No War Has Ever Been A War For Freedom

[RCSaunders]

No war in the history of the world has been a war for freedom. All wars are fought by governments and their only purpose is to satify the ambitions and interests of those governments.

Those who participate in wars, having swallowed the lie that it is for freedom (or their country, or rights, or their way of life) may believe they are fighting for freedom, and even use those words, but every war only determines (if anything) who will be the government and all governments are oppressive. The only thing anyone is fighting for in any war is the interests of their current government and possibly to choose who their next oppressors will be.

In the end it is never freedom anyone is fighting for, because almost no one really want's freedom. In my article,
"Freedom Not For Everyone," I wrote:

Most Do Not Want To Be Free

What most people want is not freedom. What most people want is security, safety, guarantees, protection from change, and comfort. Most have no confidence in their own ability to live their lives successfully. For the truly free, there are no guarantees in life, and one must face every risk on their own, either learning how to deal with them, or suffering the consequences. For the truly free, nothing is provided and everything must be acquired or achieved by one's own effort. For those who love freedom, these are freedom's virtues, but for most people, the very virtues of freedom are a source of terror.

Most people will not choose to be free because the collectivists and statists are offering exactly what most people desire. Where freedom offers responsibility, the state offers relief from that responsibility. "Don't worry about making provisions for your old age, the state will take care of it." Where freedom offers the reality of risk and danger, the state offers guarantees of safety. "Don't worry about natural disasters, the government will take care of everything and protect you from them. Don't worry about the dangers of the world, the government will pass laws that will make everything safe, your job, your food, your medicine, even driving your car."

How Slavery Is Put Over

It's not called slavery, it's called, "social order," when individuals are forced to comply with rules made by others. It begins small. It's only a little oppression, but it's, "for a good cause," but once a principle is violated, whatever the justification, there is never a limit to that violation. Once the the freedom principle is violated, there is no end of the restrictions and demands on one's choices and life that will follow.

What begins as, "we cannot allow people to starve," ends as, "we cannot allow people to be uneducated, not have good housing, be poor in their old age, not have health care, not have a job, not be protected from scurrilous marketers, not be "safe" on the highway, business, homes, bathrooms, or ... (supply your favorite thing no one should have to go without, whether they earn it or not). You can have all of these things and more, at least until the slaves who are supplying them realize they are slaves; you can have them, but you cannot have them and freedom too.

The Price Of Freedom

The price of freedom is not having all those things. It is the price most are unwilling to pay. It means not having the government supply your education, health care, expensive drugs, and guaranteed retirement income. It means not being guaranteed no one will ever say something mean to or about you. It means there are no guarantees. It means you will live in a world of danger, temptation, and risks. It means you will be responsible for every aspect of your own life from the time you reach adulthood until you die. It means, if you mess up your life, you and only you will suffer the consequences.

That is the price of freedom. It is the price most people are not willing to pay.

It is not freedom most people really want, and for most, the idea of being truly free would be terrifying. It is mistake to call any war a war for freedom or to pretend it is freedom that is the objective of any political system or ideology. All wars are fought for the sake of governments and all political systems are forms of social engineering which are supposed to produce the kind of society most people think they would like.

No government system will ever produce true freedom, which most do not want anyway, and governments, and their wars, will never be eliminated, but no individual has to support or participate in them.

Only individuals can be free, but very few want it, and less will choose to make themselves free. The free are always exceptional.

H.L. Mencken said it as well as anyone ever has:

The fact is that the average man's love of liberty is nine-tenths imaginary, exactly like his love of sense, justice and truth. He is not actually happy when free; he is uncomfortable, a bit alarmed, and intolerably lonely. Liberty is not a thing for the great masses of men. It is the exclusive possession of a small and disreputable minority, like knowledge, courage and honor. It takes a special sort of man to understand and enjoy liberty—and he is usually an outlaw in democratic societies.
[Baltimore Evening Sun (12 February 1923)]

And my whole view of politics agrees with him:

I believe in only one thing: liberty; but I do not believe in liberty enough to want to force it upon anyone.

