am Thus, Forbes describes Bill Gate's "worth" as 134.1 billion USD, and is the standard of 'success' that Veritasium's host was understood to be talking about.
"derek muller" might have been talking about 'success', and how much of 'success' is related to ACTUAL 'hard work' or 'luck' and HOW the people with 'more success' in relation to money. But, the gist of the video was about how the people who have obtained 'more money', or are 'successful', IN REGARDS TO 'money', have DELUDED "themselves" that it was because of 'hard work' MORE than it was to 'luck'. But, the WHOLE POINT of the video had NOTHING to do with 'success' in relation to ANY so-called "standard" of how much money one human being called "bill gates" has GREEDILY acquired AT ALL.

The so-called "standard" within that video in regards to 'success' MIGHT HAVE BEEN in relation to 'money', itself. But this is PROBABLY BECAUSE the one presenting the video is:

1. An adult human being. And,

2. An adult human being, from what is called "the americas". Which was the VERY POINT "vegetariantaxidermy" MADE. And, who had NEVER even had to watch the video to have arrived at the true, right, AND correct conclusion.
Scott Mayers wrote: Thu Mar 31, 2022 3:10 am [Note that as of yet, there is no thumbs down to 440K "likes". If it was a contentous political argument rather than fact, we'd at least see SOME disagreement. But we don't and you are the one in opposition.
To me, there is absolutely NOTHING AT ALL to DISAGREE WITH nor ARGUE AGAINST.

That person was just PRESENTING some views. They NEVER presented them as if there was ANY to 'argue' AGAINST nor FOR.

And, as "commonsense" POINTED OUT it was some 'thing' that was ALREADY UNDERSTOOD ANYWAY.
Scott Mayers wrote: Thu Mar 31, 2022 3:10 am As to the topic's derailment, you are expressing 'feelings' when you merely assert something you believe without substance or proof.
1. This is NOT correct AT ALL.

2. It is 'you', "scott mayers", who WANTS to 'assert' some 'thing', but which 'you' will NOT just come out and ASSERT 'it'. And, the reason 'you' will NOT is because 'it' is some 'thing', which 'you' BELIEVE without ANY ACTUAL PROOF FOR.
Scott Mayers wrote: Thu Mar 31, 2022 3:10 am You merely expressed your disagreement as though it were matter-of-factly obvious. So what function are you serving other than to smear any debate by an innoculous insult to ward off anyone daring to take this serious? YOU are thus being 'political' restrictively, not caring about the context of the actual presentation's argument one way or the other.
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Re: Is Success Luck or Hard Work?...

Post by Walker »

Since you can’t always get what you want, success is getting what you need, which you can’t accurately predict until you’re lucky enough to try sometimes.

:|
Scott Mayers
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Re: Is Success Luck or Hard Work?...

Post by Scott Mayers »

simplicity wrote: Thu Mar 31, 2022 10:51 pm
Scott Mayers wrote: Tue Mar 29, 2022 6:58 amWhat are your thoughts?
It has been known for---ever that the harder you work, the "luckier" you become.Think about this way...

Let's say you own a home. Your house [like all houses] requires a certain amount of maintenance and upkeep. Joe really isn't too keen on doing such things [as he would rather spend his time contemplating his navel] so he just takes care of the critical maintenance issues [broken hot water heater, etc.]. Bob, otoh, is a seriously hard worker and not takes care the regular issues which crop-up with any home, but he also takes a preventative approach by taking care of any nascent issue on a regular basis.

Predictably, Bob's house performs wonderfully as he rarely has to deal with any maintenance surprises whereas Joe is always having to deal with this or that [serious] issue in his house. Is Bob just lucky?

The same applies to pretty much everything in life, health, finances, relationships, etc. Of course, there are the occasional bizarre occurrences that take place [weather, war, accidents where you just happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time], and although these can be fatal, most of life is just routine things that anybody who is willing to work hard can decidedly tip the scale]of success in their favor.

It should be no surprise to anybody that 99.9% of the most successful folks out there [however you wish to define it] are very hard workers.
This is absurdly 'simple minded', as per your own self reflected choice in your avatar name here.

(1)Anyone who works is not unemployed. Thus ANY statistic regarding economic success by default of those who work versus those lacking even the chance to work and who inherits poverty at birth is missing. You also skipped over inheritances which account for much of those 'successes' in terms of wealth and power. It is rational that one percent of the population can own more wealth than 99% of the population. Thus you could technically have a statistic that ignores that 1% making ANY work seem more likely to 'succeed' than not. [After (2) below, since that 1% are the most empowered in capitalists systems, THEY would be the arbiters of what constitutes economic wealth and would most certainly WANT ...no NEED to encourage the 99% of the population to accept the lowest standard of survival though "hard work"; the 'harder' you work.] Obviously if you exclude what you don't want to include on the top, that 1% seems so trivial to be noticed for taking it away even though it is absurdly significant.

(2)The 'harder' one works would need to be qualified to be measurable. Who gets to decide when someone 'works hard'? Other than that 1% wealthiest who would no doubt pat themselves on the back as 'hard workers', virtually all people looking back at their 'successes' interpret themselves as 'hard working'. Given you have to be interpreting that the 'successful' gets to define what 'success' means, you could never be wrong by default of that bias alone. I mean, would you even pay attention to the one who is an 'economic failure' (impoverished) telling you that (s)he worked hard but was kept down and prevented from succeeding,...that the harder they worked, the more money they made their employer and given the employer is a 'good capitalist', he rationally recognized the VALUE of such desperate workers to have NO CHOICE but to accept their 'slavery'. Note that if you were even remotely correct, there would never have been labor disputes, no unions would have ever existed, and everyone would be economically comfortable.

This proves that the exact opposite is true in our society: the 'hard workers' are what enables capitalists to profit from best when they are paid the LEAST for the GREATEST OUTPUT in 'hard work'.

You completely bipassed the video given it proved that "Luck plays the bigger role is success." [the thesis] You'd need to dismantle that argument first or you defeat the point of this thread's reference to it.

The story of Cain and Abel (which is literally the 'cane' [since it represents using violence or force to compel] and 'able' [since it represents the capacity or ability to 'work hard'], as the classic example is a lesson stating how FORCE by the 'owner or lord of the lands' is FAVORED by default but that the God (the 'good') favored the sacrifice represented by his 'ability' to work hard. That is, even in ancient times, they recognized that the ones who worked hard were valued but not rewarded. And if they appealed to be 'good' (in God's favor), the hard worker, though will get punished in life for their SACRIFICE of hard work, they will be rewarded in an afterlife by God showing his appreciation. [This was a coniving myth most likely expressed best BY the enforcers (as Cain was) to demand why their slaves should work hard: while one may not SEEM to be happy and successful, the religious story is used to MOTIVATE the slave class (majority) to accept their fate with a promise of reward later for their hard work. ]

So your 'simplistic' example is unconvincing and not logically compelling. And why, by the way, would you start off with assuming two equally wealthy people who owns a home? If one is satisfied with their home and do not want for more, do not 'need' it, (s)he is not NOT 'working hard' but uncomparable. The 'socialist' would be sufficiently satisfied with the house. If the other one is 'working hard', if not merely expending energy, he is most likely acting as an 'entrepreneur' which begs whether there is even a necessity to have whatever undefined goal this person would want other than to be greedy. A thief can "work hard" as much as an entrepreneur of some venture, in which a 'successful' thief WOULD prove to be a 'good entrepreneur' if not caught.
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