THought for the Day: Nuclear Deterent

[Sculptor]

Again, you completely miss my point. And you seem to be projecting your unfounded assumptions as to what you think my views are.

Your point is too simple.
Reality is not so easily reductable

Ok. So what is the "reality" of Russia's invasion of Ukraine? Looks like an illegal invasion to me, same as the US invasion of Iraq.

I would think so, but I am no expert in International Law.
When it comes down to it I image the Russian state will point to a failure of the Minsk accords as the causa bellum.

My personal view is that "war" and "law" are always contradictory.

[henry quirk]

But I cannot do it alone

Yeah, you probably can't.

[Dontaskme]

Word is out on the street that what he’s doing, is killing folks and turning others into refugees.

The people of Ukraine should not have put up any resistance then. I'm trying to figure out why people didn't sit tight within the privacy of their own homes and just allow the situation to unfold according to Putins plan without resisting it. Ukraine must have already known they would not get help from their NATO neighbours, except to be gifted some weapons that they could at least use to protect themselves, which was an aggressive move of the gifters. All that move did, was to add even more fuel to the fire.. So it didn't make sense to resist.


I'm not an expert in geopolitics, but it seems, according to my research, that Ukraine lied to Russia about their agreement to not join forces with the capitalist western lifestyle, so surely they must have already known they were sitting ducks for what the consequences of their broken agreement with their sister country would have meant.

Liberating folks from their life, their homes, and their possessions.

Putin did not ask people to leave their home and make them self a homeless refugee. The people fled in fear because they already knew they'd lied about their agreement.

If you trust the translations, he said all is proceeding according to plan.

I'm only going by what Putin said in his own words, he talked about liberation not enslavement.
It's the people themselves who have reacted by leaving their life styles, homes and possesssions, when they didn't have to.

The fork in the road is appeasement.
What does appeasement mean?

It means incremental, reactive and minimal response, if any, to proactive aggression that includes murder, in the hopes that will end the aggression.

It takes two opposite opposing sides to make a war happen.

Russia gave plenty of time for negotiation but none was reached by NATO. That to me meant Nato is also an aggressor because they lied, which is manipulative deception, and that's not the mindset of a peaceful treaty.

But look at me, telling you about appeasement, when that's the crux of your solution to end the aggression of Russia towards Ukraine, and towards humanity in the form of the civilians who are innocent of geopolitical machinations.

I think you are being a bit one sided. It takes two opposing opposite sides to make a war. What part of that do you not undertstand?

There are always two sides to every story.

If the Russian people are not fleeing their homes because of the regime they were born into, then why are the Ukrainians making them selves homeless when they do not have to?

If the Russian people are having horrible oppressive lives, then why is no one in the world helping them, or standing by them? if the Russian people are slaves in their own land, then we are ALL, slaves...it's really that simple and logical. How can some people be slaves and not others, that makes no rational sense whatsoever.

Unless ALL of us are free, then none of us are free. And until we can live in peace and unity as one human family, then their is no hope for humanity. That's just logical common sense.

If I cannot live peacefully in my own private house, minding my own business and not harming anyone else, then I would rather be dead and gone from this absolute total clown planet that is humanity. I mean, who would even want a life like that except a sadistic insane idiot.

To me it seems humans are so stupid, that they do not even know how stupid they are, and that's why I am not holding my breath anytime soon that people will actually discover they are more intelligent than they give themselves credit, they just need to grow the fuck up.


I personally would rather be DEAD forever, than live in a reality where I am forced to kill another life just so I can survive, that to me is a sick way to live. Let the whole world burn in the hell of it's own making, for all I care. I'm better off dead.
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[Dontaskme]

Why the fuck would I care who runs the show when it is always rigged against ordinary people?

Cuz you're a free man and you ought not be ruled.

I know you feel uncomfotable answering the hard questions Henry, but I live in hope you will be able to answer the hard questions one day.

Question for you...is, why do you need to remind yourself you are free man under no ruler, if you already know with absolute certainty that you are free man, surely ought that be enough?

So who is it that informs itself it's a free man and how would this who know what free even means unless it had been enslaved to fully comprehend the comparison?

If you are as free as you'd like to think you are, then so is everyone else in the world, so why would there be a need to remind? Are you here now just reminding others that they ought not to be ruled? which means they are not as free as they believe they are?

You do not have to answer this of course...

Another question just spontaneously popped...If you had been born in Ukraine, why not stay and fight for your only safe haven your own private home, and die that way, rather than leave your house making yourself vulnerable to attack, only to die anyway, helplessly on the streets like a gutter rat defending what it believes is it's own territory ...Why not just die in the comfort of your own home, that's what I'd do.