[Walker]

What most people want is not freedom. What most people want is security, safety, guarantees, protection from change, and comfort. Most have no confidence in their own ability to live their lives successfully. For the truly free, there are no guarantees in life, and one must face every risk on their own, either learning how to deal with them, or suffering the consequences. For the truly free, nothing is provided and everything must be acquired or achieved by one's own effort. For those who love freedom, these are freedom's virtues, but for most people, the very virtues of freedom are a source of terror.

Sounds a lot like owning a small business. Be your own boss. Some even take a big, unsafe risk to do so.

There used to be a lot of small businesses in the USofA. Mom and Pop shops.

A lot of immigrants open a small business. They luxuriate in the freedom to do so, even with all the red tape.

The government’s response to Covid killed off a lot of those.

Remember? The big corporate stores were “allowed” to do business. Small business was forbidden to do business.

They had some half-assed excuse why, but we know why.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

Probably because 'freedom' is only a political term, and anyone who uses it is only being a mouthpiece for self-serving politicians?

[Walker]

No government system will ever produce true freedom, which most do not want anyway, and governments, and their wars, will never be eliminated, but no individual has to support or participate in them.

Refusing to kill on behalf of the government made Muhammad Ali bigger than boxing, so they took away his prime years for stepping out of line. However, within his special limitations, he could still persevere to be free.

Freedom is a state of mind that prompts free actions, and the nature of those actions is determined by the conditions. Even in a concentration camp, King Rat (movie) could exercise freedom, moment-to-moment.

- The US Constitution does not declare conditions to be a God-given right.
- It does declare the freedom to pursue liberty to be a God-given right.
- Man-made conditions cannot take away the right to that pursuit.
- Man-made conditions can facilitate that pursuit.

[trokanmariel]

No war in the history of the world has been a war for freedom. All wars are fought by governments and their only purpose is to satify the ambitions and interests of those governments.

Those who participate in wars, having swallowed the lie that it is for freedom (or their country, or rights, or their way of life) may believe they are fighting for freedom, and even use those words, but every war only determines (if anything) who will be the government and all governments are oppressive. The only thing anyone is fighting for in any war is the interests of their current government and possibly to choose who their next oppressors will be.

In the end it is never freedom anyone is fighting for, because almost no one really want's freedom. In my article,
"Freedom Not For Everyone," I wrote:

Most Do Not Want To Be Free

What most people want is not freedom. What most people want is security, safety, guarantees, protection from change, and comfort. Most have no confidence in their own ability to live their lives successfully. For the truly free, there are no guarantees in life, and one must face every risk on their own, either learning how to deal with them, or suffering the consequences. For the truly free, nothing is provided and everything must be acquired or achieved by one's own effort. For those who love freedom, these are freedom's virtues, but for most people, the very virtues of freedom are a source of terror.

Most people will not choose to be free because the collectivists and statists are offering exactly what most people desire. Where freedom offers responsibility, the state offers relief from that responsibility. "Don't worry about making provisions for your old age, the state will take care of it." Where freedom offers the reality of risk and danger, the state offers guarantees of safety. "Don't worry about natural disasters, the government will take care of everything and protect you from them. Don't worry about the dangers of the world, the government will pass laws that will make everything safe, your job, your food, your medicine, even driving your car."

How Slavery Is Put Over

It's not called slavery, it's called, "social order," when individuals are forced to comply with rules made by others. It begins small. It's only a little oppression, but it's, "for a good cause," but once a principle is violated, whatever the justification, there is never a limit to that violation. Once the the freedom principle is violated, there is no end of the restrictions and demands on one's choices and life that will follow.

What begins as, "we cannot allow people to starve," ends as, "we cannot allow people to be uneducated, not have good housing, be poor in their old age, not have health care, not have a job, not be protected from scurrilous marketers, not be "safe" on the highway, business, homes, bathrooms, or ... (supply your favorite thing no one should have to go without, whether they earn it or not). You can have all of these things and more, at least until the slaves who are supplying them realize they are slaves; you can have them, but you cannot have them and freedom too.

The Price Of Freedom

The price of freedom is not having all those things. It is the price most are unwilling to pay. It means not having the government supply your education, health care, expensive drugs, and guaranteed retirement income. It means not being guaranteed no one will ever say something mean to or about you. It means there are no guarantees. It means you will live in a world of danger, temptation, and risks. It means you will be responsible for every aspect of your own life from the time you reach adulthood until you die. It means, if you mess up your life, you and only you will suffer the consequences.

That is the price of freedom. It is the price most people are not willing to pay.

It is not freedom most people really want, and for most, the idea of being truly free would be terrifying. It is mistake to call any war a war for freedom or to pretend it is freedom that is the objective of any political system or ideology. All wars are fought for the sake of governments and all political systems are forms of social engineering which are supposed to produce the kind of society most people think they would like.

No government system will ever produce true freedom, which most do not want anyway, and governments, and their wars, will never be eliminated, but no individual has to support or participate in them.

Only individuals can be free, but very few want it, and less will choose to make themselves free. The free are always exceptional.

H.L. Mencken said it as well as anyone ever has:

The fact is that the average man's love of liberty is nine-tenths imaginary, exactly like his love of sense, justice and truth. He is not actually happy when free; he is uncomfortable, a bit alarmed, and intolerably lonely. Liberty is not a thing for the great masses of men. It is the exclusive possession of a small and disreputable minority, like knowledge, courage and honor. It takes a special sort of man to understand and enjoy liberty—and he is usually an outlaw in democratic societies.
[<i>Baltimore Evening Sun</i> (12 February 1923)]

And my whole view of politics agrees with him:

I believe in only one thing: liberty; but I do not believe in liberty enough to want to force it upon anyone.

The starting point, is the question of the freedom, based on the reaction to the manipulation. You're reacting to the manipulation, offered by governments and state, but are also accepting the absence of proof of premise that society and freedom are kindness.

In general, the disposition of people is that they have to use speed, which informs the absence of universal explanations. Ergo, the paradigm of inevitability of what was previously stated, in which manipulation is criticised, but, without the peace of analysing the use of data.

The resolution, is for philosophy to embody the macro personal.


My personal Achilles heel, is the universal tolerance not translating to written page, in which the logic of the upset is that the page is an ally of daylight.

For Cate Blanchett, because of her Indiana Jones 4 role being a secret destiny of this manifestation.

[RCSaunders]

What most people want is not freedom. What most people want is security, safety, guarantees, protection from change, and comfort. Most have no confidence in their own ability to live their lives successfully. For the truly free, there are no guarantees in life, and one must face every risk on their own, either learning how to deal with them, or suffering the consequences. For the truly free, nothing is provided and everything must be acquired or achieved by one's own effort. For those who love freedom, these are freedom's virtues, but for most people, the very virtues of freedom are a source of terror.

Sounds a lot like owning a small business. Be your own boss. Some even take a big, unsafe risk to do so.

There used to be a lot of small businesses in the USofA. Mom and Pop shops.

A lot of immigrants open a small business. They luxuriate in the freedom to do so, even with all the red tape.

The government’s response to Covid killed off a lot of those.

Remember? The big corporate stores were “allowed” to do business. Small business was forbidden to do business.

They had some half-assed excuse why, but we know why.

Sadly true. I personally know some immigrants who are still running successful businesses--Cambodian, Mexican, and Vietnamese, who are still doing pretty well, because they really appreciate that freedom means extreme hard work one has to achieve themselves. But such are becoming very rare.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

What most people want is not freedom. What most people want is security, safety, guarantees, protection from change, and comfort. Most have no confidence in their own ability to live their lives successfully. For the truly free, there are no guarantees in life, and one must face every risk on their own, either learning how to deal with them, or suffering the consequences. For the truly free, nothing is provided and everything must be acquired or achieved by one's own effort. For those who love freedom, these are freedom's virtues, but for most people, the very virtues of freedom are a source of terror.

Sounds a lot like owning a small business. Be your own boss. Some even take a big, unsafe risk to do so.

There used to be a lot of small businesses in the USofA. Mom and Pop shops.

A lot of immigrants open a small business. They luxuriate in the freedom to do so, even with all the red tape.

The government’s response to Covid killed off a lot of those.

Remember? The big corporate stores were “allowed” to do business. Small business was forbidden to do business.

They had some half-assed excuse why, but we know why.