You could have been born to any country...no one owns this planet, unless we are nothing more than like all the other sentient animals struggling and fighting for resources and territory...oh wait!

Why are these people leaving their house...doesn't that put a burden on other countries to then find them somewhere else to live, and to feed them. Is that fair to place that burden onto others...when they already had their own homes. Would you give your spare room at your home up for a refugee?

What a stupid world we have organised for ourselves... I'm sitting here alone in my own house, that is fully paid for, with 3 spare empty bedrooms while other people are sleeping like gutter rats in smelly cold underground bunkers. This world is insane. How can I sleep at night.. believing I am free.

[Sculptor]

But I cannot do it alone

Yeah, you probably can't.

You are such a joke.

[Dontaskme]

All Ukraine had to do was to surrender to Putins special operation, the people were given ample time to decide what to do.

Nato would not agree with the plan during long negotiations. Nato had the chance to reconcile with Russia, but chose not to.

Now we are in a situation where Ukraine is going to have to surrender eventually, so really, they would have been better surrending from the very start before the first shot was fired.

Why, because who is going to surrender first now the battle has started? The Ukrainian people or Putin?

I think we all know deep down the answer to that question. The endgame, unfortunately, is that we will all end up going down with the same sinking lifeboat.

If Putin really is as crazy as he is being painted to be, then it's fairly obvious that he's going to take down the whole world along with him. If Putin surrenders, then he knows that means he will spend the rest of his life in prison, and to be frankly honest, I do not think he is going to allow that to happen, I really hope I'm wrong.

These are just my own personal opinions. I'm not saying my opinion is why the world is in the mess it is in right now, only Putin knows that for sure.

So here we are again, back to the brink of yet another world war...as if the other two didn't quite settle the plan. Well I guess there is nothing else to do in life, so might as well play at being real life action men and soldier on with that.


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[Dontaskme]

Disarmament is not a choice - it is necessity.

Every country must work together, to disarm, there is no alternate, else we all be doomed to go down on the same sinking titanic, lifeboats included.

Thing is, it's probably too late now. There is no cure for human stupidity, if there was, then we'd have stopped breeding years ago.

Every time you fart out a human being, you are potentially creating another suicidal crazy person. Life is as mad as a box of frogs, you never know what you are going to get.

[henry quirk]

But I cannot do it alone

Yeah, you probably can't.

You are such a joke.

And you're the punchline.

[henry quirk]

DAM,

You said: I’m trying to understand why some of the people in Ukraine talked about fighting for their country, and yet at the same time fled their home.

What's to understand? Some folks fight, other folks run.

Look, it's not complicated: some folks get the hell out of Dodge (to stay alive), some cooperate with the invaders (becuz mebbe they sympathize with the invader's cause or, again, just to stay alive), sone are patriotic and fight to preserve their nation, some small few are just ornery (they don't give a flip about nation or which iteration of The State is rearn' up, they simply won't be bulldogged).

Note I'm not judgin': just layin' out reasons.

You asked: why do you need to remind yourself you are free man under no ruler(?)

I don't. The punchline asked a question: I gave him an answer.

[Dontaskme]

What's to understand? Some folks fight, other folks run.

Look, it's not complicated: some folks get the hell out of Dodge (to stay alive), some cooperate with the invaders (becuz mebbe they sympathize with the invader's cause or, again, just to stay alive), sone are patriotic and fight to preserve their nation, some small few are just ornery (they don't give a flip about nation or which iteration of The State is rearn' up, they simply won't be bulldogged).

But if we're always running away from death, then where is the freedom in that, why not just accept death as an inevitablity no matter where we go, or where we are. Yes, we can extend our lives to live one more day, but death is always waiting. So we may live another day only to die another day. Can we ever outrun death. Is there a real place anywhere on this planet where we can escape death. Does flooding another country in our thousands to escape our own country the only route to sanctuary. Yes, for awhile, it's all temporal instability really, and we call that freedom, and a win win.

We're not free Henry, while we're hot footing it out of dodge, we're never free. Life is horror, I hate being alive.

One of the women who gave birth to her baby in the air-raid shelter, looked at her newborn child and said welcome to hell.
We're laying our eggs in shit, and most of us seem to be ok with that. I'm thinking, I'd rather not be born.

Anyways, it is what it is, I suppose, if we think we are winning here then I guess it must be true.

[henry quirk]

We're not free Henry

I guess it depends on how a body defines freedom.

As I reckon it: I'm always free. I self-direct, self-rely, am self-responsible.

You, with a different idea of freedom, see it different.

[Dontaskme]

We're not free Henry

I guess it depends on how a body defines freedom.

As I reckon it: I'm always free. I self-direct, self-rely, am self-responsible.

You, with a different idea of freedom, see it different.

Yes, it's different that's all. I see what I see,and you see what you see.

But to me, it's never worth the philosophizing.. because everyone sees their world in a unique way according to their own perception of it.

I just do not like being alive, but what choice do I have, life is living me, I'm not living life. I can kill myself, but even that thought is disgusting, and why I do not like being alive. It's all just too sick for my liking, this whole living business just to die in the end, just totally pointless and stupid. I do not even known why we bother to endorse it, it beats me why people think it's a great idea.

[Dontaskme]

So is the Nuclear deterent is so good, why the fuck has this not effective against Russia?

Or is it because Putin knows very well the west cannot use such a weapon without the end of times?
And since the west seem wholly reliant on nukes, they have no other options?

Sculptor....I know you think I'm just an idiot who talks bollocks most of the time, but will you put that aside and answer some of my ideas?

One idea came to me this morning...and that is ....I do not think Ukraine will win this war started by Putin, just because of the sheer size of the Russian army. The war in my opinion is about Democracy verses Autocratic leadership...which cannot be won by opposing or participating in it to begin with.

I think the only way to end the death and destruction that is going on in Ukraine ... will be when Ukraine surrenders and stops resisting the invasion. I do not think the fire, any fire can ever be put out by throwing more petrol on it.

Like in any fight, the only way a fight ends is for one side to surrender defeat and allow for neutrality to happen.

Better to surrender now, rather than to keep the fire burning which can only mean no end to the lives that are going to be lost in the fire. Putin already knows no other country can help stop this war, else risk inflaming the situation beyond no return...Putin knows that only Ukraine herself can stop this war by surrending to the invasion..

Only within the neutrality of surrender will the fog of war be lifted and only then can a peaceful settlement be allowed to work itself out ..though peaceful dialog.

In any fight, one side always has to surrender, for their to be a stop to the fight, so my logic is it's always better to surrender sooner rather than later. . because later could mean death for the resister.

I guess what I'm trying to say...is that if no one surrenders, then we will all die. Think about that...this is a fight we're all in, it's not just a one sided fight, which is impossible.

Putin's not daft, he knows he will never be able to invade a NATO country, he's only taken on this operation because he knows Ukraine is defenseless against him and his army. I really do not think for one minute he would have invaded if he thought it would fail.

Also, listen to what NATO is saying to Russia, it's saying surrender...so all that needs to happen is surrender.

What happens next, will work itself out...but while the fire is constantly being stoked, then there is no chance for the situation to be worked out.

Sometimes we just have work things out gently, without cutting our noses off to spite our face.


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[Sculptor]

So is the Nuclear deterent is so good, why the fuck has this not effective against Russia?

Or is it because Putin knows very well the west cannot use such a weapon without the end of times?
And since the west seem wholly reliant on nukes, they have no other options?

Sculptor....I know you think I'm just an idiot who talks bollocks most of the time, but will you put that aside and answer some of my ideas?

One idea came to me this morning...and that is ....I do not think Ukraine will win this war started by Putin, just because of the sheer size of the Russian army. The war in my opinion is about Democracy verses Autocratic leadership...which cannot be won by opposing or participating in it to begin with.

I think the only way to end the death and destruction that is going on in Ukraine ... will be when Ukraine surrenders and stops resisting the invasion. I do not think the fire, any fire can ever be put out by throwing more petrol on it.

Like in any fight, the only way a fight ends is for one side to surrender defeat and allow for neutrality to happen.

Better to surrender now, rather than to keep the fire burning which can only mean no end to the lives that are going to be lost in the fire. Putin already knows no other country can help stop this war, else risk inflaming the situation beyond no return...Putin knows that only Ukraine herself can stop this war by surrending to the invasion..

Only within the neutrality of surrender will the fog of war be lifted and only then can a peaceful settlement be allowed to work itself out ..though peaceful dialog.

In any fight, one side always has to surrender, for their to be a stop to the fight, so my logic is it's always better to surrender sooner rather than later. . because later could mean death for the resister.

I guess what I'm trying to say...is that if no one surrenders, then we will all die. Think about that...this is a fight we're all in, it's not just a one sided fight, which is impossible.