Sadly true. I personally know some immigrants who are still running successful businesses--Cambodian, Mexican, and Vietnamese, who are still doing pretty well, because they really appreciate that freedom means extreme hard work one has to achieve themselves. But such are becoming very rare.

How does that mean 'freedom'? Please explain. And as an annoying old fart, how do YOU exist? Govt pension? How does that make you 'free'? Do you think you should be 'free' to drive around with dementia as you please, putting everyone else at risk?

[RCSaunders]

No government system will ever produce true freedom, which most do not want anyway, and governments, and their wars, will never be eliminated, but no individual has to support or participate in them.

Refusing to kill on behalf of the government made Muhammad Ali bigger than boxing, so they took away his prime years for stepping out of line. However, within his special limitations, he could still persevere to be free.

Freedom is a state of mind that prompts free actions, and the nature of those actions is determined by the conditions. Even in a concentration camp, King Rat (movie) could exercise freedom, moment-to-moment.

- The US Constitution does not declare conditions to be a God-given right.
- It does declare the freedom to pursue liberty to be a God-given right.
- Man-made conditions cannot take away the right to that pursuit.
- Man-made conditions can facilitate that pursuit.

I think you have confused the Declaration of Independence with the Constitution. There is nothing in the Constitution about freedom to pursue anything, much less liberty, and God is never mentioned. The word liberty only shows up thrice, in the Preamble, and once each in the fifth and fourteenth amendments, never in the body of the Constitution. The word freedom only appears once, in the first amendment. The purpose of the Constitution was never to establish freedom, but to create a government with the power to raise taxes to pay off the revolutionary war debt. The Bill of rights was only included to get the thing ratified.

The huge amount of freedom enjoyed by Americans in the first hundred years after the totally unnecessary Revolutionary war was in spite of the government (which begin its first oppressive taxation less than year after the Constituition was ratified, leading to the whisky rebellion), because the government was so small. That freedom did not last long and was mostly gone after the First World War.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

So just ignore me then. Easy to respond to a moron like Walker.

[RCSaunders]

Sounds a lot like owning a small business. Be your own boss. Some even take a big, unsafe risk to do so.

There used to be a lot of small businesses in the USofA. Mom and Pop shops.

A lot of immigrants open a small business. They luxuriate in the freedom to do so, even with all the red tape.

The government’s response to Covid killed off a lot of those.

Remember? The big corporate stores were “allowed” to do business. Small business was forbidden to do business.

They had some half-assed excuse why, but we know why.

Sadly true. I personally know some immigrants who are still running successful businesses--Cambodian, Mexican, and Vietnamese, who are still doing pretty well, because they really appreciate that freedom means extreme hard work one has to achieve themselves. But such are becoming very rare.

How does that mean 'freedom'? Please explain. And as an annoying old fart, how do YOU exist? Govt pension? How does that make you 'free'? Do you think you should be 'free' to drive around with dementia as you please, putting everyone else at risk?

When my wife and I rode out Harley's, we'd be asked why liked those big noisy machine so much. Your question, "how does that make you free," reminded me of that. The answer is the same to both questions, "If have to ask, you cannot understand."

But don't worry about it. You don't need to understand. No one is going to force you be free.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

Sadly true. I personally know some immigrants who are still running successful businesses--Cambodian, Mexican, and Vietnamese, who are still doing pretty well, because they really appreciate that freedom means extreme hard work one has to achieve themselves. But such are becoming very rare.

How does that mean 'freedom'? Please explain. And as an annoying old fart, how do YOU exist? Govt pension? How does that make you 'free'? Do you think you should be 'free' to drive around with dementia as you please, putting everyone else at risk?

When my wife and I rode out Harley's, we'd be asked why liked those big noisy machine so much. Your question, "how does that make you free," reminded me of that. The answer is the same to both questions, "If have to ask, you cannot understand."

But don't worry about it. You don't need to understand. No one is going to force you be free.

Probably the most pathetic response I've seen on here. Fuck off you senile old kunt.

[RCSaunders]

How does that mean 'freedom'? Please explain. And as an annoying old fart, how do YOU exist? Govt pension? How does that make you 'free'? Do you think you should be 'free' to drive around with dementia as you please, putting everyone else at risk?

When my wife and I rode out Harley's, we'd be asked why liked those big noisy machine so much. Your question, "how does that make you free," reminded me of that. The answer is the same to both questions, "If have to ask, you cannot understand."

But don't worry about it. You don't need to understand. No one is going to force you be free.

Probably the most pathetic response I've seen on here. Fuck off you senile old kunt.

I just tried to delete the post, because I agree with you. I really was not careful in reading your question. I apologize.

It's late here. I try a fairer response tomorrow.

[Ansiktsburk]

If you’re born in a posh family you want freedom, and you will have a high probability to do what you want with your life. if you’re not you want a stable life. Broadly. And guys that starts war wants to make some in the own group or the group they root for wealthier and therefore freer. So maybe yes.

[Walker]

- For those who can’t think and don’t know what they’re talking about, here’s a clue*:

...

More objective thoughts about the gist of your OP.

- I’ve heard that WWII POW’s did their best to behave appropriately, to maintain proper military form, as conditions allowed.
- For those who did, this implies that the army had succeeded in molding individual identity, into a strong group identity.
- (Were the bones of this identity set, before the military put in its two cents?)
- It’s an identity that’s so strong, it allows for an improved individual identity.
- The improvement is called, Character.
- Psychologically, to identify one’s actions, as a necessity of the group, is beneficial to the individual, for it takes the heat, to a degree.
- When the group requires egregious actions, the Individual also gets to learn what a red line is, and the consequences of how to individually deal with that.
- The right action is called, Character.



* Is this fair to folks? I hope not. Why should only The Party enjoy the perks of hypocrisy?

[RCSaunders]

Sounds a lot like owning a small business. Be your own boss. Some even take a big, unsafe risk to do so.

There used to be a lot of small businesses in the USofA. Mom and Pop shops.

A lot of immigrants open a small business. They luxuriate in the freedom to do so, even with all the red tape.

The government’s response to Covid killed off a lot of those.

Remember? The big corporate stores were “allowed” to do business. Small business was forbidden to do business.

They had some half-assed excuse why, but we know why.

Sadly true. I personally know some immigrants who are still running successful businesses--Cambodian, Mexican, and Vietnamese, who are still doing pretty well, because they really appreciate that freedom means extreme hard work one has to achieve themselves. But such are becoming very rare.

How does that mean 'freedom'? Please explain. And as an annoying old fart, how do YOU exist? Govt pension? How does that make you 'free'? Do you think you should be 'free' to drive around with dementia as you please, putting everyone else at risk?

[To make amends, maybe, for my previous post.]

First I have to say I never answer questions of a personal nature, especially about finances in any public place (for privacy reasons) and avoid asking such questions of anyone else. It's why I would never be a part of Fartbook, Twatter, or any other so-called social media.

Freedom means freedom to do, not freedom to have provided by anything or anyone else. It is freedom when someone is able to choose to do what they believe is in their own interest, to their survival, their life, and however they choose to pursue it. There is no one way for anyone to live, but to be free one must be the sole determiner of how they live their life and all they are and all the have, good or bad, must be the result of their own choices and effort. There are no guarantees, and freedom does not mean automatic success. It only means if one chooses to succeed and is willing make the effort and pay the price, success is possible.

What freedom will be for any individual will be different for every one, because every individual will have their own unique aspirations and goals and what they choose to do with their life. In the same society, some will find freedom that others will regard as oppression because one only wants to do things they are free to do in that society, while the other has ambitions prohibited in that society. To be free, the second individual will have to find a different society.

Those immigrant entrepreneurs I described earlier as being free, are examples of those who are able to live their lives by their own choice and effort, not looking for or desiring anything from anyone else except what others find of value in their services and products. Earning one's own way without either dependence on others or restrictions imposed by others is freedom.

There was an ironic truth in my earlier response. Most people really do not want to be free. It terrifies them. They need the comfort of believing they belong to something, some group (their heard or hive perhaps), that will keep them safe and provide whatever they are not certain they can provide themselves. They have so little confidence in themselves, they are terrified of making all their decisions on their own, longing for some leader or expert or authority to tell them what to do. It is very difficult to explain to those who really don't want freedom exactly what freedom is. They don't really want to know.