Putin's not daft, he knows he will never be able to invade a NATO country, he's only taken on this operation because he knows Ukraine is defenseless against him and his army. I really do not think for one minute he would have invaded if he thought it would fail.

Also, listen to what NATO is saying to Russia, it's saying surrender...so all that needs to happen is surrender.

What happens next, will work itself out...but while the fire is constantly being stoked, then there is no chance for the situation to be worked out.

Sometimes we just have work things out gently, without cutting our noses off to spite our face.


.

Sun Tzu said in his Art of War, " never fight a battle you cannot win, and never engage in a war that you can only lose".
The Ukraine helped itself into this mess and the West helped it get there. It has been a mistake to fete the EU and Western interests, because the West can only let it down.
The war cannot be won, but the peace might be winnable.
The best thing for Ukraine to do is to lay down the weapons and offer them selves as POWs. IN the period that follows the population should engage in widespread civil disobedience,
It will not be long before Putin having saved face and won his war, will have to withdraw his troops or continue to face crippling sanctions; a humanitarian disaster; and massive costs in prisons and policing.
He will leave with the mostly Russian speaking Separatists states and the Ukraine will go back to business as usual.

[Dontaskme]

So is the Nuclear deterent is so good, why the fuck has this not effective against Russia?

Or is it because Putin knows very well the west cannot use such a weapon without the end of times?
And since the west seem wholly reliant on nukes, they have no other options?

Sculptor....I know you think I'm just an idiot who talks bollocks most of the time, but will you put that aside and answer some of my ideas?

One idea came to me this morning...and that is ....I do not think Ukraine will win this war started by Putin, just because of the sheer size of the Russian army. The war in my opinion is about Democracy verses Autocratic leadership...which cannot be won by opposing or participating in it to begin with.

I think the only way to end the death and destruction that is going on in Ukraine ... will be when Ukraine surrenders and stops resisting the invasion. I do not think the fire, any fire can ever be put out by throwing more petrol on it.

Like in any fight, the only way a fight ends is for one side to surrender defeat and allow for neutrality to happen.

Better to surrender now, rather than to keep the fire burning which can only mean no end to the lives that are going to be lost in the fire. Putin already knows no other country can help stop this war, else risk inflaming the situation beyond no return...Putin knows that only Ukraine herself can stop this war by surrending to the invasion..

Only within the neutrality of surrender will the fog of war be lifted and only then can a peaceful settlement be allowed to work itself out ..though peaceful dialog.

In any fight, one side always has to surrender, for their to be a stop to the fight, so my logic is it's always better to surrender sooner rather than later. . because later could mean death for the resister.

I guess what I'm trying to say...is that if no one surrenders, then we will all die. Think about that...this is a fight we're all in, it's not just a one sided fight, which is impossible.

Putin's not daft, he knows he will never be able to invade a NATO country, he's only taken on this operation because he knows Ukraine is defenseless against him and his army. I really do not think for one minute he would have invaded if he thought it would fail.

Also, listen to what NATO is saying to Russia, it's saying surrender...so all that needs to happen is surrender.

What happens next, will work itself out...but while the fire is constantly being stoked, then there is no chance for the situation to be worked out.

Sometimes we just have work things out gently, without cutting our noses off to spite our face.


.

Sun Tzu said in his Art of War, " never fight a battle you cannot win, and never engage in a war that you can only lose".
The Ukraine helped itself into this mess and the West helped it get there. It has been a mistake to fete the EU and Western interests, because the West can only let it down.
The war cannot be won, but the peace might be winnable.
The best thing for Ukraine to do is to lay down the weapons and offer them selves as POWs. IN the period that follows the population should engage in widespread civil disobedience,
It will not be long before Putin having saved face and won his war, will have to withdraw his troops or continue to face crippling sanctions; a humanitarian disaster; and massive costs in prisons and policing.
He will leave with the mostly Russian speaking Separatists states and the Ukraine will go back to business as usual.

Yeah, I do agree with your response. That's why I appealed to your opinion because I know you are one of a few intelligent posters on this forum. I like intelligent discussion, so thanks for your sensible response.

I totally agree with it.

We make our own mess, and only we can clean up the mess we make..if we do not clean it up, we will just keep making more and more until we all drown in it. All we have to do is choose to clean up the mess, as opposed to making more of it.

No one can argue with the amount of nuclear bombs we now have in our possession, we are fools to think otherwise.
Back during world war two, only america had nuclear bombs...but now we are all stuck between a rock and a hard place of our own making....if we all burn it's because collectively we have chosen that fate...